List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew, Baker Requested Trades - Barrass, Darling Current contract status (Updated 18/9/24) : Total 41 Players (Pending Trades) - Main List (35) Rookie List (4) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2028 (2) : Liam Duggan (11/12/96) - Signed a 4 year...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

www.bigfooty.com

 

[ziad]

Sorry i've been busy. If you have any questions just flick me a personal message. Getting to the point where I can't start posting certain things publicly.

Police on to you as well? Or are you just thinking footy stuff.

 

[Obeanie1]

I don't really like it probably to early to draft Moir on this year`s form ..

Highly rated youngster who has had played his final junior year with a hip complaint. Similar to Tholstrup who has slid due to back issues and missed some champs games. These guys were ranked top 5 picks 12 months ago.

Sometimes the top ranked kids have a down final year due to injury.

And the Pie Man does like those quality kids who slide due to injury.

Its exactly what you do risk a pick in the mid 20's on IMO. Previous top 5 players who have slid due to niggling injuries in their final u18 year.

 

[Obeanie1]

Moir will 100% be at a SA Club

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Why?

 

[WCE_phil]

Moir's attack on the ball and man has been really lacking. I'm sure part of this is due to his hip complaint but you can't put it all down to that. His kicking being a lot more hit and miss, sure, a hip complaint can have a major effect there but he just doesn't go hard enough. For all his faults one of Gaff's amazing abilities has been to push through adversity and pain and be able to play and before the 6,6,6 rule, stand rule and the career saver boots he was an elite player whilst doing that. I would not be risking a top 30 pick on Moir. If I was the WCE he wouldn't be on my draft board at all. A classy small who has slid but still performed but looks to be more just a small forward from SA is Jack Delean. He would be who I would take with that sort of pick.

Tholstrup is an interesting scenario. Is he sacrificing his game and playing seniors has he been hidden in plain sight. That's a very big maybe but for all that i've seen he looked a better, more damaging player at 16 then he has the past 12+ months. To say he's regressed would be harsh, maybe a little on belief. He is a hard nut but will he make it at the top level. I'm really not sure anymore and for all my hope that a lot of these guys would have star years at HF and really elevate the grouping of top picks i've not seen it from any of them other than Duursma in the back half of the year. Again I wouldn't be risking a pick on Tholstrup.

Clubs, scouts, recruiters and others will have varying opinions on players and it seems much more varied this year than years past. There will be guys towards the end of clubs top 20's on their draft boards who if they aren't picked by that club aren't selected in the national draft at all.

Word is already getting out about who clubs like, even later picks but there looks to be some serious risers and someone like Zakostelsky could do a James Van Es and really climb draft boards after the combine. Has absolute elite speed and is coming from further back.

 

[WCE_phil]

85cm standing vertical and 7 foot wingspan. If he can play, even just a bit there is a shit load to work with there. Is an absolute lump too.

 

[Free Agent]

Plucking randoms from shopping centres is an interesting method of talent identification

Inspired if it comes off

Nothing lost if it doesn’t (assuming we determine it’s not worth pursuing before we add him to the list as a cat B)

I heard the retail store is not happy about it. They use to get him to stock and refill the top shelves at 211cm it is quite handy but now that store will have to buy a ladder and climb up themselves.

Once it got out that we recruiting tall retail staff Woolworths won't let our recruiters inside anymore. They saying they don't want to have to buy ladders as it's not practical and are keeping a very close eye on all of there tall staff members.

Haha could just imagine this now.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Hardeman is a very west coast type pick. The problem is you end up with too many of this sort of player. He doesn't have elite speed, run and carry and isn't an elite user of the ball.

He's not slow, he has good but not great skills but does the club really need a player that's probably going to peak somewhere between cole and duggan?

He's a real reach for me at 19. There are players that are 100% crossed off my list that are rated 15-30 who I just don't want. Certain red flags I just go no, won't make it at afl level. But we need to look forward and how the game is progressing. We need our HB's to be able to defend but they then need an elite quality. Whether that is run, carry and average disposal, elite disposal or great defensively with a hugely penetrating kick then sure, but for a player who to my mind is just solid i'd rather go down a different path.

100% aligned here. I was thinking something between Duggan and Luke Edwards (not as slow).

Even if he is cleaned up his ball use by foot to make it at AFL level he's not the sort of player WC need.

Eventually West Coast has got to stop picking backward wide receiver mids/ flankers. You end up with a squad there can't win enough of their own ball, lack team mates who work hard forward of the ball to make space and inevitably these sorts of players get turned going back defensively.

 

[WCE_phil]

100% aligned here. I was thinking something between Duggan and Luke Edwards (not as slow).

