Politics Does Australia need a new progressive political party?

[evolved2]

A strong progressive opposition is in the best interests of Australia, and we have none. The Greens struggle for any media relevance unless they're proposing unpopular identity politics and victimhood. I see them as the other side of the coin to One Nation.

A political party that promotes secularism, multiculturalism, freedom of speech, employee rights, wage growth, and doesn't exert a lot of energy engaging in unpopular cultural wars (as both extremities tend to) would probably rake in a lot of votes.

Any thoughts?

 

[CM86]

I think that would be great.

But what are some positions that a Progressive Party could have, that aren't represented by any of the existing parties?

And as culture war issues are some of the most impactful ways to drive votes and engagement, how would they get a foothold in Australian politics?


What are some populist issues that you would like to see from this party, that can't be represented as a 'culture war issue'?


What are your thoughts on a Centrist party?

 

[evolved2]

I think that would be great.

Likewise.

But what are some positions that a Progressive Party could have, that aren't represented by any of the existing parties?

Valuing the environment, healthcare, and employee rights would be great. The ALP have lost their way in that respect.

And as culture war issues are some of the most impactful ways to drive votes and engagement, how would they get a foothold in Australian politics?

I disagree. The majority of voters want our politicians to focus on core issues like affordability, workers rights, childcare, etc.

Minor parties like the Greens and One Nation focus on culture wars that aren't a big priority to voters.

We need an alternative to the Greens imho. In good conscience, I couldn't vote for them even though they have some good policy.

What are some populist issues that you would like to see from this party, that can't be represented as a 'culture war issue'?

Wage growth
Employee rights
Affordable living
Policies that encourage citizens to breed

What are your thoughts on a Centrist party?

How will they get media attention?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The Greens struggle for any media relevance unless they're proposing unpopular identity politics and victimhood.

This is exactly why we won't get another prominent progressive party.The media are almost entirely owned by rich people who will not benefit from progressive economic policies. So they have instructed their journalists to ignore anything the Greens propose that might be popular and only focus on the stuff that can be used to scare people away from the Greens.

This has infected the ABC too to a lesser extent, because journalists are influenced by other journalists. And the ABC is now run by the former heads of News Limited and 9 Fairfax, so I doubt anything improves there.

The media will treat any new progressive party similarly to the Greens: if they can't scare people away from them, they will ignore them.

A political party that promotes secularism, multiculturalism, freedom of speech, employee rights, wage growth, and doesn't exert a lot of energy engaging in unpopular cultural wars (as both extremities tend to) would probably rake in a lot of votes.

Is there a single major party anywhere in the English-speaking world that hasn't engaged in culture wars? There's a reason they do: it makes voters pay attention. As much as political analysts say "it's the economy, stupid", campaigning on economic policy does not make voters pay attention, because most voters do not get excited or emotional about economics (unless things are dire and the opposition campaigns on how terrible everything is, but even that's usually low on facts).

 

[CM86]

Valuing the environment, healthcare, and employee rights would be great. The ALP have lost their way in that respect.

And they've toned it down, because they keep losing elections.

They will lose to the party that opposes valuing those things.

So is it because the majority of Australian's don't value those things?
Or is it something else?

 

[evolved2]

This is exactly why we won't get another prominent progressive party.The media are almost entirely owned by rich people who will not benefit from progressive economic policies. So they have instructed their journalists to ignore anything the Greens propose that might be popular and only focus on the stuff that can be used to scare people away from the Greens.

This has infected the ABC too to a lesser extent, because journalists are influenced by other journalists. And the ABC is now run by the former heads of News Limited and 9 Fairfax, so I doubt anything improves there.

The media will treat any new progressive party similarly to the Greens: if they can't scare people away from them, they will ignore them.

Paid media lacks the same level of relevance it had in the past.

The Greens have some fantastic policy mixed with some horrible people and policies. I believe the electorate wants a party that values the environment and human rights - and the Greens aren't that imho.

Is there a single major party anywhere in the English-speaking world that hasn't engaged in culture wars? There's a reason they do: it makes voters pay attention. As much as political analysts say "it's the economy, stupid", campaigning on economic policy does not make voters pay attention, because most voters do not get excited or emotional about economics (unless things are dire and the opposition campaigns on how terrible everything is, but even that's usually low on facts).

