List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

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Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...
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Bunch of softies in here.
Hawthorn moved on three 30+ 3x premiership players to other clubs and got on with their rebuild.

Half our 30+ guys are much older than those guys, on one leg and everyone wants to keep them around for another 1-2 years.

They all played this year and we’re 2nd last, how much better are we going to be with them another older next year?

Are we on the cusp of a flag? No.

So stop delaying the inevitable and do what we should have started doing two years ago and start moving these guys on because we got a bunch of others about to get to that 30+ bracket too.

If we had half a brain, we’d have traded a few on while they still had currency and got something in return but all our old champs will go straight to the glue factory.


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joeyavalanche said:
Bunch of softies in here.
Hawthorn moved on three 30+ 3x premiership players to other clubs and got on with their rebuild.

Half our 30+ guys are much older than those guys, on one leg and everyone wants to keep them around for another 1-2 years.

They all played this year and we’re 2nd last, how much better are we going to be with them another older next year?

Are we on the cusp of a flag? No.

So stop delaying the inevitable and do what we should have started doing two years ago and start moving these guys on because we got a bunch of others about to get to that 30+ bracket too.

If we had half a brain, we’d have traded a few on while they still had currency and got something in return but all our old champs will go straight to the glue factory.


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Click to expand...
Hawthorn's rebuild has gone swimmingly, after all....


Not sure they're the best example.
 
joeyavalanche said:
Bunch of softies in here.
Hawthorn moved on three 30+ 3x premiership players to other clubs and got on with their rebuild.

Half our 30+ guys are much older than those guys, on one leg and everyone wants to keep them around for another 1-2 years.

They all played this year and we’re 2nd last, how much better are we going to be with them another older next year?

Are we on the cusp of a flag? No.

So stop delaying the inevitable and do what we should have started doing two years ago and start moving these guys on because we got a bunch of others about to get to that 30+ bracket too.

If we had half a brain, we’d have traded a few on while they still had currency and got something in return but all our old champs will go straight to the glue factory.


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Click to expand...
If we draft too hard over a shorter period then you have to recycle a certain percentage of those draftees over the next few years on top of the guys you're already losing.

Say we lose Kennedy this year. Hurn, Naitanui and maybe Shuey next year. Gaff, Darling, Redden, Cripps and Yeo. Then say we lose these guys over a three year basis then that's 3 players off the main list each year before you look at delisting on the basis of quality.

Id look to generate draft currency through the middle of our list, keep the top end players for as long as possible. This would bring a stronger cohort of players through together and build a team with higher team cohesion.



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briztoon said:
I know he never said that.

Just that it’s unfair for a top 4 team to get a kid who is highly rated.

As I said previously, I’d happily pay our first rounder for Ashcroft. Any team in our position would.

But the system was changed when teams (Eddie at Collingwood) complained about Sydney who finished second, getting Heeney, a top 3 rated kid in the draft, for pick 18.


As for matching Ashcroft with multiple picks in the 30’s.

What is it that is unfair?

It’s not possible for a team in our position to only trade our first round pick to collect enough points to match a bid at pick 1.

Best scenario I can up with is our first round pick and future second round pick to Gold Coast for picks 25, 32 and 33.

It’s a trade I make in a heart beat.
Click to expand...

Its is obvious that the Lions 1st isnt enough, when a top 4 club lands an elite FS it never is. So additional picks are needed on top of a pick in the teens to pay for a likely top 3 pick.

The change is a very simple one. A team has a FS nomination who is a 1st round selection a 1 round pick is used plus any additional picks to make up the points. No trading out of the 1st round.

Teams benefiting already get a 20% discount and first access. It is blantantly unfair that some teams regularly get access to elite talent, discounted and then they manipulate their picks swapping 1st rounders for future 1sts or use in trades for players and double dip.

What would be interesting is a ladder on what clubs have benefited the most with FS and academy selections sinse the 18 team comp started.
 
joeyavalanche said:
Bunch of softies in here.
Hawthorn moved on three 30+ 3x premiership players to other clubs and got on with their rebuild.

Half our 30+ guys are much older than those guys, on one leg and everyone wants to keep them around for another 1-2 years.

They all played this year and we’re 2nd last, how much better are we going to be with them another older next year?

Are we on the cusp of a flag? No.

So stop delaying the inevitable and do what we should have started doing two years ago and start moving these guys on because we got a bunch of others about to get to that 30+ bracket too.

