List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2021 offseason edition

[Keys]

So the 2021 season is officially done and dusted.

It’s time now to fully turn our attention to the off season and what we can do through the trade period/draft to chase down Melbourne in 2022.

List and personnel changes have already been made and I’ll update this OP as and when any further changes are made.

As it stands these are our official list changes :

Out -
• Venables (R) - retired
• Vardy - retired
• Hutchings (R) - delisted
• Ah Chee (R) - delisted
• Ainsworth - delisted
• Johnson - delisted
• Collins (R) - delisted
• Brander - cluster****
• Cameron - retired/delisted not that it was officially acknowledged by the club
• Sheppard - retired

Inactive listed -
• Cole
• Chesser

In -
• Petrevski-Seton - traded for pick 52
• Chesser - Pick 14
• Hough - Pick 31
• Bazzo - Pick 37
• Williams (Jack) - Pick 57
• Clark - Pick 62
• Dixon - SSP
• Joyce - SSP
• Strnadica - SSP
• Naish - SSP

Players on main list - 37 (Including 2 inactive)
Players on rookie list - 7

Future trade picks :
In - Port Adelaide future 2nd
Out - Future 4th

Assistant Coaches :
• Out - Graham, Hickmott
• In - Schofield (Strategy and Stoppage), Knights (Midfield), Wiley (WAFL coach), Brennan (development)

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[The_Gambler]

Who is the clown that gave rotham a 3 year contract? People blast long contracts to gaff, McGovern and Kelly, but this is a guy who has never played an entire season in AFL and has been on the list for what 5 years?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Nisbett just strongly implied that Nelson will be delisted at the end of the year, given he’s out of contract.
Courtesy of Ben Cameron from Grandstand
“Trevor Nisbett says “I think so” when asked whether the players who went to the hip-e club have compromised their futures at the club.”

Nisbett must be feeling the heat from above.

Nelson was an auto delist either way.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Who is the clown that gave rotham a 3 year contract? People blast long contracts to gaff, McGovern and Kelly, but this is a guy who has never played an entire season in AFL and has been on the list for what 5 years?

Rotham deserved a 3 year deal he was playing well the last few seasons. Don't entirely blame him for his form, the coaching staff just haven't aided him much in his development. Same goes for Harry Edwards and a few others.

 

[Cuzz09]

I agree he wasn't suggesting we spend high draft picks on flankers, but the talk of using Yeo to fix a problem is benign. Maybe Yeo can build his fitness there, but my issue is with talk about fixing our defensive stocks.

When we watch footy shows on TV, they are mostly on a weekly cycle. The pundits mostly talk a week either side of the current day. What happened last game, what will happen next game. This is what the viewers want to hear. But there's another reality that doesn't get talked about much on the TV shows - the long game (or the big picture).

On a forum, the further you are away from the flag window, the more people should be talking about the long game. In the flag window, it's week to week stuff - who should be picked, do we need to trade anyone in, do we need to tweak the game plan etc. When we're on the rise, it's whether we need to draft in a hard body like Chick or Stenglein etc, but when you're at the further point away from the flag window, the long game needs to be discussed. People talking about wanting to make changes to improve performance next week shouldn't be taken seriously (not saying the said poster was doing this, but there's plenty on here who want to go gung-ho for top 8 next year).

Consider this:

1994 = flag
12 years
2006 = flag
12 years
2018 = flag

See the pattern? Let me expand that even further:

1994 = flag
1994 - 1999 = still haven't bottomed out and still think we can win a flag soon-ish. I remember going to the footy in maybe 96 and a first year player called Ben Cousins was the only player who gave a truck.
2000 - 2003ish = bottom out. Cousins is F?S, Judd at #3, and we snag Kerr and Cox late and rookie.
2006 = flag
2007 - wheels start to fall off
2008 - 2012ish - we bottom out and pick up NicNat and Gaff. Kennedy through the Judd trade.
2018 = flag

So the questions are;

1. How can we get back there before 12 years?
2. And how can we have sustained success once we get there? (i.e. 2 or 3 flags)

The answer is top end midfield talent sooner rather than later.