It's not a winning strategy - look at the Vic LNP and their time in the abyss. One Nation and the Greens are much the same afaic.

Then we're left with the same dross - ALP and LNP.

I'm struggling to believe this is the best we have to offer!

 

[evolved2]

And they've toned it down, because they keep losing elections.

They will lose to the party that opposes valuing those things.

So is it because the majority of Australian's don't value those things?
Or is it something else?

Disagree. Polls show valuing the environment is popular, workers rights are popular, and I'm sure a well run campaign on medicare would be popular too.

Do you remember WorkChoices?

It was silly of the ALP to target investors under Shorten - I voted against him because of that.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So is it because the majority of Australian's don't value those things?
Or is it something else?

Bit of both, but I'd say that most Australians have been lied to repeatedly that these things will either make them poorer or the people pushing for them are all evil.

The mining and gas industries have fought any attempt to benefit the environment at their expense through media campaigns and advertising (and before someone brings up the push into renewables in Australia, the mining and gas industries don't make the big bucks by selling to Australians).

This went into overdrive around the time of Rudd and Gillard, and it manifested in not only media campaigns against the mining tax and carbon price, but also included the demonisation of unions, which have historically been a big force for ensuring wage growth and employee rights.

And then there's the lie the media have propagated for decades that the Coalition are good economic managers...

 

[CM86]

Disagree. Polls show valuing the environment is popular, workers rights are popular, and I'm sure a well run campaign on medicare would be popular too.

Do you remember WorkChoices?

It was silly of the ALP to target investors under Shorten - I voted against him because of that.

So why will the Coalition win the next Federal election?

If Australians don't care about culture wars, and they want to be represented by the party more likely to value the environment, workers rights, healthcare etc.
Why will the Coalition win?


Why did the negative gearing reform mean so much more to you, that you voted against valuing the environment, workers rights and healthcare?

 

[CM86]

Bit of both, but I'd say that most Australians have been lied to repeatedly that these things will either make them poorer or the people pushing for them are all evil.

The mining and gas industries have fought any attempt to benefit the environment at their expense through media campaigns and advertising (and before someone brings up the push into renewables in Australia, the mining and gas industry don't make the big bucks by selling to Australians).

This went into overdrive around the time of Rudd and Gillard, and it manifested in not only media campaigns against the mining tax and carbon price, but also included the demonisation of unions, which have historically been a big force for ensuring wage growth and employee rights.

And then there's the lie the media have propagated for decades that the Coalition are good economic managers...

People will state that they support workers rights, while also stating that they hate unions, because of how corrupt they are.

They hate on healthcare workers or educators for ever going on strike to improve funding and conditions for healthcare and education.


But they will turn around and say they oppose the ALP and Greens for not doing enough for healthcare and education.

And no one has ever been able to explain how these positions are logical, or in a way I can understand.

 

[evolved2]

So why will the Coalition win the next Federal election?

I'll more than likely vote ALP ahead of them, so don't blame me.

If Australians don't care about culture wars, and they want to be represented by the party more likely to value the environment, workers rights, healthcare etc.
Why will the Coalition win?

Albo dropped the ball during a period of high inflation. He misread the room and allowed people from your side of politics to control the discussion in the lead-up to the voice vote. I voted yes and was disgusted by many vocal yes voters.

I don't know that he will lose the next election. Do you?

Why did the negative gearing reform mean so much more to you, that you voted against valuing the environment, workers rights and healthcare?

Same reason anyone votes - it was in my best interest.

Preaching will get you nowhere, Reverend CM.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

The Greens are the progressive party , no need to start another.

 

[evolved2]

People will state that they support workers rights, while also stating that they hate unions, because of how corrupt they are.

They hate on healthcare workers or educators for ever going on strike to improve funding and conditions for healthcare and education.


But they will turn around and say they oppose the ALP and Greens for not doing enough for healthcare and education.

And no one has ever been able to explain how these positions are logical, or in a way I can understand.

I see the Greens as a pro-Islam, victimhood, racist, and misogynistic party.

They have good health policy I would vote for otherwise.

