News Cyril and Shannyn Rioli speak to Caro - link to club statement in page 8

[Hawthorn23]

Some further developments to the story in the video below:

Mod edit: it’s a must watch for anyone reading this thread.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

There is zero chance you were around for any of those moments. Zero.

I know this because you're giving yourself up. Keep watching documentaries to tell you what actually happened.

Fraud.

I was most definitely there.


I’d tread very carefully.

 

[flinchfree]

Why the need to threaten?

We’re not children.

We all understand why Wingard was boo’d last week.

To liken every issue to Goodes shows a lack of understanding and in part is virtue signalling.

This is a sensitive matter, I and others understand this. To have varied opinions doesn’t make a person racist.


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Every time you say something you believe in, is that virtue signalling?

It's tiring to read that as some sort of dump, it can be turned around on every person in the world.
Standing up for what you believe in is a stance. Not virtue signalling.

 

[derp de derp]

Every time you say something you believe in, is that virtue signalling?

It's tiring to read that as some sort of dump, it can be turned around on every person in the world.
Standing up for what you believe in is a stance. Not virtue signalling.

The point I was trying to make is making threats and implying someone is racist doesn’t help.

Everyone should be encouraged to have open and honest conversations.

We can all agree education is the key and that doesn’t happen by shutting down half of the conversation.

To paint everyone with the same brush is hypocritical. Labelling people for having a difference of opinion based on varied life experiences is myopic.

It is not racist to ask why this issue is being tethered to an attempt to remove Jeff.

It is virtue signalling (true or otherwise) to suggest this is the reason why he should be removed.


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[flinchfree]

The point I was trying to make is making threats and implying someone is racist doesn’t help.

Everyone should be encouraged to have open and honest conversations.

We can all agree education is the key and that doesn’t happen by shutting down half of the conversation.

To paint everyone with the same brush is hypocritical. Labelling people for having a difference of opinion based on varied life experiences is myopic.

It is not racist to ask why this issue is being tethered to an attempt to remove Jeff.

It is virtue signalling (true or otherwise) to suggest this is the reason why he should be removed.


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Nah mate, it's not virtue signalling.
He's a pig of a human being and has displayed that characteristic over and over again.
You taking time to argue against whether his comment to Shannyn was racist or not and whether people have the right to be offended on behalf of the clearly offended Cyril and Shannyn is stupid. Intentionally racist or not, his inability to cogently explain his position of having hurt them so deeply suggests he believes he's above having to do so.
Much like many on here who are so riled by being asked to be culturally sensitive. It's too much work for them, so they grab for words like woke and virtue signalling.
Be better.
Ask those around you to be better.
Don't settle for less than your best efforts to cause no harm while you set upon living your life.

It's not ****ing hard.
But it is for Jeff.
So he should go.

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

Everyone should be encouraged to have open and honest conversations.

Your replies are nonsense. Full of deflections, whataboutisms, and strawman arguments. What's quoted above is the most disingenuous part, though.

"I apologised. What more do you want?" – Jeff Kennett

He shut down the conversation. He chose not to understand why what he said was (so obviously) racist and hurtful. As the President of our club, he had a responsibility to further an open and honest conversation. Instead, he attacked and shut down that avenue, leading directly to the early retirement of one of our greatest ever players.

And you think it's political. Being thick can't be changed, but being racist can.

 

[SSSSSS]

Kind of ****s with my mind that people think 'racism is bad' is some sort of agenda that is being pushed. It should be a given.

 

[MistyAvalon]

I will go read this article.. but Caro actually likes the Hwks.. she would probably rather die than admit it.. but every now and then a little give away slips out...

 

[derp de derp]

Your replies are nonsense. Full of deflections, whataboutisms, and strawman arguments. What's quoted above is the most disingenuous part, though.