The rise from bottom 4 to flag window happens quickly. Three seasons if you have the right talent. Going into the next few drafts we have to decide what sort of players we want (i.e. must have elite disposal skills, speed and decision making also high on the list, and need 1x bull). When it gets to pick 30 and onwards, its best available. In that space we will find the flankers, small forwards, and ruckmen.

As early as this year we might find that half back flanker with a later 2nd round or early 3rd round pick. But I just don't care - because unless we jag a Fyfe type, it has little to do with whether it can, and how long it will take to get back to the flag window.

That's why I proposed we bring in a new rule of Once we win a flag the coach has 3 years to win another or we move him on.

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[Miguel Sanchez]

Who is the clown that gave rotham a 3 year contract? People blast long contracts to gaff, McGovern and Kelly, but this is a guy who has never played an entire season in AFL and has been on the list for what 5 years?

He played 19 out of 22 games last year, having won the club’s Best Emerging Talent the previous year.

He’s been out of form all year but let’s not pretend he’s a scrub lucky to be on a list.

 

[Chump Change]

That's why I proposed we bring in a new rule of Once we win a flag the coach has 3 years to win another or we move him on.

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I agree. We sack coaches to early into their careers and then hang onto them for too long at the end of their tenures. I think we also have this view that either coaches can coach or can't coach - meaning if they win a flag then they can coach under any circumstances, and if they don't have success with one group then they can't for another. The other thing we do is wait for them to be sacked. A 3 year agreement after a flag allows a lot of face saving. "He won a flag and he has a job until the flag window closes. Once the flag window closes we will change coaches". Allows dignity and respect.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Imagine if Hawthorn had that rule in the late 2000s.

 

[Chump Change]

Imagine if Hawthorn had that rule in the late 2000s.

3 years after they were in the flag window so an exception would be made. Because of the draft, that's an extremely rare situation.

Have a look at Hardwick. Great coach. Richmond's list is a victim of their own success though. All he'd doing is propping them up mid table where he doesn't get draft picks to compensate for declining stars.

Swans bucked the trend in 2012, and Geelong have been able to stay in the window without a rebuild. That's few and far between.

Like Hawks with Clarko, I wouldn't be renewing Hardwicks contract. He could get another job and have success somewhere else.

 

[The_Gambler]

He played 19 out of 22 games last year, having won the club’s Best Emerging Talent the previous year.

He’s been out of form all year but let’s not pretend he’s a scrub lucky to be on a list.

Who came second in next emerging talent? Jarrod Brander?

3 year contract for a guy who has not established himself in the team in 6 seasons and has played 33 games, averaging 13 disposals IS RIDICULOUS.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Who came second in next emerging talent? Jarrod Brander?

3 year contract for a guy who has not established himself in the team in 6 seasons and has played 33 games IS RIDICULOUS.

He played 19/22 games in his fifth season, which apparently doesn’t count as establishing yourself in the team or playing a whole season, when he was given the contract.

I’d keep going but we all know that once someone puts something IN CAPITAL LETTERS they automatically win the argument.

 

[Goroyals22]

Yes small defenders are not at the top of the shopping list. However they can be gained efficiently and not cost much at all.

D Rioli is a rfa this year and playing his best season ever at half back. Only got a 1 yr extension last time.

Long at the Saints also out of contract, likely would cost nothing to add. He has some mongrel and can play on the small forwards, still young.

Nelson is a rfa this year and I think / hope the club will encourgae him to look elsewhere. A team may look at him at no cost.

Rotham I can see being offered up. Same as Waterman. Witherden even a chance.

And then you have other opportunities at the rookie draft / SPP etc.

Our best picks are looking at mids and a ruck.

If you think nelson, rotham and waterman r worth anything then you must be on our lost management team.. u might get a late 4th for waterman.. the other two would be lucky to find a home


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[Miguel Sanchez]

3 years after they were in the flag window so an exception would be made. Because of the draft, that's an extremely rare situation.