If we had half a brain, we’d have traded a few on while they still had currency and got something in return but all our old champs will go straight to the glue factory.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

Everyone wants to keep our over 30's for 1-2 years?

I havent read that anywhere.

You get rid of all of the over 30's at once who replaces them? Rookie players. We would end up being flogged each week, the kids getting beat up and then fed up. The kids you want in will get tired of losing and end up leaving.

Thats why 2 or 3 per year is what you aim for. This year its JK, Sheppard and maybe one more. That is it and it is perfectly reasonable and understandable. When you actually think.
 
Obeanie1 said:
Everyone wants to keep our over 30's for 1-2 years?

I havent read that anywhere.

You get rid of all of the over 30's at once who replaces them? Rookie players. We would end up being flogged each week, the kids getting beat up and then fed up. The kids you want in will get tired of losing and end up leaving.

Thats why 2 or 3 per year is what you aim for. This year its JK, Sheppard and maybe one more. That is it and it is perfectly reasonable and understandable. When you actually think.
Click to expand...
Sure would suck to get flogged every week.....
But we really need to move on more than just JK and Sheppard this year imo. We all thought halfway through the year that this would be Hurn and Shuey's last year and no one was waving their hands around hysterically about it back then.
You shove them off (or Redden or manage to get a trade for Gaff) and you start to open up spots on the field for the younger guys.
Still leaves us with about 6 or 7 guys over 30 on the team plus Yeo, Kelly, Ryan, Rioli, Duggan and Barrass are all in their mid to late 20s.
 
The club is almost bereft of talent in the 22-26 year age bracket. This combined with a draft that doesn't bat deep is why we can't just ship off the 30+ year old players this year.

We'll likely lose 10 players off the list this year. Sure that only means 6 picks in the draft/rookie draft/ssp but we really don't want to be going deeper than that.
Next year we'll likely lose another 10 with 3-4 retirements in there
The year after that we'll likely lose another 10 with 3-4 retirements in there.

When the 30+ year old players are performing hugely better than that 22-26 year old group the club has to stagger the rebuild as there isn't that mid aged talent to develop around. It's that simple.

The only potential star in that age bracket is Liam Ryan and he is not the sort of player you can rely upon or build a team around. If you look at the list these are our potential AFL level players in that age bracket from oldest to youngest

Ryan
Duggan
Cole
Waterman
Jones*
Allen
Petrucelle
Foley

Jones has a star next to his name as i'm pretty certain he won't make it. He's a natural midfielder but not good enough in the position. His decision making and skills also really hurt from the back half and when up forward he doesn't kick goals or lead to good inside 50's.

Those are the guys who if you are going to drop off the 30+ players the club will be rebuilding around with a few a bit older but if we just go and dump all the 30+ players now we will be in a worse position than North, Melbourne or Carlton ever put themselves in.

Our rebuild started last year and it looks as though we've got at least 3 AFL level players out of it.

Realistically to be successful we need to do the same thing for the next 3 drafts and we need whatever grade you want to call it but at least 3 genuine star players out of that 4 combined years.

You build that group from now and look to be strongly moving up the ladder post 2025 for a sustained attempt at another premiership again. I think people really don't appreciate just how bad our list position is.

When Worsfold walked in he already had Cousins, Kerr, Judd, Glass, Hunter, Wirrpanda, Embley, Gardiner, Cox, Fletcher, Seaby, Braun, Hansen and Lynch going into his first season coaching the team. The oldest player there was Ben Cousins and both himself, Gardiner, Wirrpanda were already entrenched in the side and you had breakout stars of Judd and Kerr. The club is in no way, shape or position to cull the old players as we don't have the young ones to build for success yet. Hopefully by the end of 2025 when the guys who are 30+ at the end of this season we do but until then the club can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Hopefully, just hopefully we still have Sheed, Barrass, Kelly, Yeo, Rioli and Barrass still there guiding that group and our new generation youth for an early shot at a premiership before they all hang up the boots.
 
Godfather32 said:
Sure would suck to get flogged every week.....
But we really need to move on more than just JK and Sheppard this year imo. We all thought halfway through the year that this would be Hurn and Shuey's last year and no one was waving their hands around hysterically about it back then.
You shove them off (or Redden or manage to get a trade for Gaff) and you start to open up spots on the field for the younger guys.
Still leaves us with about 6 or 7 guys over 30 on the team plus Yeo, Kelly, Ryan, Rioli, Duggan and Barrass are all in their mid to late 20s.
Click to expand...

