List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R) Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Current contract status (Updated 18/10/24) : Total 39 Players -...
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Monocle said:
I look at it this way if the Tin Rattlers 🔵⚪️🔵⚪️ do keep tanking at the rate they are and we do finish second last for me Curtin is a very good get.

Good God aren’t the Tin Rattlers an absolute embarrassment.
So many first round picks on their list and still that remain in s**t city.
That what happens to the psychic of an organisation when they constantly rely on hand outs and begging for survival.

All semblance of pride and spirit is expunged. They are like the second generation kids from well fare assistance families, comes a point when the work ethic gene becomes dormant.
Click to expand...
psyche
 
Godfather32 said:
How do we make it happen?
You imagine we'll need pick 1 and probably 3 to make sure of it.
Click to expand...
You need North to get pick 3 in compensation for Mckay leaving, then you need to trade your future first for pick 2, giving you picks 1 and 2.

Reasons for trading your future first.
1a. The top of next years draft looks to be dominated by Vic Metro boys (ok so O'Sullivan boards in Melbourne, but is from Koroit).
1b. There aren't any West Australian rated at the very top.
 

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briztoon said:
You need North to get pick 3 in compensation for Mckay leaving, then you need to trade your future first for pick 2, giving you picks 1 and 2.

Reasons for trading your future first.
1a. The top of next years draft looks to be dominated by Vic Metro boys (ok so O'Sullivan boards in Melbourne, but is from Koroit).
1b. There aren't any West Australian rated at the very top.
Click to expand...

This could be an option however I also think that if we do manage to get pick 5-6 from the Swans and North get Sanders but only an end of Round 1 compo for McKay then I’d be inclined to offer the Sydney pick to Hawks and a second rounder. It’s the Demons I fear would take Curtin and if he’s not there I think they’d look at Caddy. Hawks would still most likely walk away with Watson and bank a second rounder for their troubles.

Key to this is the Barrass deal. Sydney probably wouldn’t give up a first rounder without something back let alone a second rounder as well.

What if we picked up 2+ million of his four year deal? That might change their minds.

Thoughts?
 
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ThePuma #9 said:
This could be an option however I also think that if we do manage to get pick 5-6 from the Swans and North get Sanders but only an end of Round 1 compo for McKay then I’d be inclined to offer the Sydney pick to Hawks with our second rounder. It’s the Demons I fear would take Curtin and if he’s not there I think they’d look at Caddy. Hawks would still most likely walk away with Watson and bank a second rounder for their troubles.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

If we really want Curtin it will take something like this. Pick 19 would be a big price to pay as I don’t think Ports second would do it.
 
How come at draft time everybody, including the media, knows which kids certain clubs prefer or intend to draft with their first pick? I would have thought it would be better to hide your intentions and plans if you were a club. Even to the point of making a fake show of interest in some kids we are not interested in just to sow doubt and confusion. If we do have a real hard on for Curtain then lets not make sure everybody else knows about it.
 
Hook461123 said:
If we really want Curtin it will take something like this. Pick 19 would be a big price to pay as I don’t think Ports second would do it.
Click to expand...
Ports second won’t do it. We could get creative though.

We could offer to pay 2 million of Barrass four year contract. They get Tommy for 300-350k a year and we trade pick 19 and 36 with them for 22 & 24.

Give 22 to Hawks and keep 24 for ourselves.
 
Deplorable trumpster said:
How come at draft time everybody, including the media, knows which kids certain clubs prefer or intend to draft with their first pick? I would have thought it would be better to hide your intentions and plans if you were a club. Even to the point of making a fake show of interest in some kids we are not interested in just to sow doubt and confusion. If we do have a real hard on for Curtain then lets not make sure everybody else knows about it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, last two years the AFL bloke (Twomey?) has got the top ten correct within a day of the draft. Maybe it's due to live pick swaps. Everyone is open about who they want which allows the trust to roll back a few selections if required.
 
If we can sell our first pick for two top 10 picks then i am all for it. The only reason why it is even potentially possible is the hysteria around this kid Reid. Is he really the AFL version of an 18 year old LeBron? Do the physical capabilities and performances of this kid really suggest that he is that much better than everybody else?

Two picks significantly dilutes the risk of buying a lemon. Just because everybody agrees that Reid is the best 17 year old in the country is not a guarantee of anything. Lets not forget that at this same point in time in years gone past players like Paddy McCartin, Tom Boyd, Jonathan Patton, Jack Watts and Harley Bennell were considered the best 17 or 18 year olds in the country (before anybody points it out i already realise Bennell was not a Number 1 pick but that is because he was taken by GC before he was even in a draft but would have been the Number 1).

None of these kids were considered long shots or wild cards when they were taken Number 1. They were unanimously considered the best in their year group at the time, even though many people now probably think with hindsight bias that it was obvious they would be duds. And Watts and Bennell had similar levels of hype around them to Reid.

