D3 Division 3 2011

[The Chump]

Ron, a little harsh there but bordering on the truth. I can't see why any first 18 or 2nd 18 Assumption lads would want to play in Division 6 of the VAFA, most will go A or B without a doubt. I can't see this doing anything to stop the slide of the Two Blues.
As far as the announcement goes, perhaps some funding finally for the redevelopment of Elsternwick Park?

G'day Brian, maybe some of those players who play in the 01st or 2nd 18 at ACK have different reasons for playing football at certain clubs?

Other friends / family are playing there?
Work opportunity - via a clubs network?
Location of ground to new home in the city?
School support / encouragement to do so?

I agree that some will absolutely want to play the best standard they can in the ammos - that is understandable.

I also know that several will be enticed by the 'colourful opinions' of some A & B grade clubs about a 'division 6' club. I hear it all the time now we are in the lower grades, but that comes with the territory.

But, some will choose to play with a club - no matter the division - if it has a set of factors that are enticing for that individual.

Chump.

 

[Midas]

Ron, a little harsh there but bordering on the truth. I can't see why any first 18 or 2nd 18 Assumption lads would want to play in Division 6 of the VAFA, most will go A or B without a doubt. I can't see this doing anything to stop the slide of the Two Blues.
As far as the announcement goes, perhaps some funding finally for the redevelopment of Elsternwick Park?

Sorry, where did St Kevin's start in the VAFA? Oh that's right, Division 3 of 4, and were relegated in its first year. Interesting. 40 years between C & D until suddenly people decided to make an Old Boys side work.

Old Trinity started in E Grade and stayed there for 15 years, went up, came back down again until the mid-80's when again they made an Old Boys side work and have been in A & B since.

Xavs, Collegians, all of them started from humble beginnings, make no mistake about it.

At some stage however, some quality people, who want to see their school have a siginifcant presence in the VAFA, will make some sacrifices and decide, you know what, there is only one way for me to see my school colours in the higher grades of the VAFA, and that's by going down there and creating a culture of success.

Perhaps you are overlooking the fact that there are a group of over 140 Old Collegians still in playing age, with varied football histories, that want to see this work.

That there is significant organisation behind the scenes to make this work, both from a sponsorship and marketing perspective.

And the final thing you are underestimating is the selflessness of some of these players that have justifiable reasons to play elsewhere, at a higher level, or for siginificant coin, who in fact would simply like to see this venture be a success so the Football Nursery has a presence in the upper echelons of the VAFA.

Couple that with the existing football structure, and a powerful junior football club that is an untapped resource that will only benefit from a more competitive outfit on the park, and I would think the future looks particularly bright for this football club.

Only time will tell, granted, but with 15 ACK players already training and 6 committee members about to be appointed at next week's AGM, make no mistake about the fact that Prahran Assumption is serious about where it is headed.

 

[The Punter]

Well, it's all great news for the teams not associated with a school.

 

[TheWamba]

Interesting comments on teh Prahran Assumption alliance.

Having being intimately involved in the attempt Ivanhoe had to forge an alliance with the school (btw which was initiated by Assumption Old Boys), I believe that Ivanhoe, Assumption & the VAFA all contributed to it being unsuccessful.

1. Ivanhoe failed in that it did not adopt the Assumption jumper which would have been a strong identifier for people coming from teh school. This is Prahran's big advantage I believe. Also many people within the club were worried about our identity eventually being lost to Assumption.

My question to Prahran people is, Are you prepared to become the Assumption OCFC???

2. Assumption never really embraced the concept. We played practice matches against their first 18 etc.etc. but lists of players that we were to have access to were also given to clubs like St Kevins who were able to get in first so to speak.

In fairness to them, they had more to offer at that time.

3. The VAFA deserve a fair slap in this ordeal on their treatment of Brad Hall.

Brad Hall played with Melbourne 2's and then Vermont and came as a 24 year old to play with us.

Pending his long term playing future at the club, he believed a number of Assumption boys had committed to come down to Ivanhoe and play.

The first year he was a non-playing coach because the VAFA would not reinstate him because he played at Vermont and they rightly believed he was paid there. No players who had been paid elsewhere could be reinstated at that time.

The second year the VAFA brought in a rule that players 24 and under that had been paid in other leagues could be reinstated. During that year, Hally turned 25 and so they would not give him a permit. In that year, Hally lost enthusiasm and the players who had committed to him were lost. This nearly sent Ivanhoe under at the time.

