Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[gymjam]

I take it that Wendy would have witnessed any at scene treatment given to FF and had a chat with the ambulance attendees to gain insight to reactions of those present etc. Did Wendy offer any detail if she had received a phone alert to attend 48 as a direct consequence of the ambulance call-out? Would someone have called 000 from the residence landline or their mobile and Wendy was pre-advised of who had called, prior to her arrival? Did Wendy make any note detailing if FF was taken by ambulance to a hospital or medical facility eg doctor's rooms in say the Laurieton area or thereabouts? So many questions - please don't feel pressured to answer all of them!

Thank you for you reply - very appreciated.

According to Wendy's notes she arrived at the house when the ambulance was already there. So she would not have witnessed whatever caused the ambulance to be ca

 

[Angry Red Bull]

How confused the child must have been. What an awful nightmare to live a life through. Even everything about your real identity and your real bioligical parents stripped away even your self stripped away until there was nothing left but darling children hiding under tables, too afraid to sleep,kicking and biting, cutting hair of kinder mates to change their appearance like they were changed, throwing things, begging not to be hurt anymore, crying out for help, being locked outside because you dared as a 2yo to soil a nappy, being sworn at and hit and kicked and bruised ... oh the horse did that, and told to sit on a marble floor and threatened if you soiled the floor your face would be rubbed in it ... all because you were denied toilet relief whilst sitting out a punishment session.

This is a mummy dearest horror story!

Geez the children were even forced by these 2 wonderful caring loving foster carers to call their real biological mother 'biomum' and father 'biodad' as reported in the media. tThe fister carers must be so proud they are too scared to reveal themselves or is it really they are too embarrased to show their own real identity.it will happen one day and more stories may finally see the very bright light of day.

Its damn crazy ... did someone push the big red button and say step into my wonderful world of our nutty farm experiment?

If this story was made into a true story movie script it would have to be placed in the 'horror genre' for sure. Who would be chosen to play the make believers?

And to have a sick twist to it......a highly experienced detective GJ (whoops another abbreviation). thought they were beyond suspicion.....even NOW. Seriously?

I've mentioned 3 charges that can legitimately be raised. There is possibly another 10. Keep these arseholes on the spike for the next 10 years. Thats what I would do.

OR be honest !!!!.....and accountable

 

[Poppy Penny]

And to have a sick twist to it......a highly experienced detective GJ thought they were beyond suspicion.....even NOW. Seriously?

I've mentioned 3 charges that can legitimately be raised. There is possibly another 10. Keep these arseholes on the spike for the next 10 years. Thats what I would do.

OR be honest !!!!.....and accountable

Jubelin must be beside himself especially after listening to audio of FP in relation to FD. Most would be mortified but it seems GJ thought hugs were in order.

 

[31550]

I take it that Wendy would have witnessed any at scene treatment given to FF and had a chat with the ambulance attendees to gain insight to reactions of those present etc. Did Wendy offer any detail if she had received a phone alert to attend 48 as a direct consequence of the ambulance call-out? Would someone have called 000 from the residence landline or their mobile and Wendy was pre-advised of who had called, prior to her arrival? Did Wendy make any note detailing if FF was taken by ambulance to a hospital or medical facility eg doctor's rooms in say the Laurieton area or thereabouts? So many questions - please don't feel pressured to answer all of them!

Thank you for you reply - very appreciated.

No reason to assume that Wendy witnessed treatment. She does not indicate that she engaged with the ambos. She went to the house from the command post AFTER she was informed that an ambulance was attending. So presumably someone at the command post told her. No idea who called the ambulance. No indication that FF left the FGM house at all as a result of the ambulance visit. he appears to have gone to bed around 9pm.

 

[31550]

And to have a sick twist to it......a highly experienced detective GJ (whoops another abbreviation). thought they were beyond suspicion.....even NOW. Seriously?

I've mentioned 3 charges that can legitimately be raised. There is possibly another 10. Keep these arseholes on the spike for the next 10 years. Thats what I would do.

OR be honest !!!!.....and accountable

I can understand your anger and emotion about this, but IMO we can't let that prejudice our view of what may or may not have happened - we have to rely on the evidence.

The biggest problem I have right now is that there has not been a single acknowledgement of any responsibility or an "I'm sorry!" from the fosters. Sorry does not mean admission of liability, just an acknowledgement that YOU were responsible for keeping this child safe, and you failed in that duty. Fault or no fault, the fosters and FACS and the NSW Government have to own up that William disappeared on their watch. Just say sorry FFS. I can't get past this attitude and pretence that they are somehow victims in this.

