List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2021 offseason edition

[Keys]

So the 2021 season is officially done and dusted.

It’s time now to fully turn our attention to the off season and what we can do through the trade period/draft to chase down Melbourne in 2022.

List and personnel changes have already been made and I’ll update this OP as and when any further changes are made.

As it stands these are our official list changes :

Out -
• Venables (R) - retired
• Vardy - retired
• Hutchings (R) - delisted
• Ah Chee (R) - delisted
• Ainsworth - delisted
• Johnson - delisted
• Collins (R) - delisted
• Brander - cluster****
• Cameron - retired/delisted not that it was officially acknowledged by the club
• Sheppard - retired

Inactive listed -
• Cole
• Chesser

In -
• Petrevski-Seton - traded for pick 52
• Chesser - Pick 14
• Hough - Pick 31
• Bazzo - Pick 37
• Williams (Jack) - Pick 57
• Clark - Pick 62
• Dixon - SSP
• Joyce - SSP
• Strnadica - SSP
• Naish - SSP

Players on main list - 37 (Including 2 inactive)
Players on rookie list - 7

Future trade picks :
In - Port Adelaide future 2nd
Out - Future 4th

Assistant Coaches :
• Out - Graham, Hickmott
• In - Schofield (Strategy and Stoppage), Knights (Midfield), Wiley (WAFL coach), Brennan (development)

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[briztoon]

Brisbane will still need roughly 300 points for Ashcroft if he goes @3, and 550 @2. They have no real way that I can see to get above that pick so its all about ending up with the best pick late draft (somewhere 3rd round) when everything works out.
briztoon you guys have a stable list and a few guys still on the fence am I right, is picking just the 3 players looking likely? Matching a high bid then two at the back end and then to have future picks rather than mid-late 2022 if given the option.

WCE being conservative still only likely take 4 ND selections so would we prefer a scenario of

• Brisbane #17 traded
• West coast #24 + 37 traded
• Giving us #1, #17, #19, #73 3 quality options and a shot in the dark.

vs our current

• #1,#19,#24,#37 which is 2 quality options and a 2 mid range guys.

I feel like it's better to churn through as many players as possible at the start of a rebuild as there should technically be more list positions and best 22 spots open.

Just on your potential list turn over.

We really turned our list over big time from 2016 to 2019. Usually drafting 5 players in the ND, 1 player in the RD, and trading in between 1 to 3 players each trade period, as well.

Just my personal opinion from reading your board, but you guys might need to turn over most of your footy department as well, to start fresh.

Maybe get Darren Glass back in as either head of football to begin a total rebuild. Or in as CEO, to do the same, but be more hands off and business orientated.

 

[dinnaz]

Pretty sure they have another player linked to them maybe academy who is projecting top20-30 too .

Jaspa Fletcher

Preston Johnson

Are the two I have heard of. I think they'll last until late draft

 

[briztoon]

Jaspa Fletcher

Preston Johnson

Are the two I have heard of. I think they'll last until late draft

Unlikely Fletcher lasts past top 30.

Also have Noah Bradshaw playing for the Murray Bushrangers.

 

[Matera92]

Piss this trade talk off and let’s get back to the factions on this board.

I’m thinking GoT like power struggle with the winner claiming pick 1.

 

[dinnaz]

Unlikely Fletcher lasts past top 30.

Also have Noah Bradshaw playing for the Murray Bushrangers.

Guys that are tied to a club already tend to slip a bit lower than they would in an open draft.

 

[WCE_phil]

TBH however woeful we have been considering North haven't been hit with Covid & our mammoth injury curse even if we finish last it's hard to see that we're the worst side in the league.

I genuinely think North will get an end of first round priority pick. From memory this would then become the first pick taken on day 2 meaning even if we finish last we lose a lot of value in that first pick of the second round. (our compensation pick for Lycett was tier 2 meaning directly after our pick but didn't count as a first round pick according to the afl)

In regards to this draft from what I have seen there doesn't look to be generational midfield talents available, more the next tier down. A couple of the talls however could be, we'll have to see as the season goes on and in particularly the championships and how players translate that afterwards.

