Covid 19 (OPEN DISCUSSION)

[ep2018]

At the very least, dont expect us to be open before the federal election, which will be April or May. We are federal Labor's golden goose right now, Labor will win the next election in WA alone, allowing covid to wreck our economy is a huge risk politically.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Again with the 4% rubbish

From our leader living on borrowed time:

"If you have a third dose uh your um your efficacy against infection like your protection against getting infected increases from 4% to around 60 to 64".

4%

 

[wadistance]

=

At the very least, dont expect us to be open before the federal election, which will be April or May. We are federal Labor's golden goose right now, Labor will win the next election in WA alone, allowing covid to wreck our economy is a huge risk politically.

as much as I hate Scomo and his bunch of crooks - if this was to be the case, I hope he wins in a landslide. Playing politics with peoples freedom can **** right off.

 

[Dazzler9]

From our leader living on borrowed time:

"If you have a third dose uh your um your efficacy against infection like your protection against getting infected increases from 4% to around 60 to 64".

4%

"against infection" being the key phrase there.

 

[Balls In]

Ah, so you want people to be able to do whatever they want, remain unvaccinated and unboosted with no negative impact on their day-to-day lives, knowing that they are 20x more likely to require hospitalisation and ultimately overload the public health system and push other (vaccinated) people with non-Covid health problems further down the queue.

Not sure why people get upset when we bring up the US Covid situation given that all of the stuff that you want would obviously end up with Australia having low vaccination rates, catastrophic levels of Covid-related deaths and illnesses, and a health system on the brink of collapse.

Let the unvaxxed die is one of the most abhorrent things I've read hereabouts. How do you know these evil people haven't made lifetime contributions to our society in all other ways? Paid taxes, lifetime private health, charity donors? What if they are Dr's, nurses, teachers, engineers, scientists?

 

[Priddis Is Done]

"against infection" being the key phrase there.

So double vaccinated, when infected, spread 96% of the time?

4%, might as well call it 0%.

 

[WCE_phil]

back in around 2003 we were told by our politicians and media Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It was completely based on a lie, with not a single person ( in politics or media) ever being held to account for the hundreds and thousands of deaths / murdered



This time when a real weapon of mass destruction (a bioweapon) is released there is not even a whisper of going after those responsible, by our politicians and media.
Instead we are told / mandated (under duress of loss of job et ) to comply to the “protocols“
Go figure

That's because it's almost certain it's from the Wuhan institute of virology who had 12+ months to cover any tracks and even then were led on basically a guided tour rather than a truly independent WHO tracing program. Why do you think the US pulled all their funding of the WHO.

Anyone thinking it came from anywhere else, please feel free to find me any natural borne virus that mutates anywhere remotely this quickly.

Without being able to find genuine proof and anyone who could likely give it 'mysteriously disappearing' how do you at least level huge financial sanctions against China or do you propose going to war with them?

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Ah, so you want people to be able to do whatever they want, remain unvaccinated and unboosted with no negative impact on their day-to-day lives, knowing that they are 20x more likely to require hospitalisation and ultimately overload the public health system and push other (vaccinated) people with non-Covid health problems further down the queue.

Not sure why people get upset when we bring up the US Covid situation given that all of the stuff that you want would obviously end up with Australia having low vaccination rates, catastrophic levels of Covid-related deaths and illnesses, and a health system on the brink of collapse.

Yes I've been given a choice with a gun to my head. Comply or lose your job.

The Nurmberg code is no more.

 

[Dazzler9]

So double vaccinated, when infected, spread 96% of the time?

4%, might as well call it 0%.

No. The double vaccinated, several months after vaccination, have a 4% lesser chance of getting infected than the unvaccinated. Which is not much.

Fortunately, they still maintain very high levels of protection against severe disease. That is why vaccination is still a good thing.

The levels of protection against severe disease are also elevated following a booster, as is the protection against infection (which probably wanes again after a few months).

 

[ziad]

No. The double vaccinated, several months after vaccination, have a 4% lesser chance of getting infected than the unvaccinated. Which is not much.

Fortunately, they still maintain very high levels of protection against severe disease. That is why vaccination is still a good thing.