 

[MsTeschmacher]

This boy has been forgotten.
SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER HAVE HAPPENED.

Look at the date.
Not a good weekend for the so called child protection agencies.

https://news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/devastated-father-demands-answers-after-son-dies-in-foster-care/news-story/0878a8b0cf266704f567e6a1e3111296

Sadly I could tell you many stories of foster families who should not be caring for any children. If this large amount of money was invested supporting the families of origin there would be better outcomes short & long term. Make no mistake fostering is a money making machine for some organisations.


There are amazing carers out there but there is still far too many "bad apples" milking the system for their own reasons.

 

[js47]

I understand an ambulance attended. Do you know of any media reports please?

Was there a doctor on call in the general area say to laurieton location? I personally think he may have overdosed. Wasnt nsw police Wendy Hudson present when he collapsed?

I only visit now once a year but I doubt a 24hour doctor.
Wendy Hudson did call in but to my understanding the fosters were in bed and only FGM was up.
We will never know what was in the ambulance officer’s notes. I can only try to work out the visit because I lived in The Camden Haven I am a retired RN nurse (registered) and have four years experience in drug and alcohol.
He may have overdosed I would guess not on purpose.
Mixing certain drugs with alcohol is not a good idea.

 

[js47]

The house photos were publicly displayed online when the property was placed on the market in 2020.

Absolutely stunning showpiece.

Excellent deflection of the real issue! Who are you?

 

[gymjam]

William's weight doesn't bother me.
If he has energy he's fine.
I suppose you could have asked the childcare centre if he seemed lethargic, and ask about his eating habits while he was there.

If he was prescribed something you could ask his GP or paediatrician.

I don't think the police would ask these questions anyway.

Be hard to work out the dosage for a little kid if they were giving him FFs meds, not that they would even be recommended for a 3 year old.

Were the anxiety tablets the only script he got filled?

Were there any meds lying around when the police turned up?
Or kids medicine anywhere?

Is it known his meds were strictly anxiety related?

His employment record showed he worked in the very stressful dog-eat-dog and high stakes real estate industry that depends on level of sales achieved and commission-only payment systems. I would consider hypertension would be an issue and how much alcohol he consumed on a daily basis. There were questions asked of FM if he was a gambler. I am aware many of the phone calls that he initiated in Sydney were pinging off cell towers in very close proximity to horse racing courses. Was he in financial distress - that could lead to a whole variety of medical problems IMO.

Did he attend work functions at a casino?

 

[js47]

According to Wendy's notes she arrived at the house when the ambulance was already there. So she would not have witnessed whatever caused the ambulance to be called.

Thanks for that 31550 little by little you info helps build up a clearer picture.

 

[LRitz]

No reason to assume that Wendy witnessed treatment. She does not indicate that she engaged with the ambos. She went to the house from the command post AFTER she was informed that an ambulance was attending. So presumably someone at the command post told her. No idea who called the ambulance. No indication that FF left the FGM house at all as a result of the ambulance visit. he appears to have gone to bed around 9pm.
View attachment 2171381

Maybe he was feeling a bit better by the time ambulance arrived. Checked him over. Reassured FF. (yes you do have a pulse) And ambulance left. Possible. Maybe FF or someone else panicked a bit? Do we know who called the ambulance. Sounds like all police had left at that time but is not clear. Could not have been much of an episode, again IMO.

If he had ended up in Emergency, there would have been travel time, wait to be assessed, and maybe at that time of night keep for a bit of observation. PC Hudson says Ambulance was called at 6:45. As you said she was not at the house and did not return until 9:00. My estimation, IMO, he would have not been back in the house until after midnight if he went somewhere. I guess he did not go any where that night by ambulance.

 

[31550]

Thanks for that 31550 little by little you info helps build up a clearer picture.

Not my info. All this stuff has been posted and reposted before. But you are welcome.

 

[31550]

Maybe he was feeling a bit better by the time ambulance arrived. Checked him over. Reassured FF. (yes you do have a pulse) And ambulance left. Possible. Maybe FF or someone else panicked a bit? Do we know who called the ambulance. Sounds like all police had left at that time but is not clear. Could not have been much of an episode, again IMO.

If he had ended up in Emergency, there would have been travel time, wait to be assessed, and maybe at that time of night keep for a bit of observation. PC Hudson says Ambulance was called at 6:45. As you said she was not at the house and did not return until 9:00. My estimation, IMO, he would have not been back in the house until after midnight if he went somewhere. I guess he did not go any where that night by ambulance.