It's also why im keen on splitting pick 1 if we get it. I would suggest North, GWS and GC would all look at a top tier tall depending on where they finish on the ladder. Adelaide almost certain to go small. Our best possible result would be gold coast finishing 16th with us finishing last. With 2 generational tall talents available they would very likely be willing to trade up. They are also almost certain to trade their 3 second rounders to brisbane for the lions first round pick imo. If we trade down even to say pick 4 (real numbers not with ashcroft bidding) I would happily take a few mids with Hewett being the top of the list for me at the moment. Tsatas has speed and touch but the knock on him is his kicking at pace.

I can see 5 talls being picked inside the first 8 picks not including Ashcroft.

 

[dinnaz]

I can see 5 talls being picked inside the first 8 picks not including Ashcroft.

Whose your 5 talls?

 

[Coasters7]

I wouldn't be surprised if we finish in the top 6 next year, with a bit of luck with injuries and drafting, also 'synergy' we can play finals next year.

Look at Sydney, Port etc..They draft 1/2 really young guns who can come in and have an impact, in conjunction with the senior players being healthy and playing good footy.

I can see something similar next year.

Don’t reckon we’re ever going to see the best of our players again. Would be alright if it was a Melbourne style injury carnage where they all come back and are still 25-27. Our blokes will all be 30+ and this will continue to happen, we won’t see our best 22 all on the park ever again unfortunately.

Need to start moving on from this group and maximising draft capital. No silly trades for guys like English or Bruyn (unless we have SPS type deals, 3rd rounder or later). We need a good 2010 or 2017 type draft. A bucket load of top 30 picks. See if there’s any offers out there for pick 1 that allow us to keep a top 5 pick (Adelaide’s offer last year), otherwise take best mid available and be done with it.

We already have 2 potentially decent second rounders so turning pick 1 into 3 picks could perhaps give us 5 top 25 picks including one very early. That’d be a very good start to refreshing the list. With Chesser and Clark already that’s a good 7 or so players to start building around with others like Naish and SPS showing a little already and Ryan and Willie, who both need a rocket as they’re half the problem with their lack of forward defensive pressure, but both are more than capable of match winning magic.

Backline needs some pace. I understand picking flankers if the situation arises where we have to choose between an elite ball user or a flawed mid, but why do we always need to pick the plodders with good skills? (Witherden is another one) Chesser is a good start in that regard but I can’t think of too many more where we’ve prioritised speed, doesn’t necessarily have to be break neck pace but just enough so we can actually compete and get to contests in time (which rarely happens)

The kick mark was perfect for us because it masked that deficiency in our list. It’s been there forever, but we found a way around it. We’re paying for it big time now with the new rules opening the field up. Time to bin the players that can’t cover the ground and look elsewhere

 

[THE A5]

Our small mid size defenders worry me a bit.

• Duggan best of the lot and potentially could be A grade at that level but is injury prone. His defensive side still far from elite
• Nelson delist material
• Witherden came as Hurn/Jetta replacement but far off their kicking ability and his kicking ability has hardly stood out and his defensive game is average. Slowly heading to bust territory

-Hough most promising of all the young one but will take a few seasons to physically come on
- Rotham is 24 and has regressed so badly he's now playing worse than at 20/21. Im not sure he'll make it either
-Foley at times look really promising but 2022 but this year is very crucial in terms of his development. His pace does worry me when he plays on smaller/nimble/fast forwards
-Cole probably has been very up and down but is going to be our best small lockdown defender. He's far from elite that regards but for our sake he needs to go another level.

I'm not saying blow early picks on small mid defenders but do have to look to address that area with Hurn/Shep/jetta all going or gone recently. I'm kinda leaning towards moving Yeo back to replace Hurn

 

[WCE_phil]

Whose your 5 talls?

My top 2 in the draft at this stage
Scully
Lemmey

Then these 3 the most likely but there are a couple of others who are putting in performances that could see them up there.
Busslinger (almost certain IMO)
Keeler (Massive upside and can really see him jumping up boards)
Jefferson (Genuine lead up forward)


I can see one of the above getting knocked out of the top 8 by Sheezel though, can see him shoot up the boards particularly if he plays more midfield. If he starts really racking up the ball he could actually go top 3.