Right so you’ve got a rule about moving on the coach three years after a flag but it doesn’t count if they’re close to another one. So would Chris Scott have been sacked in 2014? Would Longmire have been sacked the following year? Would Bevo have been sacked after 2019? He took his side to a GF two years later.

How about just have a rule where you decide whether the coach is the best man for the job and then act accordingly?

 

[ziad]

If you think nelson, rotham and waterman r worth anything then you must be on our lost management team.. u might get a late 4th for waterman.. the other two would be lucky to find a home


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some serious rose coloured glasses on here. the three wouldn't be starts in the WAFL

 

[Monocle]

Nisbett must be feeling the heat from above.

Nelson was an auto delist either way.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

You would certainly HOPE so.

 

[The_Gambler]

If you think nelson, rotham and waterman r worth anything then you must be on our lost management team.. u might get a late 4th for waterman.. the other two would be lucky to find a home


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On the list management team or the pod cast

 

[Chump Change]

1. Right so you’ve got a rule about moving on the coach three years after a flag but it doesn’t count if they’re close to another one. 2. So would Chris Scott have been sacked in 2014? 3. Would Longmire have been sacked the following year? 4. Would Bevo have been sacked after 2019? He took his side to a GF two years later.

5. How about just have a rule where you decide whether the coach is the best man for the job and then act accordingly?

1. Correct.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.

5. Those 3 coaches you have mentioned have all been good. But they are exceptions rather than the rule. This is a pure percentages game. Just as coaches instruct their team to force a stoppage, the percentage play is to move a coach on unless they are in the flag window. Also note that NONE of them have won another flag to date.

That rule would be great if it worked. But what we tend to do is hang onto flag coaches for too long, i.e. Simmo and Woosha.

Out of interest, how do you think this thing with Simmo will pan out? He has a team that can no longer compete for the flag. We are at the bottom of the ladder with hardly any young high draft picks. The last two rebuild have taken 12 years (to completion), this time (because the drop off has been so quick and decisive) it's still a minimum of 4-5 years before we get that fuzzy feeling that we are going places.

He's not going to last. He's a dead man walking. Some of us have known the play for 2 years already, you're probably still working it out.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

He's not going to last. He's a dead man walking. Some of us have known the play for 2 years already, you're probably still working it out.

You’ve known the play for two years already, yet on your rule he would have only gone at the end of last year?

I’m not arguing he shouldn’t go. I’m saying having a blanket inflexible rule is a stupid idea.

 

[30stm]

Rotham deserved a 3 year deal he was playing well the last few seasons. Don't entirely blame him for his form, the coaching staff just haven't aided him much in his development. Same goes for Harry Edwards and a few thers.

 

[Truckosaurus]

He played 19/22 games in his fifth season, which apparently doesn’t count as establishing yourself in the team or playing a whole season, when he was given the contract.

I’d keep going but we all know that once someone puts something IN CAPITAL LETTERS they automatically win the argument.

You can actually trump capital letters with a picture with a quote on it.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

What hurts coaches as well is the eternal optimism. Close to a flag, pushing for one.

What's wrong with honesty. The call should have been 3/4 through last year, "time for a rebuild".

Coach survives

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

You can actually trump capital letters with a picture with a quote on it.

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

Not out of the question, however if would be a stark break from most previous Drafts, if so many tall's went in the first 10.
At this stage I would agree Lemmey will be in the top 10 ( most likely top 3 ), as you say Champs will be critical to see how they all perform.





Looking forward to seeing how Scully will perform against WA when he may well have The Gunsslinger playing on him ( now that would be a tantalising match up ).


I would also like to see how Scully goes in the West Adelaide League side to assess how he performs against bigger stronger opposition.
Part of the problem with that idea, is that West Adelaide are just blessed with young talent, as currently Lemmey is already playing seniors for them and its hard to see them playing both the puppies, Scully and Lemmey, in the same line up, there again if they are good enough why the hell not.