Even if he is cleaned up his ball use by foot to make it at AFL level he's not the sort of player WC need.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

I rate his ball use better than probably a lot of others do but it's still nowhere near elite. I mentioned before but in the champs he actually has some really good kicks to the right spots just the team up the field were so horrendously poor they made the kicks look worse than they are.

As a more pure lockdown defender ready to be a best 22 player and win his position most weeks in 5 years, I can see it. But I wouldn't want to be using pick 19 on him.

He does speak very well and is a decent on field leader and takes instruction very well. I just don't see a very high ceiling.

To me this draft is more about the depth of talls and the ability to develop them as well as role players. If I were drafting for WCE and the players fall to the right picks I could very happily walk away with Reid, 3 talls and a small forward and be very confident in that being a very good draft haul.

 

[Keys]

Moir's attack on the ball and man has been really lacking. I'm sure part of this is due to his hip complaint but you can't put it all down to that. His kicking being a lot more hit and miss, sure, a hip complaint can have a major effect there but he just doesn't go hard enough. For all his faults one of Gaff's amazing abilities has been to push through adversity and pain and be able to play and before the 6,6,6 rule, stand rule and the career saver boots he was an elite player whilst doing that. I would not be risking a top 30 pick on Moir. If I was the WCE he wouldn't be on my draft board at all. A classy small who has slid but still performed but looks to be more just a small forward from SA is Jack Delean. He would be who I would take with that sort of pick.

Tholstrup is an interesting scenario. Is he sacrificing his game and playing seniors has he been hidden in plain sight. That's a very big maybe but for all that i've seen he looked a better, more damaging player at 16 then he has the past 12+ months. To say he's regressed would be harsh, maybe a little on belief. He is a hard nut but will he make it at the top level. I'm really not sure anymore and for all my hope that a lot of these guys would have star years at HF and really elevate the grouping of top picks i've not seen it from any of them other than Duursma in the back half of the year. Again I wouldn't be risking a pick on Tholstrup.

Clubs, scouts, recruiters and others will have varying opinions on players and it seems much more varied this year than years past. There will be guys towards the end of clubs top 20's on their draft boards who if they aren't picked by that club aren't selected in the national draft at all.

Word is already getting out about who clubs like, even later picks but there looks to be some serious risers and someone like Zakostelsky could do a James Van Es and really climb draft boards after the combine. Has absolute elite speed and is coming from further back.

Regardless of position, I want us to draft genuine competitors that won’t attack contests half arsed.

It’s why the descriptions of Moir don’t interest me much despite his skills and why Tholstrup is the opposite.

With the way the lack of depth is being described I can see us only taking 4 selections this year and giving someone like O’Neill a lifeline - especially if we don’t succeed in getting Robertson across

 

[eaglevision]

I rate his ball use better than probably a lot of others do but it's still nowhere near elite. I mentioned before but in the champs he actually has some really good kicks to the right spots just the team up the field were so horrendously poor they made the kicks look worse than they are.

As a more pure lockdown defender ready to be a best 22 player and win his position most weeks in 5 years, I can see it. But I wouldn't want to be using pick 19 on him.

He does speak very well and is a decent on field leader and takes instruction very well. I just don't see a very high ceiling.

To me this draft is more about the depth of talls and the ability to develop them as well as role players. If I were drafting for WCE and the players fall to the right picks I could very happily walk away with Reid, 3 talls and a small forward and be very confident in that being a very good draft haul.

Thanks for the great analysis Phil. RE: small forward is there even room for Ryan, Long, Brockman and Collard? Or do you see Collard playing further up the ground and complementing the others nicely? I’ve had my eye on him since the WACA game vs VicC but am aware of giving list spots to superfluous requirements whilst neglecting other areas of need. I’d also like to chase Goldy for a year or two if we genuinely believe in Barnett.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

85cm standing vertical and 7 foot wingspan. If he can play, even just a bit there is a s**t load to work with there. Is an absolute lump too.

Who is this?

 

[WCE_phil]

Regardless of position, I want us to draft genuine competitors that won’t attack contests half arsed.

It’s why the descriptions of Moir don’t interest me much despite his skills and why Tholstrup is the opposite.

With the way the lack of depth is being described I can see us only taking 4 selections this year and giving someone like O’Neill a lifeline - especially if we don’t succeed in getting Robertson across

Honestly I see plenty of draftable talents. There's just a lot less midfield options and the high ranked HF options haven't really come on.

I still think there's at least 80 players with at least 1 or a couple of high level AFL attributes to pick from. I'm really not a fan of two types of picks. 1. Players who don't go hard enough at the man and ball 2. Players with a low ceiling who don't look like they can elevate their game at the next level.