My top 10 as of now
Scully
Lemmey
Ashcroft
Wardlaw
Keeler (The Mac Andrew of the draft and a big boom or bust pick)
Hewett
Busslinger
D'Aloia
Jefferson (Will be dependent on his Championship outings but have been told he's 196cm now)
Sheezel (Could go much higher)

No I didn't forget Tsatas. I think he will slide due to decision making, being more outside than I thought and while his kicking is generally very good his biggest asset is his speed and his kicking whilst at speed is poor.

 

[Chump Change]

Our small mid size defenders worry me a bit.

• Duggan best of the lot and potentially could be A grade at that level but is injury prone. His defensive side still far from elite
• Nelson delist material
• Witherden came as Hurn/Jetta replacement but far off their kicking ability and his kicking ability has hardly stood out and his defensive game is average. Slowly heading to bust territory

-Hough most promising of all the young one but will take a few seasons to physically come on
- Rotham is 24 and has regressed so badly he's now playing worse than at 20/21. Im not sure he'll make it either
-Foley at times look really promising but 2022 but this year is very crucial in terms of his development. His pace does worry me when he plays on smaller/nimble/fast forwards
-Cole probably has been very up and down but is going to be our best small lockdown defender. He's far from elite that regards but for our sake he needs to go another level.

I'm not saying blow early picks on small mid defenders but do have to look to address that area with Hurn/Shep/jetta all going or gone recently. I'm kinda leaning towards moving Yeo back to replace Hurn

This is not how it works.

All the flag winning teams have top 4 midfields....
To get those midfields, you typically need 2x top 5 picks...
Most players in the AFL are followers - they play well in top 4 sides, ok in middling sides, and like dogshit in bottom 4 sides....
The elite players are the ones who are elite given any circumstance, and they are critical in lifting bottom 4 sides up the ladder and into flag contention (Bont, Dusty, Cripps etc)....
So any team wanting to build towards a flags needs those 2x top 5 draft picks (and some)....
They rest are those follower players who ride the coattails of the elites.... when they are surround by some elite players in a good system they flourish.....

Our small or midsize defenders just don't matter right now. What is putting Yeo down there going to do? He's a midfield bull who is lacking match fitness. He's the guy, along with Kelly who will mentor and protect our soon to be acquired top 5 draft picks.

Meanwhile, Rotham and Witherden and Duggan are playing in a shit team with a recently broken game plan that is probably confusing because we are trying to break the mould Simmo set for 8 years.... Not easy. These are players who will probably come good.... once we have a fresh coach with fresh ideas and some elite talent coming through.

We're not going to fix our "small defender problem" by changing the small defender. We're going to change it by bring in new elite talent into the midfield and a fresh gameplan. And that's a few years away.

All we can do now is watch AO and Chesser develop, and maybe Dugg to realise he's now a leader and has to step up, and watch our newly acquired top 5 talent to develop. What's happening with our small defenders has f'all to do with f'all.

 

[mattyc75]

Our small mid size defenders worry me a bit.

• Duggan best of the lot and potentially could be A grade at that level but is injury prone. His defensive side still far from elite
• Nelson delist material
• Witherden came as Hurn/Jetta replacement but far off their kicking ability and his kicking ability has hardly stood out and his defensive game is average. Slowly heading to bust territory

-Hough most promising of all the young one but will take a few seasons to physically come on
- Rotham is 24 and has regressed so badly he's now playing worse than at 20/21. Im not sure he'll make it either
-Foley at times look really promising but 2022 but this year is very crucial in terms of his development. His pace does worry me when he plays on smaller/nimble/fast forwards
-Cole probably has been very up and down but is going to be our best small lockdown defender. He's far from elite that regards but for our sake he needs to go another level.