"I apologised. What more do you want?" – Jeff Kennett

He shut down the conversation. He chose not to understand why what he said was (so obviously) racist and hurtful. As the President of our club, he had a responsibility to further an open and honest conversation. Instead, he attacked and shut down that avenue, leading directly to the early retirement of one of our greatest ever players.

And you think it's political. Being thick can't be changed, but being racist can.

There is nothing more disingenuous than what you just said.

You are saying anything but your opinion is not worth acknowledging. There is no “whataboutisms” In anything I had previously said.

You personify what is wrong with these kind of conversations. You set an agenda and set to achieve it and label anything you disagree with.


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[derp de derp]

Nah mate, it's not virtue signalling.
He's a pig of a human being and has displayed that characteristic over and over again.
You taking time to argue against whether his comment to Shannyn was racist or not and whether people have the right to be offended on behalf of the clearly offended Cyril and Shannyn is stupid. Intentionally racist or not, his inability to cogently explain his position of having hurt them so deeply suggests he believes he's above having to do so.
Much like many on here who are so riled by being asked to be culturally sensitive. It's too much work for them, so they grab for words like woke and virtue signalling.
Be better.
Ask those around you to be better.
Don't settle for less than your best efforts to cause no harm while you set upon living your life.

It's not ******* hard.
But it is for Jeff.
So he should go.

He is a pig, and dinosaurs should die.

I don’t see any rational person here excusing the behaviour.

But the way this is being reported and hijacked by groups with intent to destroy individuals with no consideration to the club or the playing group is poor.


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[Denver Day Lewis]

I read caros article. The player who said the b**ng comment should have been stood down or educated. Jeffs comment tho was a standard 'dad' jokej in the 90s to grunge kids. Its not racial. I am asking out of curiousity to the incident. Threatening to 'ban me' does nothing to educate - its why cancel culture has failed to fix a thing.

Before u assume, I am a ALP voter & also have 6 aborigjnal kids in my extended family. I am trying to understand how a dad joke about jeans is a "big story" a decade later?

Generally, one can assume ill-intent on these boards from other clubs' posters. But my attempt at a joke whiffed over your head. I'm not a mod, and obviously you can read. But you have chosen to ignore the well-stated arguments in this thread explaining how Kennett's actions from a man in his specific position are racist, and reflect a total lack of empathy, of self-awareness, and a total leadership vacuum.

Diminishing what Kennett said as a 'Dad joke' is apologist. It's not a Dad joke just because it's not remotely funny and hasn't ever been.

If you say it to your own daughter, it could be implied as follows;
• "I'm old, why do young people wear clothes like this?"
• "I'm old and rich. You don't have money. I do."

This is why humour exists. In certain contexts you can say the above and it is funny.

But the subject is not his daughter. It's offensive because the implications go beyond just appearance. It is possible to infer the following from what he said;
• "You are a woman and you are exposing too much flesh."
• "You are Indigenous and you don't have the money to pay for new clothes."
• "I am in a position of power, we are not peers, and I do not respect you."

His intention is irrelevant. The old white man making the joke doesn't get to decide whether it is offensive, or merely distasteful and unfunny.

Shannyn was the recipient of the attempt at humour. She decides how it is taken. She communicated that to the club, and to the President.

Worse, once the offence was pointed out to him, Kennett didn't apologise, he queefed out a non-apology ("I'm sorry you were offended", the Eddie McGuire defence.)

None of which addresses the club's other failures during this whole saga.

And the fact that we are discussing ripped jeans and Dad jokes in this thread helps explain why this country is still a racist backwater.

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

There is nothing more disingenuous than what you just said.

You are saying anything but your opinion is not worth acknowledging. There is no “whataboutisms” In anything I had previously said.

You personify what is wrong with these kind of conversations. You set an agenda and set to achieve it and label anything you disagree with.

Repeating other people's words back to them doesn't make an argument, especially when you haven't a clue what they mean.

As Strapping Young Lad so eloquently put it, dig up, stupid!