See my post above with Wendy's statement extract. All these questions were answered.

To clarify, the Command Post was the bottom of FGM driveway.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I can understand your anger and emotion about this, but IMO we can't let that prejudice our view of what may or may not have happened - we have to rely on the evidence.

The biggest problem I have right now is that there has not been a single acknowledgement of any responsibility or an "I'm sorry!" from the fosters. Sorry does not mean admission of liability, just an acknowledgement that YOU were responsible for keeping this child safe, and you failed in that duty. Fault or no fault, the fosters and FACS and the NSW Government have to own up that William disappeared on their watch. Just say sorry FFS. I can't get past this attitude and pretence that they are somehow victims in this.

I've been all over the case from top to bottom. I've taken an extremely objective non prejudiced view of what happened......until I conclusively determine in my mind what I know. I'm at that point.

More than anyone here I'm influenced by COG (consciousness of guilt) behaviours. They overwhelmingly incriminate the FM. The one stand out example is the first comment to AMS about WT hitting his head and not hearing..What an utter load of sh*te she would say that rather than focus on WHERE W was. My twin girls 5- 6 were missing for 20 minutes. I know what you think, feel, your response, the utter dread. The single focus is FINDING them. You simply don't think they hit their head can't hear you unless they actually HAVE hit their head. Zero doubt in my mind. Each can form their own views of course but I've formed mine.

In witness statement parlance this is what you call and 'embedded confession' where you intimate what actually happened and try to hide it in language camouflage. He hit his head.

Addendum: someone challenged my suggestion on this point saying the high balcony would create a concern. Yes it would. But a concern is something entirely different to an unfounded belief that he actually had hit his head and couldn't hear. You NEVER assume an unlikely misadventure happened as first thought BEFORE looking to find him.

A skilled witness statement analyst like Peter Hyatt would spend hours on a sentence like that. Even the fact it was and/or is incriminating


"Or he has been taken"

Not coincidentally it covers both him being found with head injury and pushes abduction hoax .....BEFORE looking for him!!!!!!! Think about it......

 

[gymjam]

Excellent deflection of the real issue! Who are you?

I don't understand your 'deflection' statement.

And who am I?

Well that question answer is full of complexities. A person that is a fully trained lateral thinker, highly observant, never give up attitude, has in-depth knowledge of investigative processes, when I make a personal decision to hone in on a case I will dig as deep as hell in a bid to uncover the truth, not afraid to keep asking questions until I know I have received the answers that assist me to formulate a clear unobstructed pathway to uncovering FACTS. Someone that will openly communicate directly with all levels of the legal fraternity and never ever afraid to seek assistance or advice - and I have never been denied - no large bills to pay either. I am also very resourceful and possess above average research skills. I never ignore that 'special feeling' I experience when I examine the body language of a person who thinks they are in mid-flight to deceive me!

How did I go? I have a question for you? Who are you to ask me who I am?

 

[maggiethecat]

Excellent deflection of the real issue! Who are you?

That’s also what I’m questioning.. seems extremely knowledgeable on the case but persistently asking questions of others , stirring up all kinds of scenarios and taking chats off course, constantly posting (I’m sick at home at the moment so I’m online more than usual but I do have to question why certain people post on theses kind of forums constantly) and yet has only been a member for a few weeks . I’m sorry not meaning to offend anyone but something seems a little off or it could be just me because I’m unwell at the moment?

 

[js47]

I don't understand your 'deflection' statement.

And who am I?

Well that question answer is full of complexities. A person that is a fully trained lateral thinker, highly observant, never give up attitude, has in-depth knowledge of investigative processes, when I make a personal decision to hone in on a case I will dig as deep as hell in a bid to uncover the truth, not afraid to keep asking questions until I know I have received the answers that assist me to formulate a clear unobstructed pathway to uncovering FACTS. Someone that will openly communicate directly with all levels of the legal fraternity and never ever afraid to seek assistance or advice - and I have never been denied - no large bills to pay either. I am also very resourceful and possess above average research skills. I never ignore that 'special feeling' I experience when I examine the body language of a person who thinks they are in mid-flight to deceive me!

How did I go? I have a question for you? Who are you to ask me who I am?

All of the above and more

 

[Wallace52]

Did William have an actual album of information for his future done by the FM or was it digital?
It would be very interesting to have a look at it.
A hard copy cannot be manipulated.

