Covid 19 (OPEN DISCUSSION)

[ziad]

Clerks have been refusing service for some time. To those under 18. To those already intoxicated. To those without ID.

You're making it sound a lot worse than it will actually be. These people know they won't be able to enter these shops, and have alternative ways to get themselves alcohol.

It's really not a big deal.

I breaking new I anounce home delivery

 

[Balls In]

Clerks have been refusing service for some time. To those under 18. To those already intoxicated. To those without ID.

You're making it sound a lot worse than it will actually be. These people know they won't be able to enter these shops, and have alternative ways to get themselves alcohol.

It's really not a big deal.

Fair points. I can actually see this pissing off vaccinated people more, being denied for not having their papers for whatever reason.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Fair points. I can actually see this pissing off vaccinated people more, being denied for not having their papers for whatever reason.

I spoke to a clerk up in Broome a few weeks back and he was pretty anxious about how people would react to the new rules coming in, so I understand your general point, but I think people will adapt and it will be fine in the end. It might actually sneakily do some good.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Fair points. I can actually see this pissing off vaccinated people more, being denied for not having their papers for whatever reason.

I was told mine was a fake certificate entering the new pub at Karrinyup last Sunday. I scanned in and showed the ServicesWA certificate before being prompted by the bouncer. He took my phone off me, told me it looks fake, and started scrolling around before somehow convincing himself it was all good.

Felt more like a power trip than anything but would've been interesting if he refused entry.

 

[Balls In]

I was told mine was a fake certificate entering the new pub at Karrinyup last Sunday. I scanned in and showed the ServicesWA certificate before being prompted by the bouncer. He took my phone off me, told me it looks fake, and started scrolling around before somehow convincing himself it was all good.

Felt more like a power trip than anything but would've been interesting if he refused entry.

The whole thing is absurd. 2.3m 90+% double and triple vaxxed people, masked, locked in and now forced to show a compliance certificate to buy a cheeky bourbon at the bottle O, for a disease that kills something like 0.03% of those who catch it.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

Lol. By the time the 50-90% WA population takes up the booster, it’ll have worn off for the 0-50%

I guess it’ll then be, wait until you’ve all had the 2nd booster

Unbelievable my friends from the UK have seen my 7 month old son before my mum who’s in Perth

That’s not how statistics work. The booster does not become completely or even mostly ineffective several months after the injection.

 

[boondy]

Earlier in the thread a reporter had gone over to Florida and in his article he said the average age of COVID deaths is 82 . He also stated prior to COVID the average age of death was 82 . That makes it sound like it hasn't made any difference . Well think about this .
If COVID only killed the elderly you would expect the average age of death to be higher . It actually shows that a lot of younger people also died to keep it average .
Also it is just the average age not the gross amount . If 1 million people in WA died tomorrow and the average age was 82 then on his argument that is no big deal .

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Had some drama at breakfast when the cafe decided to observe the vaccination requirement a day early, and dad hadn’t installed the ServiceWA app.

Thought there’d be fireworks but he was quite zen about the whole thing.

If my grumpy old man can put up with not being allowed service on a technicality even though he’s triple vaccinated, there’s hope for our poor endangered hospitality workers yet.

 

[amazingjoshy]

That’s not how statistics work. The booster does not become completely or even mostly ineffective several months after the injection.

It does begin to wane though, and even the WA CHO says that March is probably our peak immunity level

Mark McGowan has doubled down on WA's hard border. But as cases rise, will his hand be forced?

The WA Premier appears hesitant to set a new reopening date after his last-minute border backflip. But as concerns mount over booster vaccinations waning, it may prove hard to delay for long.

www.abc.net.au

However, many of the most vulnerable West Australians have already had a third dose and experts have warned the efficacy of that dose could soon begin to wane.

WA's Chief Health Officer Andy Robertson advised the government that beyond March, the waning of protection from boosters was anticipated to offset the gain of high rates, "particularly among the elderly and healthcare workers who were boosted early".

 

[boondy]

It does begin to wane though, and even the WA CHO says that March is probably our peak immunity level

Mark McGowan has doubled down on WA's hard border. But as cases rise, will his hand be forced?

The WA Premier appears hesitant to set a new reopening date after his last-minute border backflip. But as concerns mount over booster vaccinations waning, it may prove hard to delay for long.

www.abc.net.au

However, many of the most vulnerable West Australians have already had a third dose and experts have warned the efficacy of that dose could soon begin to wane.

WA's Chief Health Officer Andy Robertson advised the government that beyond March, the waning of protection from boosters was anticipated to offset the gain of high rates, "particularly among the elderly and healthcare workers who were boosted early".

Had some drama at breakfast when the cafe decided to observe the vaccination requirement a day early, and dad hadn’t installed the ServiceWA app.

Thought there’d be fireworks but he was quite zen about the whole thing.

If my grumpy old man can put up with not being allowed service on a technicality even though he’s triple vaccinated, there’s hope for our poor endangered hospitality workers yet.

The Medicare app lists your vaccination dates , couldn't you show them this app instead ?

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

That’s not how statistics work. The booster does not become completely or even mostly ineffective several months after the injection.