My point being that unanimous industry opinion is often wrong when it comes to 17 and 18 year olds. And when i see the kind of hysteria i am seeing around Reid i would rather take advantage of it and sell out of it (if i have the Number 1 pick) than buy into it and in doing so dilute the risk of buying a lemon with a top 5 pick (which is bigger than what most people on here think it is). Sell hysteria and buy value should be a guiding principle. Reid is more likely to be not as good as the hysteria suggests than he is to be better than it.
 
ThePuma #9 said:
Ports second won’t do it. We could get creative though.

We could offer to pay 2 million of Barrass four year contract. They get Tommy for 300-350k a year and we trade pick 19 and 36 with them for 22 & 24.

Give 22 to Hawks and keep 24 for ourselves.
Click to expand...

That would be awesome but too much. Maybe we could pay some salary for pick 5 and swap both our seconds for their seconds. Give hawks one and we get a pick in the 20’s and Curtin.
Swans get 19.
 
Hook461123 said:
That would be awesome but too much. Maybe we could pay some salary for pick 5 and swap both our seconds for their seconds. Give hawks one and we get a pick in the 20’s and Curtin.
Swans get 19.
Click to expand...
Sorry i left Swans first out when I typed it but yes that’s what I essentially meant. We offer to pay a big portion of his contract for their first rounder and also ask them to trade both their seconds for ours.

If Hawks would agree we’d go to the draft with 1,3,24 &38
 

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Deplorable trumpster said:
If we can sell our first pick for two top 10 picks then i am all for it. The only reason why it is even potentially possible is the hysteria around this kid Reid. Is he really the AFL version of an 18 year old LeBron? Do the physical capabilities and performances of this kid really suggest that he is that much better than everybody else?
Click to expand...
Nope! But # 9+ # 10 gives us 2 average players this year.

Deplorable trumpster said:
My point being that unanimous industry opinion is often wrong when it comes to 17 and 18 year olds. And when i see the kind of hysteria i am seeing around Reid i would rather take advantage of it and sell out of it (if i have the Number 1 pick) than buy into it and in doing so dilute the risk of buying a lemon with a top 5 pick (which is bigger than what most people on here think it is). Sell hysteria and buy value should be a guiding principle. Reid is more likely to be not as good as the hysteria suggests than he is to be better than it.
Click to expand...
There's often a lot more to it than just #1 is the best. #1 Is usually a safe choice who can be locked in for 10 years at a reasonable level. #3 for example might be a better player but with off field issues or lacking kicking ability etc.
 
briztoon said:
You need North to get pick 3 in compensation for Mckay leaving, then you need to trade your future first for pick 2, giving you picks 1 and 2.

Reasons for trading your future first.
1a. The top of next years draft looks to be dominated by Vic Metro boys (ok so O'Sullivan boards in Melbourne, but is from Koroit).
1b. There aren't any West Australian rated at the very top.
Click to expand...
Don't mind the sound of that at all actually.
 
briztoon said:
You need North to get pick 3 in compensation for Mckay leaving, then you need to trade your future first for pick 2, giving you picks 1 and 2.
Click to expand...

I still think we will be shit again next year and will end up with Pick 1 in 2024.

Draft watchers like yourself would be able to say what is the better package? Reid + Curtin

Or Reid + Pick 1 2024

I’m not afraid of picking up VM kids if they are clearly the best kid in the draft. And at the same time I would hope we learn from Geelong and court Curtin while he is playing for NM….
 
A lot of shade getting thrown at Tinglish by nuffies who either have never seen him play, or are so worried we're going to trade pick 1 for him they they're insecure and want to downplay how good he is.

I wouldn't trade pick 1 for him, absolutely not. I wouldn't trade any pick for him, given he's so close to Free Agency.

As Thorne said previously, if it's gun to your head trade for him this year or miss out, surely we just walk.




All that said, he's a fantastic player. Anyone who says otherwise is a clown. He's currently the highest ranked ruckman in the AFL by the Flemington straight, and as far as ranking points go, he is the highest ranked player in the entire league, averaging 128 points per game.

This season, AFL.priddis ranks him 📈

  • Elite for Disposals, marks, kicks & fantasy points.
  • Above Average for Goals, Tackles, Handballs, hitouts and hitouts to advantage.

By Comparison, Bailey averages 78 ranking points per game, and is
  • Elite in zero categories,
  • Above average in handballs, clearances and hitouts,
  • Average in everything else.


English is so clearly ranked higher than some of the competitions better regarded ruckman in Gawn, Grundy, Darcy, Goldstein, O'Brien etc.. with the next best performed this season being Jarrod Witts.

I'd sign him up in a heartbeat in 12 months time. If we did, at that point i'd probably trade Bailey (who's trade currency should've ripened quite well by that point) and carry on developing Barnett + whatever new rookie ruckman we add.

