Not a fluke but a year when everything definately went right. A bit like Bombers in 1993. Who cares....you won it, take it any day.
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Curtains for Hawthorn?
- Thread starter forwardflanker
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Not a fluke but a year when everything definately went right. A bit like Bombers in 1993. Who cares....you won it, take it any day.
Coming off a loss like that, it can be hard to see the positives. Collingwoods pressure was remarkable last night. Are we down and out? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Time will tell.
At the start of the year i said that if we were 4-0 or 3-1 we would be top 4. anything less we will be an "also ran" side. I think that's going to be right. 7-8th this year.
2008 was a year when everything went right. We built up to that from 2006, and in 2008 everyone peaked, and everything went right.
- Injuries and suspensions were minimal
- We had an "overweight" Dew who factored a big part in our season and especially our finals campaign
- 2 forwards who were both in top form
- a first year player that was remarkable (Rioli)
- and a game plan that was inventive (to an extent) and tough to beat.
When things go right for you success can easily happen. But when its turns to shit....see 2009 and early 2010.
The hunger and want seems to be lacking. "unsociable football" needs to make its return!!
At the start of the year i said that if we were 4-0 or 3-1 we would be top 4. anything less we will be an "also ran" side. I think that's going to be right. 7-8th this year.
2008 was a year when everything went right. We built up to that from 2006, and in 2008 everyone peaked, and everything went right.
- Injuries and suspensions were minimal
- We had an "overweight" Dew who factored a big part in our season and especially our finals campaign
- 2 forwards who were both in top form
- a first year player that was remarkable (Rioli)
- and a game plan that was inventive (to an extent) and tough to beat.
When things go right for you success can easily happen. But when its turns to shit....see 2009 and early 2010.
The hunger and want seems to be lacking. "unsociable football" needs to make its return!!
Falchoon
Brownlow Medallist
- Feb 15, 2002
- 29,727
- 10,934
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Bluestar Airlines, Anacott Steel
Hawthorn have won 10 of their last 26.
Games against the likes of North, Carlton, West Coast and Essendon are 50/50 games at best.
if we don't beat North and Essendon yes we are in trouble.
Collingwood are a great side who brought their A game last night. We need to regroup and get back to basics.
we lead the cats and the dogs in the last qtr with at least 6 of our best 22 out.
Collingwood are a great side who brought their A game last night. We need to regroup and get back to basics.
Hawthorn were woeful last night and I'm not sure if any inclusions would have helped. We are a much better side than that, just not last night. Last night is old history now. However, we are a side (just like 08) that relies on being at full strength to be a genuine contender. That’s when we are dangerous.
With some of our regular 22 back in soon, I think we will play a whole lot better. Just like Geelongs loss to Freo, we were missing our FF, FB and our backup ruckman. We desperately miss Sewell, Hooper has been good for us but is injured and we recruited Burgoyne to play not to be on the side lines.
Take Williams, Hall, Minson, Griffen and Cross from the Dogs and that’s similar to where we are at. Take the spine and a couple of top mids from any squad and they will struggle.
No excuses last night though. Hawthorn were crap and outplayed by the Pies.
With some of our regular 22 back in soon, I think we will play a whole lot better. Just like Geelongs loss to Freo, we were missing our FF, FB and our backup ruckman. We desperately miss Sewell, Hooper has been good for us but is injured and we recruited Burgoyne to play not to be on the side lines.
Take Williams, Hall, Minson, Griffen and Cross from the Dogs and that’s similar to where we are at. Take the spine and a couple of top mids from any squad and they will struggle.
No excuses last night though. Hawthorn were crap and outplayed by the Pies.
It is not curtains but it is not looking promising either. Hawks should make the 8 but I dont think they are contenders this year.
At the moment there are half dozen or more of their best 22 missing, half a dozen or more senior players playing like $%#&, and half a dozen others who are pretty much not ready yet to lead a premiership charge (some of those may never be ready).
The Hawks won the premiership in 08 because firstly everything went right (full list to choose from, in form at the right time, confident, etc. etc.) and secondly they played like a team possessed.
Sadly neither of these two things happened last night.
At the moment there are half dozen or more of their best 22 missing, half a dozen or more senior players playing like $%#&, and half a dozen others who are pretty much not ready yet to lead a premiership charge (some of those may never be ready).
The Hawks won the premiership in 08 because firstly everything went right (full list to choose from, in form at the right time, confident, etc. etc.) and secondly they played like a team possessed.
Sadly neither of these two things happened last night.
heard that twice last year
The problem the Hawks will face is that they have so many injuries to key players they might fall into the trap of rushing them all back.
Then suddenly you have half a dozen blokes at 80% match fitness running around and you can get into trouble. The Hawks are undoubtably in the best 5 sides when they have the full compliment, but there is a difference between having your best 22 out there and having your best 22 out there, but 6 of them are underdone.