The levels of protection against severe disease are also elevated following a booster, as is the protection against infection (which probably wanes again after a few months).

MAN YOU ONLY HAVE THREE TIME LESS CHANCE OF CARKING IT IF YOU ARE BAD. WHAT THE ISSUE

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Definitely McGowan’s fault every time some poor doorman at Dan Murphy’s gets yelled at. Because we can’t expect people to be responsible for their own actions.

From the makers of “this ****ing nanny state needs to trust adults to make informed decisions about public health” comes “if adults yell at hospitality staff it’s really the government’s fault”.

 

[darksquare]

It's like you lack the ability to understand that places which have gone hard to eradicate Covid from the get-go have actually been able to do so; this has been proven repeatedly.

Which places have eradicated Omicron? I agree that squelching Delta outbreaks (more dangerous but less transmissible) repaid the effort. Omicron, not so much.

 

[Balls In]

From the makers of “this ******* nanny state needs to trust adults to make informed decisions about public health” comes “if adults yell at hospitality staff it’s really the government’s fault”.

Because making hospitality staff enforce a ridiculous no alcohol mandate will not have obvious connotations? I'm sticking with my "un-Australian" call by the end of the first week.

 

[darksquare]

Have you given any thought to my proposal that people should be given more freedoms to remain unvaccinated if they agree that if they get sick, then they will just stay home and die rather than putting an unfair burden on the WA health system?

That is a ridiculous and inhumane proposal, utterly at odds with basic principles of medical care in a civilised society. There are many things we could reasonably do to encourage higher vaccination rates, but at no stage in this discussion should the penalty be "if you refuse to comply, you can stay home and die".

 

[Forward Press]

That is a ridiculous and inhumane proposal, utterly at odds with basic principles of medical care in a civilised society. There are many things we could reasonably do to encourage higher vaccination rates, but at no stage in this discussion should the penalty be "if you refuse to comply, you can stay home and die".

I haven't really followed the gist of Balls In's posts, but my general view is that they (the vaccine skeptical and anti-mandate side, if you want to put it like that) wanted to accord the unvaccinated equal access to society as the vaccinated and therein lies the general idea of 'with actions come consequences' - should an unvaccinated by choice person demand equal access to healthcare if they contract COVID? It has been a long running debate in this thread.

Think you're taking IS' post out of context.

 

[darksquare]

Ah, so you...

Setting up a strawman.

There is a very wide middle ground between the policies currently in place here in WA, and the opposite extreme in the US. Most of the people you're arguing against here occupy that middle ground, and they're closer to the McGowan end than DeSantis. Falling back on "you want a result like the US" is unfair to (most of) those who are arguing to lift restrictions now. It is simply not possible for any policy we enact now to have results that even approximate what's happened in the US. Our vaccination rates, along with the reduced severity of Omicron, guarantee it.

What will happen if we open our borders? Something very like what's happening in the eastern states. Lots of cases, hospitals close to (but not over) capacity, and deaths which will likely peak at around a dozen a day. It's not great, but I do not believe it will be materially better if we wait. We would get more booster shots into more people, but the most vulnerable, who have been boosted already, would have waning immunity. The shortage of overseas doctors and nurses isn't getting fixed in 2022.

This is not a perfect time to open up, but is there a better time? To get to the other side of this, we have to go through it. It won't be fun, but it has to happen sometime.

 

[PremiershipNo4]

Yes I've been given a choice with a gun to my head. Comply or lose your job.

The Nurmberg code is no more.

Disgraceful that you referred to McGowan as Stalin earlier. My grandparents left the Czech Republic after the 2nd world war, my grandmothers 7 brothers were all murdered by Stalin’s regime.
McGowan has done nothing but try to protects peoples lives and livelihoods.
You are a disgrace!

 

[darksquare]

I haven't really followed the gist of Balls In's posts, but my general view is that they (the vaccine skeptical and anti-mandate side, if you want to put it like that) wanted to accord the unvaccinated equal access to society as the vaccinated and therein lies the general idea of 'with actions come consequences' - should an unvaccinated by choice person demand equal access to healthcare if they contract COVID? It has been a long running debate in this thread.