 

[flinchfree]

I read caros article. The player who said the b**ng comment should have been stood down or educated. Jeffs comment tho was a standard 'dad' jokej in the 90s to grunge kids. Its not racial. I am asking out of curiousity to the incident. Threatening to 'ban me' does nothing to educate - its why cancel culture has failed to fix a thing.

Before u assume, I am a ALP voter & also have 6 aborigjnal kids in my extended family. I am trying to understand how a dad joke about jeans is a "big story" a decade later?

It's a story because Caro saw the opportunity to make it a story.

It's painful because it wasn't the version of the dad joke many of us grew up with. Which was usually an older rello asking if the jeans with rips we were wearing came that way? Followed by 'did they charge you extra for the holes' and a laugh.

In this instance, this was a older middle aged white guy approaching an unrelated aboriginal woman in her mid 20's, who had just had the honor of designing our home and away jersey to be used that weekend, and would have been feeling huge pride in herself and for her people at the time, being asked what she was wearing, and after saying jeans......then asking Jeff why, and him pulling out some loose change from his pocket and telling her he'd help her buy some clothes.
It would have been humiliating.

It just wasn't the same as the dad joke. It was clearly a put down by someone who felt he was in a position to do so, a socio economic shot, and possibly a statement about her ability to spend their income on things he deemed appropriate.
Maybe racial. Maybe subconsciously. Absolutely not innocent.

And it couldn't be fixed by the President of our Club sufficiently well our 28 year old champion of the game left and retired.
Which disgusts many of us.
As though Jeff telling public media that he couldn't care less how a black woman like Oprah might feel incredibly uncomfortable seeing golliwog dolls around her, speaks insufficiently well to his arrogant condescending self well enough.

It's not rocket science.

 

[derp de derp]

Repeating other people's words back to them doesn't make an argument, especially when you haven't a clue what they mean.

As Strapping Young Lad so eloquently put it, dig up, stupid!

You say whilst repeating other peoples words.

Ok.. enjoy Twitter.

Maybe I’m to blame for not understanding this has now become an echo chamber.


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[mcnulty]

It just wasn't the same as the dad joke. It was clearly a put down by someone who felt he was in a position to do so, a socio economic shot, and possibly a statement about her ability to spend their income on things he deemed appropriate.

You’re making a lot of assumptions here, some of which don’t hold up under logical scrutiny. A “socioeconomic shot?” No, as Kennett would have been fully aware of how much money Rioli was making at the time. You can’t extrapolate comments like that as part of some grander narrative. You just can’t.

Its not clear at all to me, particularly as we’ve only heard one side of the story.

 

[Winged Fang]

His intention is irrelevant. The old white man making the joke doesn't get to decide whether it is offensive, or merely distasteful and unfunny.

Shannyn was the recipient of the attempt at humour. She decides how it is taken.

This

And more to the point, the focus has been on one comment/incident. However Kennetts history of never willing to accept or admit when he’s wrong only makes his “apology” less sincere. Is he sorry, or sorry he was called out? Entitled, self-serving, power-tripper.

 

[flinchfree]

You’re making a lot of assumptions here, some of which don’t hold up under logical scrutiny. A “socioeconomic shot?” No, as Kennett would have been fully aware of how much money Rioli was making at the time. You can’t extrapolate comments like that as part of some grander narrative. You just can’t.

Its not clear at all to me, particularly as we’ve only heard one side of the story.

So you think, an old white guy who is rich as ****, pulling out change from his pocket to offer an aboriginal women so she can afford to buy unripped clothes, has no socioeconomic aspect?

Ok. You're not up for genuine discussion.

 

[mcnulty]

So you think, an old white guy who is rich as fu**, pulling out change from his pocket to offer an aboriginal women so she can afford to buy unripped clothes, has no socioeconomic aspect?

Ok. You're not up for genuine discussion.