2022 - 2 or 3 JK, Shep and possibly Hurn or a Gaff trade.

2023 - 3 Shuey, Hurn and Redden.

2024 - 2 Gov and Nic (if not earlier)

That is 6 in two seasons, 7 with Nic who could retire at any time with his injury history.

Over the next three drafts that is what we are looking at. And we also have plenty of dead wood to cut before best 22 players and champions of the club.

And none of them will play all 23 games. And there is where the kids when they have done the work in the WAFL get opportunities
 
Godfather32 said:
Sure would suck to get flogged every week.....
But we really need to move on more than just JK and Sheppard this year imo. We all thought halfway through the year that this would be Hurn and Shuey's last year and no one was waving their hands around hysterically about it back then.
You shove them off (or Redden or manage to get a trade for Gaff) and you start to open up spots on the field for the younger guys.
Still leaves us with about 6 or 7 guys over 30 on the team plus Yeo, Kelly, Ryan, Rioli, Duggan and Barrass are all in their mid to late 20s.
Click to expand...

The thing is the 30+ year old players aren't going to be durable enough to be playing every week. So there will always be spots for the youth to be pushing through.

I fully agree with getting gaff of our list, even if we are paying half his salary.
 
www.afl.com.au

ON THE OUTER: Why can't he get a game for your club?

Who is surprisingly out of favour with the coach at your club?
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

brisbane.jpg

Ely Smith

Now in his fourth season, Smith is still yet to debut and looks quite a way down the Lions' pecking order. The former first round draft pick has been tried on a wing and at half-forward in the VFL, but ultimately he's an inside midfielder in a club stacked with them. Lachie Neale, Jarryd Lyons, Dayne Zorko and Hugh McCluggage are all durable regulars at senior level, while Rhys Mathieson and Deven Robertson also appear ahead of Smith – who has averaged 20 disposals in 12 games at the lower level this season. The 21-year-old is out of contract at season's end and running out of time. - Michael Whiting

Others on the outer: Rhys Mathieson (one game), Deven Robertson (four games)

fremantle.jpg

Lloyd Meek

The strong-bodied ruckman would be getting a regular senior game in a lot of AFL teams, but the combination of Sean Darcy and Rory Lobb has become the preferred big-man pairing for the Dockers. Meek has played five games this season, with all coming as the replacement for either Darcy or key forward Matt Taberner, with the 24-year-old otherwise dominating WAFL games. His best position is as a No.1 ruckman, having managed three goals and three marks inside 50 from his 14 AFL games, and two goals from eight WAFL games this season. The opportunity to carry the ruck is unlikely to come while Darcy is fit, making Meek's next career step an interesting one. – Nathan Schmook

richmond.jpg

Sydney Stack

Stack has played just the two games at AFL level this year, picking up five disposals in the Tigers' rout of West Coast in round seven, and was an unused medi-sub in round eight. He was building a damaging run of VFL form – averaging 16 disposals and one goal a game – in the six weeks before he fractured a cheekbone at the start of July. The emergence of Maurice Rioli has meant fewer forward spots on offer, while Shane Edwards is also playing more time in attack and less in the midfield. – Sarah Black



And just for the LOL's

gws-giants.jpg

Jarrod Brander

There were high hopes for the former first round draft pick after moving from West Coast but surprisingly he's only managed five games for the season to date. As was the case at the Eagles, the issue with the 195cm Brander is where best to play him? He was named for round one against the Swans and played as a third tall forward and, if not for some inaccurate kicking, he would have had a real impact on the contest. Since then he's failed to nail down a spot in the team but he has been one of the Giants' best across the VFL season playing predominantly on the wing. There are many who feel there's a definite AFL player in Brander and it's expected he'll get a good run at it in the senior side over the final five weeks of the campaign. The Giants need to learn a bit more about their list and most certainly about a player like Brander who, given his height, can potentially provide a unique wing threat at the top level. – Daniel Garb
 
www.theroar.com.au

A way-too-early mock AFL draft

We all love the draft to see which talent is stepping into our club, and while the 2022 AFL draft is still months away,…
www.theroar.com.au

tl;dr

1) Norf - Jed Busslinger
2) Brisbane - Will Ashcroft
3) Eagles - Elijah Hewett
4) Essendon - Sheezel
5) Crows - Wardlaw
....
8) Power - Phillipou
 