I'm not saying blow early picks on small mid defenders but do have to look to address that area with Hurn/Shep/jetta all going or gone recently. I'm kinda leaning towards moving Yeo back to replace Hurn

Taking hagan with a later pic would help with small defenders

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[30stm]

Unlikely given the players don't give a truck:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/furious-and-disappointed-west-coast-eagles-lash-players-for-nightclub-visit/news-story/1226d6da5a69ef5c99c97211fa1e4a8c

They are taking the piss out of Simmo.

WC should sack em...both are list cloggers anyway.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I'm still just not convinced we'll have a top 3 pick, let alone pick one at the end of the year.

I feel like Norf is so much more concrete to stay bad than we are. I'm "worried" we'll win a couple of pointless games and destroy our draft position.



I've plucked about 4 games i feel we could pinch an unfortunate win.



Round 8: Lions - Loss

Round 9: Demons - Loss

Round 10: Giants away - Loss

Round 11: Bulldogs @ Optus is a sneaky chance of an upset.

Round 12: Crows @ AO is winnable technically

Round 14: Cats @ Optus - Loss

Round 15: Bombers @ Optus we can absolutely win.

Round 16: Tigers @ MCG - Loss

Round 17: Carlton @ Optus - Loss

Round 18: Hawks @ MCG - Loss

Round 19: Saints @ Optus - Loss

Round 20: Suns @ Metricon - Loss

Round 21: Crows @ Optus we could win.

Round 22: Dockers @ Optus - Loss

Round 23: Geelong @ GMHBA - Hahahaahahahaahaha

 

[SumaGodCoach]

I'm still just not convinced we'll have a top 3 pick, let alone pick one at the end of the year.

I feel like Norf is so much more concrete to stay bad than we are. I'm "worried" we'll win a couple of pointless games and destroy our draft position.



I've plucked about 4 games i feel we could pinch an unfortunate win.



Round 8: Lions - Loss

Round 9: Demons - Loss

Round 10: Giants away - Loss

Round 11: Bulldogs @ Optus is a sneaky chance of an upset.

Round 12: Crows @ AO is winnable technically

Round 14: Cats @ Optus - Loss

Round 15: Bombers @ Optus we can absolutely win.

Round 16: Tigers @ MCG - Loss

Round 17: Carlton @ Optus - Loss

Round 18: Hawks @ MCG - Loss

Round 19: Saints @ Optus - Loss

Round 20: Suns @ Metricon - Loss

Round 21: Crows @ Optus we could win.

Round 22: Dockers @ Optus - Loss

Round 23: Geelong @ GMHBA - Hahahaahahahaahaha

You need to do this same exercise for our 3 main rivals North, Essendon and Gold Coast. Our % being as low as possible is also important as it means we can tie the number of wins with those teams and still get the higher pick. I do the ladder predictor at the end of every round(because I am really fun at parties) and have us finishing 18th or 17th no matter how you slice it. Fun fact: North plays GC at home in round 23 and this could end up being our Grand Final this year.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I feel like Fold Coast has at least been competitive and shown up for some of their losses. We haven't.

Wouldn't put them in the same spud level as us and North who get beat like we stole something, without a whimper.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Would prefer not to finish last to be perfectly honest with you. Like seriously, **** that.

Unless there's a Judd then a whole bunch of Rhys Palmers in the draft. There shouldn't be much difference between Pick 1 and Pick 5. I'd like the Eagles to show some pride this year.

 

[Biggie]

I'd like the Eagles to show some pride this year.

 

[Goroyals22]

I'm still just not convinced we'll have a top 3 pick, let alone pick one at the end of the year.

I feel like Norf is so much more concrete to stay bad than we are. I'm "worried" we'll win a couple of pointless games and destroy our draft position.



I've plucked about 4 games i feel we could pinch an unfortunate win.



Round 8: Lions - Loss

Round 9: Demons - Loss

Round 10: Giants away - Loss

Round 11: Bulldogs @ Optus is a sneaky chance of an upset.

Round 12: Crows @ AO is winnable technically

Round 14: Cats @ Optus - Loss

Round 15: Bombers @ Optus we can absolutely win.