No, as has been said countless times, it’s a variation of a very old joke. Your ASSUMPTION, is that there was an socioeconomic angle to this. But it’s just an assumption. Rioli would have been on 500k, a fact both parties would have been aware of.

Youre right though, there‘s no sensible discussion to be had here. You’re a struggler.

 

[SSSSSS]

Sounds like Sam is on the right track at least (as far as words are, need to see actions) to try and mend the hurt.

 

[MistyAvalon]

We lost one of our best players because Kennett teased his partner over a pair of jeans............... shakes head, knowing this will rile some.. the whole situation is so damn ridiculous ... one of our best.

As for the horrible b,,,g comment.. that is vile and should never have been said

but serioiusly over jeans.....................

 

[kazzooka]

Yep so it leaves.
Anderson, Bruest, Ceglar, Duryea, Bud, Gunstan, Hill, Obrien, Shiels and Smith.

I don't think that it is a current player you made the slur. I read it as a senior hawthorn player made the comment in 2013 to a young aboriginal player (who is currently playing at another club Anderson, hill, not buddy as isn't young in 2013) Cyril heard it.

Whole leadership group blew off the complaint too.

 

[kazzooka]

We lost one of our best players because Kennett teased his partner over a pair of jeans............... shakes head, knowing this will rile some.. the whole situation is so damn ridiculous ... one of our best.

As for the horrible b,,,g comment.. that is vile and should never have been said

but serioiusly over jeans.....................

It's crazy isn't it? If i were at the club at the time i would have been given jeff the warning to do everything to make amends and if not possible resign immediately.

If he didn't you go straight to the media and make it known that Cyril is leaving because of Jeff. There'd be 10,000 hawks fans outside his door an hour later looking to take his head off.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Does anyone understand why this interview occurred other than another attempt to slander the club?

If Nardia Bartel was the partner involved would half these discussions be happening?

Racism exists everywhere. Only the aboriginal players within the club can honestly speak on how well they felt they were supported.

I honestly hope this isn’t part of a political attack on Jeff.


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A third article today in The Age demanding Kennett's immediate resignation. No mention of all the other issues raised by the Riolis.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Only just had a chance to read the article and also this thread.

My thoughts regarding the Jean joke is that on it's own, is just a lazy attempt of humour. I've heard older men make these jokes many times, yet to be funny but it's more common than I'd like.
However, there's clearly been more than one occasion leading up to this where things have been said and this has lead to how this 'joke' was received. I think many in this thread are looking at the isolated incident and not recognising the greater context that is hinted at in the article.

The bigger concern is the incidents of blatant racism and the inaction of the club/players who were aware of it. Your workplace should be inclusive and supportive, if you get dismissed when hurtful comments are made then you can feel isolated and you have every right to be angry.

I liked reading how Mitchell has reached out and was looking to improve the club, he seems genuinely interested in building a strong culture.

As for Kennett, he needs to go. He's already planned to depart, no point waiting. He'll be able to retire into a cosy job on Sky News after dark with all the other smooth brained hacks.

 

[Armchairexpert 22]

Shannyn is currently working in the fashion industry in Melbourne, if one of her colleagues made a joke about clothes Cyril was wearing would he get deeply offended and would she pack up her bags quit her job and go home?? No way!!
Cyril is currently working with indigenous offenders (that’s fantastic) and I know he would be very encouraging and positive with them. So let me get this straight in his eyes it is ok to commit violence or theft against someone but a bad joke or using a name for someone that was most likely never meant to offend anyone is unforgivable regardless of the amount of apologies given.

 

[Brishawk]

Another person trying to tell me what I lived and saw with my own eyes was all fake. I was living in the Matrix obviously.

It's the documentaries that tell the real truth. They're so great. They're definitely not deliberately made to push a specific agenda or angle.

People on this very forum cited his Australian of the year acceptance as a reason for booing. That is, until they realised most people viewed that as racist and they concealed that reason behind others. That is a fact.