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kane249 said:
www.theroar.com.au

A way-too-early mock AFL draft

We all love the draft to see which talent is stepping into our club, and while the 2022 AFL draft is still months away,…
www.theroar.com.au

tl;dr

1) Norf - Jed Busslinger
2) Brisbane - Will Ashcroft
3) Eagles - Elijah Hewett
4) Essendon - Sheezel
5) Crows - Wardlaw
....
8) Power - Phillipou
Click to expand...
Interesting. I think Phillipou may be the JHF of this draft - the SA clubs will attempt to pre-empt each other for him before Pick 4/5. I think we should exploit that. I would be showing strong interest in him to see what could be shaken loose from the Crows or Power in a trade offer.
 
Last edited:
twce13 said:
lets be clear.. with the current system, lions are not losing anything. the system is a farce, teams should pay what a player is worth. you act like its no biggie that a team in the 15-18 range will be getting the best player in the cohort. For a team in the top 4 getting the best player, losing all their picks isnt even going to make it a losing scenario for said team.

remember the draft was meant to be an equalisation system.
current system and teams manipulating with pick trades goes against this completely.
Click to expand...
Not sure if this has been addresed, but F/S are part of what make our game great. They don't come along that often for any one team. Happy to have them be outliers that screw up the draft.

What I do have an issue with is Sydney being able to pick up Heeney and Mills, top 3 pick level, when they finished at the very top end of the ladder. Academy picks stuff it up. Should be no discount on academy kids.
 
WCE_phil said:
...Hopefully, just hopefully we still have Sheed, Barrass, Kelly, Yeo, Rioli and Barrass still there guiding that group and our new generation youth for an early shot at a premiership before they all hang up the boots.
Click to expand...

Absolutely critical we get our S&C and medical teams performing to AFL standard to properly support the transition.
 
Obeanie1 said:
www.afl.com.au

ON THE OUTER: Why can't he get a game for your club?

Who is surprisingly out of favour with the coach at your club?
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

brisbane.jpg

Ely Smith

Now in his fourth season, Smith is still yet to debut and looks quite a way down the Lions' pecking order. The former first round draft pick has been tried on a wing and at half-forward in the VFL, but ultimately he's an inside midfielder in a club stacked with them. Lachie Neale, Jarryd Lyons, Dayne Zorko and Hugh McCluggage are all durable regulars at senior level, while Rhys Mathieson and Deven Robertson also appear ahead of Smith – who has averaged 20 disposals in 12 games at the lower level this season. The 21-year-old is out of contract at season's end and running out of time. - Michael Whiting

Others on the outer: Rhys Mathieson (one game), Deven Robertson (four games)

fremantle.jpg

Lloyd Meek

The strong-bodied ruckman would be getting a regular senior game in a lot of AFL teams, but the combination of Sean Darcy and Rory Lobb has become the preferred big-man pairing for the Dockers. Meek has played five games this season, with all coming as the replacement for either Darcy or key forward Matt Taberner, with the 24-year-old otherwise dominating WAFL games. His best position is as a No.1 ruckman, having managed three goals and three marks inside 50 from his 14 AFL games, and two goals from eight WAFL games this season. The opportunity to carry the ruck is unlikely to come while Darcy is fit, making Meek's next career step an interesting one. – Nathan Schmook

richmond.jpg

Sydney Stack

Stack has played just the two games at AFL level this year, picking up five disposals in the Tigers' rout of West Coast in round seven, and was an unused medi-sub in round eight. He was building a damaging run of VFL form – averaging 16 disposals and one goal a game – in the six weeks before he fractured a cheekbone at the start of July. The emergence of Maurice Rioli has meant fewer forward spots on offer, while Shane Edwards is also playing more time in attack and less in the midfield. – Sarah Black



And just for the LOL's

gws-giants.jpg

Jarrod Brander

There were high hopes for the former first round draft pick after moving from West Coast but surprisingly he's only managed five games for the season to date. As was the case at the Eagles, the issue with the 195cm Brander is where best to play him? He was named for round one against the Swans and played as a third tall forward and, if not for some inaccurate kicking, he would have had a real impact on the contest. Since then he's failed to nail down a spot in the team but he has been one of the Giants' best across the VFL season playing predominantly on the wing. There are many who feel there's a definite AFL player in Brander and it's expected he'll get a good run at it in the senior side over the final five weeks of the campaign. The Giants need to learn a bit more about their list and most certainly about a player like Brander who, given his height, can potentially provide a unique wing threat at the top level. – Daniel Garb
Click to expand...