That rule was subsequently challenged as ageist by someone at Mazenod I believe and so the rule became that anyone who had been paid could be reinstated as long as they weren't paid within the amateurs.

All of the above were significant contributors to the failure of the venture but had the amateurs not worked against it, it may have done better.

Having said that, I believe Prahran has a far better chance of making it work than us and I believe they will do a better job of it. They have embraced the jumper, the school seem behind it and the VAFA aren't working against it actively or passively.

My point to Prahran would be is that I don't believe both entities can exist side by side forever and which way will you go when push comes to shove?

Nonetheless I hope it succeeds for everyone's sake as you can't hope to succeed yourself by taking away from others.

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

Sorry, where did St Kevin's start in the VAFA? Oh that's right, Division 3 of 4, and were relegated in its first year. Interesting. 40 years between C & D until suddenly people decided to make an Old Boys side work.

Old Trinity started in E Grade and stayed there for 15 years, went up, came back down again until the mid-80's when again they made an Old Boys side work and have been in A & B since.

Xavs, Collegians, all of them started from humble beginnings, make no mistake about it.

At some stage however, some quality people, who want to see their school have a siginifcant presence in the VAFA, will make some sacrifices and decide, you know what, there is only one way for me to see my school colours in the higher grades of the VAFA, and that's by going down there and creating a culture of success.

Perhaps you are overlooking the fact that there are a group of over 140 Old Collegians still in playing age, with varied football histories, that want to see this work.

That there is significant organisation behind the scenes to make this work, both from a sponsorship and marketing perspective.

And the final thing you are underestimating is the selflessness of some of these players that have justifiable reasons to play elsewhere, at a higher level, or for siginificant coin, who in fact would simply like to see this venture be a success so the Football Nursery has a presence in the upper echelons of the VAFA.

Couple that with the existing football structure, and a powerful junior football club that is an untapped resource that will only benefit from a more competitive outfit on the park, and I would think the future looks particularly bright for this football club.

Only time will tell, granted, but with 15 ACK players already training and 6 committee members about to be appointed at next week's AGM, make no mistake about the fact that Prahran Assumption is serious about where it is headed.

Really? Have you asked all 140?

I repeat, all this rhetoric was trotted out by nobs a few years back(4 I think!) about St Pats and wonderful it will be and how it will help the club.

Refresh my memory of exactly how they have gone since the merger?
And they re in a grade two higher than Prahran!

Easier to attract them to D1 rather than D3!

So why will you guys be any different? Nobs had the full backing of the school but like you guys, it was a desperate grab for survival rather than facing the reality of your situation.

 

[Midas]

Really? Have you asked all 140?

I repeat, all this rhetoric was trotted out by nobs a few years back(4 I think!) about St Pats and wonderful it will be and how it will help the club.

Refresh my memory of exactly how they have gone since the merger?
And they re in a grade two higher than Prahran!

Easier to attract them to D1 rather than D3!

So why will you guys be any different? Nobs had the full backing of the school but like you guys, it was a desperate grab for survival rather than facing the reality of your situation.

It is all before us, not sure what you expect - for us to look pessimistically at the opportunity afforded these two organisations.

There are a bevy of reasons as to why this has legs, but I am not about to enter into them here again.

Suffice to say Prahran Assumption is very comfortable with where it is at, and extremely confident about 2011 and beyond.

Appreciate your interest though Ron, although a dose of positivity would not go astray.

However your analysis of weaknesses and threats is both enlightening and helpful, and I can assure you things that we had never thought of before entering into the arrangement.

Cheers

 

[Ron Jeremy 69]

I wonder if Midas is allergic to the word NOBS?

He seem to have ignored it every time I mention it.

Nobs were very positive about their St Pats affiliation-all the same rhetoric you have trotted out and....nothing has happened

 

[Twiggy Munsen]

I wonder if Midas is allergic to the word NOBS?

He seem to have ignored it every time I mention it.

Nobs were very positive about their St Pats affiliation-all the same rhetoric you have trotted out and....nothing has happened

The St bedes College - Mentone Amateurs worked pretty well!!!

 

[Rooster 24]

The St bedes College - Mentone Amateurs worked pretty well!!!