If Scully has in fact grown to 205 then he is going to be a temptation to take early for some team.

Personally I like Keeler to I am a big fan, as IMO he has huge upside.

As for your comment about the melts here, if we took two tall's.

Actually I could live with it providing that we nailed both picks.

Sure the melts would be free flowing, however I think that most on the board ( even the apologists ) have finally now come round to the stark realisation that our list is just so shit, that it's going to take at least four years of astute drafting to fix the mess.

I think last years draft haul: Chesser, Hough, Bazzo, J Williams and Clark was year one of the rebuild, so three (maybe four ) drafts more at least to go, before the list reboot starts looking more robust.

We need help in all areas of the list profile and if we took another young ruck like Broadbent after we had already picked up a Lemmey, Scully, Keeler or Gunsslinger, I could live with that as there is merit in getting your tall's on the list in a rebuild, before you address your mids, as tall's tend to take a few more years to develop, that way your rebuilt group can come through together.

I really hope ROB does move on at seasons end and that we cast a wide net to ensure we get the best Head Recruiter possible after having canvassed the whole industry.

My worry is that we do the typical "West Coast" thing and promote from within, with out first having explored all possible options.
Would shit me no end if we did this.

I spoke with a Senior Footy Administrator at an AFL Club several years ago and he said the most important groups in any AFL Clubs structure to ensuring long term team success were - In this order:

The Recruiters.
The Medical Staff.
The Strength and Conditioning Staff.
The Coaches.

The Power Brokers, ie The Board, who run the entire show need to urgently review and overhaul every appointment below them.
Not quite sure Gibbs is the man to oversee this.

Russell Gibbs is a nice bloke who means well, but we need a new hard arsed Chairman with a pair of balls and a capacity to make tough calls as we had when Cransberg was Chairman of The Board.

Good to be an Organisation that has a strong moral compass and social standing in the wider community.

But not at the expense of on field performance.

If the current CEO and Board just put as much emphasis on the Clubs on field performances as they do our balance sheet, we would be in a much healthier position today.

All for picking up talls in this draft pool.

2022: Lemmey & Broadbent i expect 5-7 years for those blokes to find their feet
2023: x2 best available mids and fill a need, midfielders to find their feet 3-5 years
2024: x2 best available mids and fill a need, midfielders to find their feet 3-5 years
2025: Expecting finals before Tasmania **** the draft pool so target ready made players through trade of FA

By this time, we would have said good bye to Kennedy, Hurn, Shuey, Redden, Cripps, Nic Nat, Gaff and any other player that couldnt make it. Premiership window to be the target from 2027 and beyond.

 

[Wild Kelly]

1. Correct.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.

5. Those 3 coaches you have mentioned have all been good. But they are exceptions rather than the rule. This is a pure percentages game. Just as coaches instruct their team to force a stoppage, the percentage play is to move a coach on unless they are in the flag window. Also note that NONE of them have won another flag to date.

That rule would be great if it worked. But what we tend to do is hang onto flag coaches for too long, i.e. Simmo and Woosha.

Out of interest, how do you think this thing with Simmo will pan out? He has a team that can no longer compete for the flag. We are at the bottom of the ladder with hardly any young high draft picks. The last two rebuild have taken 12 years (to completion), this time (because the drop off has been so quick and decisive) it's still a minimum of 4-5 years before we get that fuzzy feeling that we are going places.

He's not going to last. He's a dead man walking. Some of us have known the play for 2 years already, you're probably still working it out.

Never change chump!

 

[Avalor]

Just watched East Perth vs Subi on streaming - what a heart- breaking 1pt loss in the very last second!
Again, very impressed with Subik Kuek - so much to work with, fast, athletic, agile and deadly accurate in front of goal. Had a bagful again today. Recruit him Eagles, don't stuff it up in the draft.

 

[Avalor]

some serious rose coloured glasses on here. the three wouldn't be starts in the WAFL

Troll alert!