Sewell, Young, Rioli, Burgoyne will all likely be in the side in the next few weeks and I doubt any are more than 85% fit. Then you now have Mitchell with a bit of a hammy, an exhausted ruckman, Gibson gone for 10+ weeks and there is no way Jordan Lewis was 100% last night.
Then suddenly you have half a dozen blokes at 80% match fitness running around and you can get into trouble. The Hawks are undoubtably in the best 5 sides when they have the full compliment, but there is a difference between having your best 22 out there and having your best 22 out there, but 6 of them are underdone.
Sewell, Young, Rioli, Burgoyne will all likely be in the side in the next few weeks and I doubt any are more than 85% fit. Then you now have Mitchell with a bit of a hammy, an exhausted ruckman, Gibson gone for 10+ weeks and there is no way Jordan Lewis was 100% last night.
Big Fozza
Premiership Player
I dent watch the game last night but by the sounds of it collingwood were tackling crazy. When they apply that pressure noone can stop them.
It's round 4- hawks will still make the 8. There's a lot worse teams
It's round 4- hawks will still make the 8. There's a lot worse teams
We will win the flag from outside the top 4.
Only need 14 or so wins to garuntee 5-6.
so 13 out of the next 18 is more then likely
Only need 14 or so wins to garuntee 5-6.
so 13 out of the next 18 is more then likely
Totally understand mate, I cringe at plenty of Hawk nominated members posts.
I had plenty complaining around me that the Hawks weren't kicking it around the packs but the pressure the hawks had from the pies to get it clear enough to kick it, not to mention the pressure from the pies backman to cut off any options making them hold it a bit longer.
to me, it's much more than just a loss.
you have players like Ellis, Murphy, Gilham, Moss that are going backwards, and there's not enough depth to cover them
important players that are unfit or in terrible form
and a coach that has no plan B when coming into a game
you have players like Ellis, Murphy, Gilham, Moss that are going backwards, and there's not enough depth to cover them
important players that are unfit or in terrible form
and a coach that has no plan B when coming into a game
Strapping Young Lad
Moderator
- Apr 19, 2006
- 100,036
- 249,344
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
- Moderator
- #39
Last night is a prime of example of what happens if your opponent consistently beats you on the spread.
We looked out of it early. No run, poor skills, and too few left to do the hard stuff.
No surprise that Geelong lost on the road after a 6 day break, then the Bulldogs last night. Rounds 2 and 3 caught up with us last night also.
We looked out of it early. No run, poor skills, and too few left to do the hard stuff.
No surprise that Geelong lost on the road after a 6 day break, then the Bulldogs last night. Rounds 2 and 3 caught up with us last night also.
Strapping Young Lad
Moderator
- Apr 19, 2006
- 100,036
- 249,344
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
- Moderator
- #40
I guess you missed round 2 and 3 then?
- Apr 3, 2006
- 34,254
- 12,914
- AFL Club
- Geelong
They've won 2 of their last 8. Wins against Tigers and Demons.
Strapping Young Lad
Moderator
- Apr 19, 2006
- 100,036
- 249,344
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
- Moderator
- #43
Really.Real contenders don't get bent over like that, its that simple.
Round 9, 2008. Look it up.
It's not 2008 any more, even though the names on your list are the same its not the same hungry group anymore, & the games also evolved. I guess time will tell but that's the way i see it, & before you ask no i don't think we are contenders either.
Hawthorn is good side, got a good list, had tough run, unfortunate that Buddy suspended and Roughead out of form co-incided. They could do with a decent ruck and a decent strong defender.
but I think last nights loss was all about gameplan tactics. If the monothematic pies have worked out way to play the cluster, then maybe it's just busted.
The Hawks game plan is built around plying a one defence in numbers. Tossing the ball around with hand ball and running in numbers. When it works the lack of a monster defender isnt felt as the ball comes long due to the zone and the zoned off defenders can get a run up and spoil (where the numbers back mean the Hawks in numbers have strong chance of getting the crumb) The hand ball ping pong is very well drilled into the hawks, they just keep giving handblls s the numbers back men eventually it just gets to someone in the clear and they can run in numbers.
But when it goes wrong, the oppoistion is down in numbers pressing all the hawks defence, the players instinctive drill to defend in zone position, always give the handbll under pressure, to instintcively go for the uncontested option now start to work against them, mind you when the counter attack gets free there is open space to run into thus the easy hawks goals last night.
Tactics are a two edged sword. All tactics have a use-by date eventually a way is found to counter. The Hawks have the most extreme tactical system where it just dominates their game, there players are drilled to instinctively do the tactical thing which happens to be pretty much the reverse of traditional one on one footy. Most teams when the tactics revert to one on one footy as the fall back, with the Hawks the problem is gameplan teaches them not to play one on one footy. Their gameplan also invloves the entire team doing the tactical thing, a few inexperinced players struggling with the tactics makes it harder to introduce new players. Obiviously there are quite few Hawk players that do adapt back to one on one footy easily but in the weker links in the team it leaves some instinctively learned instincts that are just wrong for one on one footy.