It does start to wane

What im saying is that the efficacy of everyone’s 2nd shot now is probably the same as what the efficacy of the booster once McGowan decides to open

Therefore, no difference between opening now or whenever he does decide to open

 

[Balls In]

It does start to wane

What im saying is that the efficacy of everyone’s 2nd shot now is probably the same as what the efficacy of the booster once McGowan decides to open

Therefore, no difference between opening now or whenever he does decide to open

The criticism levelled by the head of the AMA and all those 1000's of Dr's signing into that petition is that those at the highest risk, those older than 70, are approaching booster Vax rates of around 90 coinciding with Feb 5. Delaying just means their protection wanes, and a winter reopening coincides with the flu season.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Lol we’re still going with “thousands of doctors signed the petition” I see.

They didn’t, but if you say it enough times it’ll be true.

 

[darksquare]

Lol we’re still going with “thousands of doctors signed the petition” I see.

They didn’t, but if you say it enough times it’ll be true.

No doubt it's a Mickey Mouse petition. But that doesn't mean that everything in it is wrong. The argument that we should open the borders when most of the most vulnerable people have recently been boosted seems strong to me.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

It does start to wane

What im saying is that the efficacy of everyone’s 2nd shot now is probably the same as what the efficacy of the booster once McGowan decides to open

Therefore, no difference between opening now or whenever he does decide to open

33% of people boosted now versus I dunno, 75% in a month or two? I think it would be better to have 75% boosted.

As for your statement above, it is just false. The second shot and the booster both start to wane, but the booster gives significantly greater protection against hospitalisation than two regular doses.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

The whole thing is absurd. 2.3m 90+% double and triple vaxxed people, masked, locked in and now forced to show a compliance certificate to buy a cheeky bourbon at the bottle O, for a disease that kills something like 0.03% of those who catch it.

It has already killed about 0.3% of the US population so you may want to check your math on the lethality of the virus, especially given that most countries have reported about 1-6% mortality from Covid cases.

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[darksquare]

33% of people boosted now versus I dunno, 75% in a month or two?

This is really the key. I'd like to know what proportion of the vulnerable have been boosted now. They were eligible for their first doses earlier, so they've all been eligible for boosters for some time.

If, say, 80% of over-70s and those with identified risk factors had been boosted in the past couple of months, I'd rather open up now than wait for more healthy people to be vaccinated. There's no doubt that boosters are helpful - but they appear to be only half as helpful once 10 weeks have elapsed.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

This is really the key. I'd like to know what proportion of the vulnerable have been boosted now. They were eligible for their first doses earlier, so they've all been eligible for boosters for some time.

If, say, 80% of over-70s and those with identified risk factors had been boosted in the past couple of months, I'd rather open up now than wait for more healthy people to be vaccinated. There's no doubt that boosters are helpful - but they appear to be only half as helpful once 10 weeks have elapsed.

Half as healthy against symptomatic infections. Against severe infections (ie warding off hospitalisation) they appear to maintain 80% effectiveness even out to 4-6 months.

 

[Rowan18]

33% of people boosted now versus I dunno, 75% in a month or two? I think it would be better to have 75% boosted.

As for your statement above, it is just false. The second shot and the booster both start to wane, but the booster gives significantly greater protection against hospitalisation than two regular doses.

That graph doesn't show when people had the booster. Given it has only started being rolled out in the last few months (in most countries), odds are that the efficacy is still pretty strong.

 

[Scotland]

The whole thing is absurd. 2.3m 90+% double and triple vaxxed people, masked, locked in and now forced to show a compliance certificate to buy a cheeky bourbon at the bottle O, for a disease that kills something like 0.03% of those who catch it.

Don't worry, more restrictions are coming soon (to nightclubs) according to our gallant leader.

What I find interesting is that we can't open up because 'omicron changed everything' but people are justifying that on the basis of stats from overseas that are 90%+ made up of pre omicron data. What relevance to they have exactly?

 

[darksquare]

Half as healthy against symptomatic infections. Against severe infections (ie warding off hospitalisation) they appear to maintain 80% effectiveness even out to 4-6 months.

I don't think we have that evidence. ATAGI agrees.

 

[Doggies1972]

33% of people boosted now versus I dunno, 75% in a month or two? I think it would be better to have 75% boosted.

As for your statement above, it is just false. The second shot and the booster both start to wane, but the booster gives significantly greater protection against hospitalisation than two regular doses.

That Israel graph is from Oct 2021, based on data from july and August.
They've pretty much gone full 4 booster since then, and their infection rates have sky rocketed well over double their previous peaks.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

That Israel graph is from Oct 2021, based on data from july and August.
They've pretty much gone full 4 booster since then, and their infection rates have sky rocketed well over double their previous peaks.

Every country’s rates have skyrocketed due to Onicron. That doesn’t change the underlying effectiveness of the booster shot.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

I don't think we have that evidence. ATAGI agrees.

View attachment 1319084

I suggest reading the rest of that page.

ATAGI Statement on the Omicron variant and the timing of COVID-19 booster vaccination

A statement from the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) about the COVID-19 Omicron variant and the timing of COVID-19 booster vaccination.

www.health.gov.au

 

[ep2018]

By the time we hit 80+ percent boosters the omicron booster will be out. The goal posts will be moved again. I genuinely feel sorry for those who have family interstate and internationally, and people who travel for work.