In Tholstrup's case going hard at the ball and man isn't the issue. But there has been a severe lack of development in his game. Can he really jump it up and was he just ready too early. I'm not sure, I just have too many players ahead of him for a top 30 pick now.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Moir is such an Eagles pick. Absolute horseshit this year but how good was he a year or two ago?

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Wouldn't mind Tholstrup and Moir if they slide to our 2 picks in the 30's.

 

[Convocation]

Who is this?

Eddie Maslic - potential Cat B signing

 

[Lia]

Sorry i've been busy. If you have any questions just flick me a personal message. Getting to the point where I can't start posting certain things publicly.

Your insights are very helpful for context, understanding etc thank you

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Sorry i've been busy. If you have any questions just flick me a personal message. Getting to the point where I can't start posting certain things publicly.

Thought you said after last season you were done ? Change of mind ?

 

[ziad]

Plenty of testing these days and data to inform recruiting. Aslo difficult to hide talent with the transparency and wide spread media coverage. What intreagues me is the complex multi factorial nature of assessing what is always potential. One intabgable is competativeness or whatever you call it. As a distant parallel I not the cyclist Mark Cavendish - the absolute greatest ever road sprinter on the world stage. He has far more wins in major events than any sprinter ever in a sport where data and testing is king. His lab data is absolute rubbish but we wins. Instinct and will to win is hard to test for.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Thought you said after last season you were done ? Change of mind ?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

 

[WCE_phil]

Thanks for the great analysis Phil. RE: small forward is there even room for Ryan, Long, Brockman and Collard? Or do you see Collard playing further up the ground and complementing the others nicely? I’ve had my eye on him since the WACA game vs VicC but am aware of giving list spots to superfluous requirements whilst neglecting other areas of need. I’d also like to chase Goldy for a year or two if we genuinely believe in Barnett.

Work on this perspective. This is a recruiters perspective.

When building a list you don't draft for now you draft for 5 years in the future. You also work on the perspective that 50% of the players you draft won't make it.

So from that perspective I see no issue in having that many smaller forwards on the list. You need at least 3 playing and you need two of them to be able to get up and down the ground well and apply pressure. So in my mind it's not an issue at all. I prefer another small forward to Collard but wouldn't be using pick 19 on either of them.

AFAIK club is more interested in Jordan Sweet (again)

In a perfect world you have 4 rucks, 9 KPP, 6 small/medium defenders, 5 small/mid sized forwards and 16 mids on your list of 40.

 

[WCE_phil]

Thought you said after last season you were done ? Change of mind ?

Offer that was too good to pass up (work/life and money) for a different club. Having a lot more input this year, particularly earlier on and in regards to trade targets. Not that I think the club I'm working for is likely to get any more than 1 out of their 100 potential trade targets over the line this year.

Some clubs are getting quite creative in regards to getting stuff on contract and not apart of the football department soft cap. It could come back to bite them in the arse but hey this is the AFL, until WA or SA clubs do it, it's probably fair game.

I'm out of the country all of January and Most of Feb so miss a lot of the offseason bullshit but looking forward to hopefully some Keys training reports.

I really, really don't have any plans to do it next year for any amount and will likely just go back to watching games and some SW footy. Next years WA draft prospects are not looking too crash hot and.

 

[eagles rule]

Highly rated youngster who has had played his final junior year with a hip complaint. Similar to Tholstrup who has slid due to back issues and missed some champs games. These guys were ranked top 5 picks 12 months ago.

Sometimes the top ranked kids have a down final year due to injury.

And the Pie Man does like those quality kids who slide due to injury.

Its exactly what you do risk a pick in the mid 20's on IMO. Previous top 5 players who have slid due to niggling injuries in their final u18 year.

Normally I like these sliding bargains but I noticed his stats on a Reserves game which his team won by 77 points and he had 6 disposals and kicked 1 goal ..I don’t know if he got inj but something seems wrong there ..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

85cm standing vertical and 7 foot wingspan. If he can play, even just a bit there is a s**t load to work with there. Is an absolute lump too.

To put into context, that standing vertical leap would put him equal 4th all time in combine testing- and he's already 211cm.

If he makes it, he's going to average 50 hit outs a game.

Vertical Jump Test​

rank	score (cm)	name	year
1	89	Aiden Bonar	2017
	89	Jordan Gallucci	2016
3	88 cm (34.5")	Marvin Baynham	2014
4	85 cm (33.5")	Dean Towers	2012

 

[Truckosaurus]

Not that I think the club I'm working for is likely to get any more than 1 out of their 100 potential trade targets over the line this year.

Say hi to Dodoro for us