Think you're taking IS' post out of context.

Let's say that there are several viewpoints from which it could be argued that the current WA settings are unjustified. One is vaccine hesitancy, another is anti-mandate, and yet another is that now is a much better time to open up than any previous time, and likely to be as good as any in the future.

Getting to specifics. Should a person who is unvaccinated by choice demand equal access to healthcare if they contract COVID? Yes, absolutely. As should smokers who contract lung cancer, drinkers with cirrhosis, and obese people with diabetes. By all means deter them by other measures, but never threaten to remove the safety net of medical care. If that is somehow a long-running topic of debate, that seems to me a little unhinged - and just as extreme as the positions adopted by the loopiest anti-vaxxers. It's not even a serious policy position. No politician would go near it - not Mark McGowan, not Dan Andrews, not Jacinda Ardern.

If IS's statement about letting the unvaccinated die at home was mere hyperbole, and what he meant was just that we should make them show proof of vaccination in various public places, then that's fair enough. If the penalty for non-compliance is not being able to go to a concert, or not being able to buy a carton of beer, or even a fine, no worries. But invoking the withdrawal of healthcare is too much.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Disgraceful that you referred to McGowan as Stalin earlier. My grandparents left the Czech Republic after the 2nd world war, my grandmothers 7 brothers were all murdered by Stalin’s regime.
McGowan has done nothing but try to protects peoples lives and livelihoods.
You are a disgrace!

Some of my aunty's and uncles, whole villages, were murdered en masse by Hitler's henchmen, next door to Czech.

So spare me.

 

[Forward Press]

Some of my aunty's and uncles, whole villages, were murdered en masse by Hitler's henchmen, next door to Czech.

So spare me.

Do you still stand by your McGowan and Stalin comparison? Just wondering...

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Where is this coming from, people saying that we will be closed until 2024 or beyond? It's pretty obvious that the state is buying more time to get more boosters into arms, considering that the booster shot has generally been shown to reduce Covid-related hospitalisations by 80-90%, even when the booster effectiveness starts to wane after several weeks or months. I think you should put your **** on the block and say "yes I'm happy to kill off hundreds more people and possibly cripple the public health system because I didn't want to wait an extra few weeks to be able to go to Melbourne." I guess your response will be that McGowan spent two years not getting the health system ready for Covid, and there probably are valid criticisms in this area, but the fact of the matter is that in a universal health care system, a lot of the care is done by registrars and interns and there's almost never any extra wiggle room in the budget, let alone for a once-a-century global pandemic.

It seems like you're defining "life" as "being able to travel interstate or internationally without any restrictions whatsoever." You might be surprised that other people have different priorities.

Lol. By the time the 50-90% WA population takes up the booster, it’ll have worn off for the 0-50%

I guess it’ll then be, wait until you’ve all had the 2nd booster

Unbelievable my friends from the UK have seen my 7 month old son before my mum who’s in Perth

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Do you still stand by your McGowan and Stalin comparison? Just wondering...

Yes, and a range of other dictators

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Because making hospitality staff enforce a ridiculous no alcohol mandate will not have obvious connotations? I'm sticking with my "un-Australian" call by the end of the first week.

Yeah, grown adults screaming at hospo kids just doing their job is Unaustralian and has been forever?

For years they’d have been called a campaigner for doing it, then a Karen, but now it’s what, a freedom fighter?

 

[Balls In]

Yeah, grown adults screaming at kids just doing their job is Unaustralian and has been forever?

For years they’d have been called a campaigner for doing it, then a Karen, but now it’s what, a freedom fighter?

Those people are dickheads but it's the policy that is going to create the conflict. Clerks acting as compliance officers for a no alcohol mandate.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Those people are dickheads but it's the policy that is going to create the conflict. Clerks acting as compliance officers for a no alcohol mandate.

Clerks have been refusing service for some time. To those under 18. To those already intoxicated. To those without ID.

You're making it sound a lot worse than it will actually be. These people know they won't be able to enter these shops, and have alternative ways to get themselves alcohol.

It's really not a big deal.