No, i'm not exactly keen on trading Bailey, but English is still easily the superior ruckman, and if it only costs us cash only to upgrade Williams, plus getting a likely decent draft pick back in return for him i'd totally do it. That's just sensible list management. English is only just now starting to enter his prime. He's got a good 5-6 seasons left of dominating.
 
Dark Sharks said:
A lot of shade getting thrown at Tinglish by nuffies who either have never seen him play, or are so worried we're going to trade pick 1 for him they they're insecure and want to downplay how good he is.

I wouldn't trade pick 1 for him, absolutely not. I wouldn't trade any pick for him, given he's so close to Free Agency.

As Thorne said previously, if it's gun to your head trade for him this year or miss out, surely we just walk.




All that said, he's a fantastic player. Anyone who says otherwise is a clown. He's currently the highest ranked ruckman in the AFL by the Flemington straight, and as far as ranking points go, he is the highest ranked player in the entire league, averaging 128 points per game.

This season, AFL.priddis ranks him

  • Elite for Disposals, marks, kicks & fantasy points.
  • Above Average for Goals, Tackles, Handballs, hitouts and hitouts to advantage.

By Comparison, Bailey averages 78 ranking points per game, and is
  • Elite in zero categories,
  • Above average in handballs, clearances and hitouts,
  • Average in everything else.


English is so clearly ranked higher than some of the competitions better regarded ruckman in Gawn, Grundy, Darcy, Goldstein, O'Brien etc.. with the next best performed this season being Jarrod Witts.

I'd sign him up in a heartbeat in 12 months time. If we did, at that point i'd probably trade Bailey (who's trade currency should've ripened quite well by that point) and carry on developing Barnett + whatever new rookie ruckman we add.

No, i'm not exactly keen on trading Bailey, but English is still easily the superior ruckman, and if it only costs us cash only to upgrade Williams, plus getting a likely decent draft pick back in return for him i'd totally do it. That's just sensible list management. English is only just now starting to enter his prime. He's got a good 5-6 seasons left of dominating.
Click to expand...

My only question is the value of rucks with the way the game is going. I can only think of one premiership that’s had a superstar ruckman in the last decade (Melbourne). The top two sides at the moment are running trash through the ruck (sorry Scotty). Should we be putting $1m/year of our salary cap in that position? That being said it is still very tempting to be able to get the number 1 ruck without giving up picks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Rowan18 said:
Yeah, last two years the AFL bloke (Twomey?) has got the top ten correct within a day of the draft. Maybe it's due to live pick swaps. Everyone is open about who they want which allows the trust to roll back a few selections if required.
Click to expand...
Goes to #1 club: who are taking? It doesn't matter if everyone knows, no one can gazump you.

Okay, "player X".

Goes to club with pick 2: I'll tell you who pick #1 is if you tell me who you'll take at 2....

Rinse, repeat.
 
pantskyle said:
As I've said before, Eagles really super like Curtin and do want him. They are inclined to look local again.
Click to expand...

Looking at one latest power ranking our 19 drops to 25. Sanchez and Hardeman fall around 25. And Clay Hall.

Can see us definately focusing in WA talent with later picks.
 
briztoon said:
You need North to get pick 3 in compensation for Mckay leaving, then you need to trade your future first for pick 2, giving you picks 1 and 2.

Reasons for trading your future first.
1a. The top of next years draft looks to be dominated by Vic Metro boys (ok so O'Sullivan boards in Melbourne, but is from Koroit).
1b. There aren't any West Australian rated at the very top.
Click to expand...
Realistically though that future first could well be pick 1 again, Zero chance anyone flogs off a future first knowing you're waist deep in a rebuild and a near certainty for bottom 4 and a better chance than not of bottom 2
 
briztoon said:
You need North to get pick 3 in compensation for Mckay leaving, then you need to trade your future first for pick 2, giving you picks 1 and 2.

Reasons for trading your future first.
1a. The top of next years draft looks to be dominated by Vic Metro boys (ok so O'Sullivan boards in Melbourne, but is from Koroit).
1b. There aren't any West Australian rated at the very top.
Click to expand...

And we only draft WA kids?
 
Obeanie1 said:
Looking at one latest power ranking our 19 drops to 25. Sanchez and Hardeman fall around 25. And Clay Hall.

Can see us definately focusing in WA talent with later picks.
Click to expand...
I'll be pissed if we take Clay Hall. He's a possession monkey. At that range, I'd prefer to be look at a KPD, KPF, or top line flankers like Lual. There was a vic country KPF kid who got added to the squad late. I'd be looking at someone like him for a later pick.
 
ThePuma #9 said:
Ports second won’t do it. We could get creative though.

We could offer to pay 2 million of Barrass four year contract. They get Tommy for 300-350k a year and we trade pick 19 and 36 with them for 22 & 24.

Give 22 to Hawks and keep 24 for ourselves.
Click to expand...

Upgrading our 36 and 38 to the Swans 22 and 24 as part of a deal could work. They have an academy kid ranked mid to late 20's.
 
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