Mentone Amateurs (previously St Pats Mentone) actually merged with SESFL side Parkdale to from the Parkdale Vultures. The on going viability of that is still in question. Relegated last year and unable to field an U19 side. There has even been talk of that club moving across the SFL. St Bedes merged with ex SESFL/FDFL club Mentone. That has certainly been a success but is a totally different situation to the Prahran - Assumption model. Both clubs were based in Mentone and drew players largely from the same local area. Both clubs already had established juniors and seniors. In essence for St Bedes to flourish they needed a home base in their geographic heartland and Mentone oval was the best option. At the time they were playing on what could generously be described as a cow paddock out the back of Mordialloc. With the number of clubs in the area Mentone was on the brink and needed another partner to survive. From an outsider this seems to be very much a St Bedes dominated club but it has allowed Mentone to retain their history and keep a suburban link for the locals. The junior arm of the club is one of the strongest in the MSJFL.

 

[Fish 20]

From an outsider this seems to be very much a St Bedes dominated club but it has allowed Mentone to retain their history and keep a suburban link for the locals. The junior arm of the club is one of the strongest in the MSJFL.

Do you think that this might happen at Prahran with Assumption being the dominating party? Only time will tell I suppose. I wish the joint venture all the best of success

 

[Rooster 24]

Do you think that this might happen at Prahran with Assumption being the dominating party? Only time will tell I suppose. I wish the joint venture all the best of success

Would very much doubt it, as the circumstances are entirely different. St Bedes College is 500 metres from Brindisi Street oval. Most of their players live locally, went to the school or came from the junior club so the transition is logical. Assumption College is 100 + klm’s from Melbourne with students from all over Victoria and beyond. The new entity would have to rely on the schools leavers actually coming to Melbourne to work or study and then making the choice of playing at Prahran rather than an A or B club, Uni team, chase suburban $$ etc etc. They seem very buoyant about the chances of success so good luck to them. I wish them well but it is really nothing like the St Bedes/Mentone model.

 

[Fish 20]

Yes, they're certainly up against it. But kudos to Prahran for looking into the future and trying to save it

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Lots of good points here on both sides of the argument and we can only hope that the merge works, but my gut feel is that it wont last 3 years. Prahran would have been better getting into bed with schools like St Michaels or CBC, local kids that most probably will live in the area when they leave school.
Unfortunately under Matheson the club has spiralled deep into the second lowest grade in the VAFA, even after a one year reprieve when Peninsula was relegated for going outside of the rules. If they couldn't work hard enough to stay up this season then I fear that they will be in the lower grades for a very, very long time.

 

[Dee Three]

...BREAKING NEWS...

Another merger in Division 3.

Hawthorn Amateurs will this afternoon announce a merge with AFL Club Hawthorn.

This will give Alastair Clarkson the opportunity to blood his recently signed rookies at Rathmines Reserve and allow his older more experienced players more game time at Box Hill.

This is believed to be the real reason behind Hawthorn rejecting an AFL suggestion to re-locate to Tasmania.

Hawthorn President Jeff Kennett said "We have looked at Tasmania as an ongoing venture for our club, but the merger with Hawthorn Amateurs makes much more sense".

Hawthorn Amateurs President Ed Sill stated that "We based this merger on the Assumption College/Prahran merger and are convinced that following their lead, we can create a VAFA dynasty just like North Old Boys/St Pats have done in their past merger".

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Everybody involved at Prahran is responsible for the drop through the grades, not just the President. In the words of Digger, the club "had to take a good hard look at itself."

 

[Rooster1979]

Round 1 Selections

Kew vs West Brunswick
Monash vs Hawthorn
Mt. Lilydale vs Ivanhoe
Power House vs Albert Park
UHS-VU vs Elsternwick
Yarra Valley vs Prahran-Assumption

 

[Fruitloop]

Round 1 Selections

Kew vs West Brunswick
Monash vs Hawthorn
Mt. Lilydale vs Ivanhoe
Power House vs Albert Park
UHS-VU vs Elsternwick
Yarra Valley vs Prahran-Assumption

interesting that you think the 2 promoted teams will kick start the season on a winning note

 

[Rooster1979]

interesting that you think the 2 promoted teams will kick start the season on a winning note

La Trobe & Albert Park went alright this year.

I don't think there's a big difference between the top of D4 and middle of the road D3. If Monash and Mt. Lilydale improve a bit, both could push for the premiership. Remember both were 17-1 last year, clearly too good for the rest of D4

 

[My Name Is]

La Trobe & Albert Park went alright this year.