Round 16: Tigers @ MCG - Loss

Round 17: Carlton @ Optus - Loss

Round 18: Hawks @ MCG - Loss

Round 19: Saints @ Optus - Loss

Round 20: Suns @ Metricon - Loss

Round 21: Crows @ Optus we could win.

Round 22: Dockers @ Optus - Loss

Round 23: Geelong @ GMHBA - Hahahaahahahaahaha

Have you watched us play this year?? We wont be favourite in any game we play…

 

[WCE_Phill]

Can Port stop winning...our 2nd rounder is getting weaker

 

[Dark Sharks]

Have you watched us play this year?? We wont be favourite in any game we play…

Yeah i know we won't be favourite, i just feel we'll pull our finger out for a game or two at some point.

Be better for us draft wise if we didn't obviously, but i can certainly see it happening.

 

[Coasters7]

This is not how it works.

All the flag winning teams have top 4 midfields....
To get those midfields, you typically need 2x top 5 picks...
Most players in the AFL are followers - they play well in top 4 sides, ok in middling sides, and like dogshit in bottom 4 sides....
The elite players are the ones who are elite given any circumstance, and they are critical in lifting bottom 4 sides up the ladder and into flag contention (Bont, Dusty, Cripps etc)....
So any team wanting to build towards a flags needs those 2x top 5 draft picks (and some)....
They rest are those follower players who ride the coattails of the elites.... when they are surround by some elite players in a good system they flourish.....

Our small or midsize defenders just don't matter right now. What is putting Yeo down there going to do? He's a midfield bull who is lacking match fitness. He's the guy, along with Kelly who will mentor and protect our soon to be acquired top 5 draft picks.

Meanwhile, Rotham and Witherden and Duggan are playing in a shit team with a recently broken game plan that is probably confusing because we are trying to break the mould Simmo set for 8 years.... Not easy. These are players who will probably come good.... once we have a fresh coach with fresh ideas and some elite talent coming through.

We're not going to fix our "small defender problem" by changing the small defender. We're going to change it by bring in new elite talent into the midfield and a fresh gameplan. And that's a few years away.

All we can do now is watch AO and Chesser develop, and maybe Dugg to realise he's now a leader and has to step up, and watch our newly acquired top 5 talent to develop. What's happening with our small defenders has f'all to do with f'all.

To be fair, he did say he wasn’t keen on using early picks on flankers but it is an area that needs addressing badly. Look at everyone else’s back flankers and how much they create drive out of the back half. They’re quick and agile and can beat their man with footwork. Ours are absolute plodders that try to fend off before inevitably finding out how weak they are, and that’s before we talk about how hard they get burnt back the other way when we turn it over.

Duggans our best by a long way because he actually has, dare I say it, swervability, everyone else just runs at average to below average pace in straight lines.

Watching Freos game last night was eye opening. I have no idea how good guys like Walker and Clark are overall as I don’t watch many of their games, but what I did see was the ability to cover ground at a good speed, and that works wonders for team defence.

Does also help when you have two way running midfielders and be able to win it out of the middle as well though for sure

 

[WCE_phil]

TBH i'm not against picking Scully if we finish bottom two. Have been told he's now 204/205 cm so with tutelage under Nicnat could very well solve the puzzle of absolute top tier Key forward and Ruck.

**** the melts on here if we went Scully/Lemmey and then Broadbent at our second pick. It would be a sight to see. It'd almost certainly break bigfooty.

A lot is going to depend on the championships and in particular how the Victorian cohort come on through the year.

The thing is scully has now kicked 35 goals from 5 games this year. Yes a large part of it has been him simply being too tall for his opponent but he's still getting to the drop of the ball, has good hands, a good kick and very good athleticism. Is it elite agility at his height getting him to the right places or is it elite footy IQ.

 

[Dark Sharks]

If he can legitimately play first ruck, then sure.

If he's a forward who can only give chopouts to a proper ruckman, than it's a no, as we already have Dixon, Williams, Jilliams for that.



Broadbent makes more sense as he's an actual ruckman. If we could get him with our 2nd selection i'd be well stoked, and rucks tend to slide.

 

[WCErevival]

Even if we win 3 or 4 more games we will still finish bottom 2