Tactics are a two edged sword, the more extreme the tactical system the greater cost when it fails.
** Disclaimer pugsville is a rabid traditional football fan, who does not respect the St Kilda and Hawthorn games plansand despertely wants to see them fail.
but I think last nights loss was all about gameplan tactics. If the monothematic pies have worked out way to play the cluster, then maybe it's just busted.
The Hawks game plan is built around plying a one defence in numbers. Tossing the ball around with hand ball and running in numbers. When it works the lack of a monster defender isnt felt as the ball comes long due to the zone and the zoned off defenders can get a run up and spoil (where the numbers back mean the Hawks in numbers have strong chance of getting the crumb) The hand ball ping pong is very well drilled into the hawks, they just keep giving handblls s the numbers back men eventually it just gets to someone in the clear and they can run in numbers.
But when it goes wrong, the oppoistion is down in numbers pressing all the hawks defence, the players instinctive drill to defend in zone position, always give the handbll under pressure, to instintcively go for the uncontested option now start to work against them, mind you when the counter attack gets free there is open space to run into thus the easy hawks goals last night.
Tactics are a two edged sword. All tactics have a use-by date eventually a way is found to counter. The Hawks have the most extreme tactical system where it just dominates their game, there players are drilled to instinctively do the tactical thing which happens to be pretty much the reverse of traditional one on one footy. Most teams when the tactics revert to one on one footy as the fall back, with the Hawks the problem is gameplan teaches them not to play one on one footy. Their gameplan also invloves the entire team doing the tactical thing, a few inexperinced players struggling with the tactics makes it harder to introduce new players. Obiviously there are quite few Hawk players that do adapt back to one on one footy easily but in the weker links in the team it leaves some instinctively learned instincts that are just wrong for one on one footy.
Tactics are a two edged sword, the more extreme the tactical system the greater cost when it fails.
** Disclaimer pugsville is a rabid traditional football fan, who does not respect the St Kilda and Hawthorn games plansand despertely wants to see them fail.
- Sep 25, 2006
- 18,144
- 14,153
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- FC Barcelona, Liverpool, FC Bayern
Hawks will be fine IMO.
As others have said, Pies were just "on" last night. Wouldn't have mattered if Brereton, Langford, Dunstall and Matthews were playing last night, the Hawks' overuse of the footy added to Collingwood's ability to break their zone (for the first time ever which shocked me to be honest) was brilliant.
Pressure was sensational, ball use was awesome and hardness around the footy/man was red-hot from the Pies.
Sure, Sewell, Gibson, Buddy and perhaps Taylor would help in any game but the Hawks just had far too may passengers last night and too many players that are just completely out of form. Defence is their major worry IMO- everywhere else they will be fine.
Collingwood just dominated the game from start to finish.
As others have said, Pies were just "on" last night. Wouldn't have mattered if Brereton, Langford, Dunstall and Matthews were playing last night, the Hawks' overuse of the footy added to Collingwood's ability to break their zone (for the first time ever which shocked me to be honest) was brilliant.
Pressure was sensational, ball use was awesome and hardness around the footy/man was red-hot from the Pies.
Sure, Sewell, Gibson, Buddy and perhaps Taylor would help in any game but the Hawks just had far too may passengers last night and too many players that are just completely out of form. Defence is their major worry IMO- everywhere else they will be fine.
Collingwood just dominated the game from start to finish.
bombermick
Norm Smith Medallist
Discounting last night, the Hawks have looked pretty good in their losing games this year. They have played against the top sides and given them a good shake. They will make finals if they can be be thereabouts when they get some players back.
However, they wouldn't want to get much further behind the pack. They are already 1-3, so finals are already shaky. Say they get to 2-5, can they possibly come back from that?
However, they wouldn't want to get much further behind the pack. They are already 1-3, so finals are already shaky. Say they get to 2-5, can they possibly come back from that?
Strapping Young Lad
Moderator
- Apr 19, 2006
- 100,036
- 249,344
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Storm, Spurs, Socceroos
- Moderator
- #48
The reference was to Geelongs 80pt loss to Collingwood.
On Hawthorn, our players were hungry and skilled in games against both Geelong and the Dogs recently.
Unfortunately, one bad loss renders people unable to recognise our form up to that point.
Good thread, but this bit was unnecessary.
If you look at the points against colum in the AFL ladder for 2010 you would see Points against - Pies 306, Carlton - 321, Hawks - 384, North 430
That would make pies defense 15 points away from being "inept"...
Couldnt have heard a more true statement mate, Had there been any sort of pressure like the hawks usually apply they wouldnt have got near the ball.