I don't think there's a big difference between the top of D4 and middle of the road D3. If Monash and Mt. Lilydale improve a bit, both could push for the premiership. Remember both were 17-1 last year, clearly too good for the rest of D4

Good call Rooster. Mt.Lilydale and my boys Monash lost to each other once during the season and met in the grand final which was decided by two goals in our favour. Mt.Lilydale seemed to be missing 3-4 of there top players for the big dance so as a few of us have said 'we may have been a little lucky'! If both sides can pick up 2-3 quality players we should be there abouts come finals. So in finishing - underestimate the D4 promotion teams and you may may be in D4 next season.

 

[members section]

Good call Rooster. Mt.Lilydale and my boys Monash lost to each other once during the season and met in the grand final which was decided by two goals in our favour. Mt.Lilydale seemed to be missing 3-4 of there top players for the big dance so as a few of us have said 'we may have been a little lucky'! If both sides can pick up 2-3 quality players we should be there abouts come finals. So in finishing - underestimate the D4 promotion teams and you may may be in D4 next season.

thats fair enough and there probably isnt much of a diff between the top d4 teams and middle d3 (eltham had no trouble making the double jump) but you have to remember 09 only 1 side got relegated and 3 sides promoted. so there was no effective 11(d3) v 3(d4) this yr in that grade. The Gryohons were competive in 09 and went back to play 4th and lower. They were always going to win the prem just by how far, and well done to mt lyl for getting as close as they did any other year it would have been a prem. While i think both these club will stay up i think it will be harder for them than in previous years.

 

[majicjman]

Dont under estimate Yarra Vally they are a good side and play their home ground well from memory the beat latrobe uni at home and ran st Johns very close at home as well they will be top 4
Power house top 2
uvhs-vu to be top 4
AlbertPart to be top 2
Prahran-Assumption to be in the finals as well
Elsternwick to there abouts for a finals berth

 

[Rooster1979]

On form lines, I see Prahran Assumption as the clear standout at this stage - Won 6 in Div2 and were unlucky to finish bottom. Kew are the clear straggler for mine, only winning 1 game last year against the relegated X-Men, they need to improve a lot to stay up. I've seen a few times teams relegated with one win from Div 3 then really struggle in Div 4 the following year...Richmond, Swinburne, Chadstone all still mid table at best in recent years.

Similar to 09 where Monash were the only team relegated in 10th with 6 wins, I think that this will be one of the most competitive season of Div 3 in the last 10 years. Any of the other 10 remaining teams you could mount a legitimate case that they will play finals. You may need to win 7 to assure yourself of survival again.

 

[justafan]

Everybody involved at Prahran is responsible for the drop through the grades, not just the President. In the words of Digger, the club "had to take a good hard look at itself."

Prahran/Assumption to play Hawthorn at Assumption College Kilmore in Round 4, I believe.
I also believe that this was heavily pushed by the VAFA.
If this is correct, good on both teams and the VAFA for the initiative.

 

[bromanbomber]

Prahran/Assumption to play Hawthorn at Assumption College Kilmore in Round 4, I believe.
I also believe that this was heavily pushed by the VAFA.
If this is correct, good on both teams and the VAFA for the initiative.

Its a small ground but playing surface is always top notch! If the wind comes through as its known to do, always tough to score at one end.

 

[Rooster1979]

Dimensions of this years grounds:


McAlistair Oval (West Brunswick) - 166m x 110m
Brens Oval (UHS-VU) 157m x 126m
Mt Lilydale Oval (Mt.L) 154m x 131m
Toorak Park (Prahran Assumption) - 153m x 123m (ACK Oval 155m x 137m)
Ross Gregory Oval (Power House) - 152m x 105m
Domeney Reserve (Yarra Valley) - 146m x 115m
Victoria Park (Kew) - 145m x 123m
Ivanhoe Park (Ivanhoe) - 145m x 122m
East Caulfield Reserve (Monash) - 144m x 104m
Oval 20 (Albert Park) - 141m x 117m
Elsternwick Oval 2 (Elsternwick) - 140m x 107m
Rathmines Road Reserve (Hawthorn) - 135m x 101m

See the map here: http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?i...0336,144.94378&spn=0.001901,0.004123&t=h&z=19

Who has the biggest home ground advantage?