She gave the Coroner a hard copy.

 

[31550]

I've been all over the case from top to bottom. I've taken an extremely objective non prejudiced view of what happened......until I conclusively determine in my mind what I know. I'm at that point.

More than anyone here I'm influenced by COG (consciousness of guilt) behaviours. They overwhelmingly incriminate the FM. The one stand out example is the first comment to AMS about WT hitting his head and not hearing..What an utter load of sh*te she would say that rather than focus on WHERE W was. My twin girls 5- 6 were missing for 20 minutes. I know what you think, feel, your response, the utter dread. The single focus is FINDING them. You simply don't think they hit their head can't hear you unless they actually HAVE hit their head. Zero doubt in my mind. Each can form their own views of course but I've formed mine.

I know all that and agree with some of it. Courts don't work on 'vibes' except in The Castle. For people to be held accountable they have to be tried and convicted in court, beyond reasonable doubt. So we need facts and irrefutable evidence. All the other stuff might steer us in a certain direction but judges will ignore it and instruct juries to do so also. Subjectivity vs objectivity.

 

[gymjam]

All of the above and more

I’m not sure how this was recorded but hopefully as discreetly as possible.
Trying to get my head around why the truck driver was called to give evidence. We know he was in the area he’s said he saw three cars and a blonde lady.

IMO it was to hear his stated evidence publicly. Many times in cases there are rumours whizzing around a community ... in this case it first appeared that the truck driver Peter and the truck driver FM stated to Det Partridge that she had seen on her Batar Creek Rd drive were 2 separate truck drivers. But it could have been the 2 drivers were actually just one driver. The inquest appearance by Peter was important because it narrowed down specific times and places mentioned by Peter and FM and may now exclude parts of what were once considrted to be stated facts by FM. Important procedures and facts that the Coroner will will no doubt use as part of her reasons for findings.

I think the final tranche will be most interesting given the police applied to recall the FM to reappear before the inquest.

 

[gymjam]

All of the above and more

All of the above and more

But there is vacant air immediately above what you wrote in your reply. Gee not even the courtesy of explaining your reason for your question oh well ... another one bites the dust

 

[31550]

IMO it was to hear his stated evidence publicly. Many times in cases there are rumours whizzing around a community ... in this case it first appeared that the truck driver Peter and the truck driver FM stated to Det Partridge that she had seen on her Batar Creek Rd drive were 2 separate truck drivers. But it could have been the 2 drivers were actually just one driver. The inquest appearance by Peter was important because it narrowed down specific times and places mentioned by Peter and FM and may now exclude parts of what were once considrted to be stated facts by FM. Important procedures and facts that the Coroner will will no doubt use as part of her reasons for findings.

I think the final tranche will be most interesting given the police applied to recall the FM to reappear before the inquest.

Yes to getting evidence entered.
Either confirms or refutes other evidence.
Coroner is also to consider balance of probability, and Peter's evidence while it may not be definitive may sway that probability one way or another.

 

[31550]

She gave the Coroner a hard copy.

I presume she gave the Coroner an edited selection of photos, not necessarily every single photo ever taken while she had William.
So, this is hardly evidence of anything in particular.
I wonder if the scrapbook contained any iconic foster Mum and foster son "meet cute" or similar moments? Or was FM always behind the camera?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I know all that and agree with some of it. Courts don't work on 'vibes' except in The Castle. For people to be held accountable they have to be tried and convicted in court, beyond reasonable doubt. So we need facts and irrefutable evidence. All the other stuff might steer us in a certain direction but judges will ignore it and instruct juries to do so also. Subjectivity vs objectivity.

Chris Dawson was convicted exclusively on consciousness of guilt evidence. No body. No evidence. But the judge determined it was the only feasible conclusion..

I can see layer upon layer of these same behaviours being used against the FM. The only difference is LD was an adult and could leave herself. WT is an infant and must have left by car. Her mysterious car trip to a destination that the truckie' said he didn't see her. why travel 1.3klm anyway when he was gone 5 min? The alleged lies.

Yes I think there is enough for charging. How convincing they refute alternative hypotheses will be crucial in determining beyond reasonable doubt. The problem there is the deathbed confession of Ray Porter. Persuasive

And we don't have evidence they may have either

How are each of the POI excluded

 

[js47]

But there is vacant air immediately above what you wrote in your reply. Gee not even the courtesy of explaining your reason for your question oh well ... another one bites the dust

Your not going to post anymore?