What's the Ely Smith story briztoon? Just a bad first round call?
 
bzparkes said:
Hawthorn's rebuild has gone swimmingly, after all....


Not sure they're the best example.
Click to expand...

Not suggesting Hawk’s outcome is perfect, but with or without those guys they were going to finish where they did and they got picks back for their older guys.

Pretty sure Mitch Lewis came from the trades they got for Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis

It’s still early days for their kids.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Eastern Rangers said:
If we draft too hard over a shorter period then you have to recycle a certain percentage of those draftees over the next few years on top of the guys you're already losing.

Say we lose Kennedy this year. Hurn, Naitanui and maybe Shuey next year. Gaff, Darling, Redden, Cripps and Yeo.

Say we lose these guys over a three year basis then that's 3 players off the main list each year before you look at delisting on the basis of quality.

Id look to generate draft currency through the middle of our list, keep the top end players for as long as possible. This would bring a stronger cohort of players through together and build a team with higher team cohesive.



Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hard to generate draft currency for our mid tier players if the older guys are taking 1/3 of the players on the field each week.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Obeanie1 said:
Everyone wants to keep our over 30's for 1-2 years?

I havent read that anywhere.

You get rid of all of the over 30's at once who replaces them? Rookie players. We would end up being flogged each week, the kids getting beat up and then fed up. The kids you want in will get tired of losing and end up leaving.

Thats why 2 or 3 per year is what you aim for. This year its JK, Sheppard and maybe one more. That is it and it is perfectly reasonable and understandable. When you actually think.
Click to expand...

We’re getting flogged each week with our old champs playing!

Not suggesting any more than 2-3 retirements each year, wasn’t suggesting they all go at once.

Everyone is including JK and Shep this year, but Shep really sits outside of that. So with that in mind we still have to make 1-2 more harsh calls at the end of the year.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Our over 30's
1658283538781.png

JK will retire at years end. He's done, and hopefully Oscar is back next year to take his place.

Hurn has another year left in him if he wants it.

Expected retirements if health permits:

2022 end of season - JK (35)
2023 end of season - Hurn (36)
2024 end of season - Nic Nat (34) / Shuey (34) / Redden (33 and a half)

These players, given their age, could retire a year earlier if health/form deserts them, that's the nature of being old. It can come quickly.

In the meantime we have plenty of dross in the middle of our list that can be turned over without cutting aggressively at the older guys who will naturally age out. Especially given they are still contributing players.
 
Regarding Brander, if 2 clubs have failed to do what needs be done, he needs to take the initiative and do it himself: bulk up

From what i am told Fyfe took the initiative and started smashing the gym largely on his own

And if we want an example at own our club, we once had a skinny wingman who started smashing the gym and turned himself into a brute full forward, Fraser Gherig

I am not sure what seems to be the aversion with Brander to having him hit the gym with vigor and eat like its his full time job, but it seems to be this obsession with preserving his "mobility"

Think about how much muscle he could have put on from draft day to now, if either club, or himself, had prioritised this from day one
 
JackOutback said:
Hurn should retire, he may be playing well, but he doesn't fit into the faster game plan that we absolutely have to be bedding down next year. It's not just about list profile or staggered retirements, I don't think him playing next year is good for team strategy.
Click to expand...

Yeah i agree.

I would offer him a coaching role down back to work along side Pratt.

I wouldn't be surprised if Redden hangs the boots up this year also and go out on a high. Being playing decent enough footy but once Sheed is back i cant see a role for him.

Shuey should stay on but not as captain. Worst case he just hangs the boots up mid year and we get a pick in the mid season draft.
 
JackOutback said:
Hurn should retire, he may be playing well, but he doesn't fit into the faster game plan that we absolutely have to be bedding down next year. It's not just about list profile or staggered retirements, I don't think him playing next year is good for team strategy.
Click to expand...

Our problem is we have a relatively reliable body in Hurn and Shuey's 'strings are made of wet tissue.

You can't lead, set standards and impart knowledge from the rehab room...and the bloke is the captain at that.

If Shuey stays on and also retains the captaincy...gee.
 
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