That's the entire reason for the thread - give me a progressive party that doesn't support religion, racism, victimhood and misogyny. Easy votes from people like me.

 

[evolved2]

The Greens are the progressive party , no need to start another.

Sounds more like a cult than a political party. How will you win centrists over?

 

[CM86]

I'll more than likely vote ALP ahead of them, so don't blame me.

I'm not.

I'm literally trying to engage with you in the thread you made.
I'm not demanding answers, I'm trying to engage you in a discussion.

I'm actually trying to help your thread grow. (Not saying it needs help, this isn't an attack). Have to caveat everything these days.

Preaching will get you nowhere, Reverend CM.

Yeah, you got me!

I've been so offensive towards you in this thread, right? It's only fair you play the man.

 

[evolved2]

I'm not.

I'm literally trying to engage with you in the thread you made.
I'm not demanding answers, I'm trying to engage you in a discussion.

I'm actually trying to help your thread grow. (Not saying it needs help, this isn't an attack). Have to caveat everything these days.



Yeah, you got me!

I've been so offensive towards you in this thread, right? It's only fair you play the man.

Apologies mate, I'm actually feeling sick from the sight of green candles. I'm out for the night.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Paid media lacks the same level of relevance it had in the past.

I wouldn't be writing off paid media yet. They still have more resources than any Australian political social media influencer, and a wider reach through people 40 and older. They create the media environment that these influencers are trying to build a base in, and that will have an effect.

The Greens have some fantastic policy mixed with some horrible people and policies.

These things won't be avoided in any political party. Politics attracts arseholes and few will agree with every part of a wide-ranging political agenda.

I believe the electorate wants a party that values the environment and human rights - and the Greens aren't that imho.

I'd say they have extensive policies on protecting both the environment and human rights. You may not agree with them and that's okay, but it doesn't mean the Greens don't value those things in their way. There are issues I have with the Greens, but their stances on the environment and human rights are not among them.

It's not a winning strategy - look at the Vic LNP and their time in the abyss.

There are many reasons for that. The Victorian LNP were bad in their last term in government, they have little credibility on providing public services and infrastructure, Matthew Guy was a terrible leader, and yes, they picked the wrong culture wars to fight.

There are several counter-examples where culture wars have worked, most notably Howard demonising asylum seekers, and Abbott pulling a similar trick a decade later.

Culture wars generally don't work well at state level, and crime works better as a scare campaign in Queensland than Victoria, partly because there's more of it per capita, and perhaps partly because there are more Indigenous people in Queensland. My theory for the reason Australia has long had a culture with so many rules, and celebrates beer drinking yet punishes its public consumption, is because of the colonial-era perception of Indigenous people as being unruly and in need of harsh laws and punishment to correct their behaviour. And I don't think that attitude has gone away, it's just less openly expressed. But I could be wrong.

One Nation and the Greens are much the same afaic.

I disagree, but I know I'm not going to change your mind. You mentioned having both low on your ballot at the last election, and you plan to do that again this time too. It's irrelevant anyway unless you live in an electorate where one of those parties makes the 2CP.

Then we're left with the same dross - ALP and LNP.

I'm struggling to believe this is the best we have to offer!

There are other parties available if you really want. There's even one called the Australian Progressives. But they won't go anywhere.

Most people aren't terribly interested in politics and will only hear about politicians that regularly make the news or can pay for lots of ads. That's why almost all third parties/movements that have made a serious impact in the last 25 years are either those who can generate headlines through courting controversy (One Nation), those who are backed by a billionaire (Teals, UAP) or those who are treated well by the media for some unclear reason (Lambie, though she needed a billionaire to get into parliament to begin with).

The Greens have been trying something different – bypass the traditional media and go directly to the voters. When a threat to the established order like that emerges, the establishment try to squash it. The media and both major parties have been pushing a message for a long time that the Greens are all dangerous lunatics. I agree that the Greens haven't helped their cause with some of the Senators they've elected, but it doesn't change that they've had a lot of muck raked against them.

It was silly of the ALP to target investors under Shorten - I voted against him because of that.

Property investors are a huge reason for the current extortionate house prices. Getting rid of negative gearing was a great idea.

Franking credit refunds were being gamed by people close to retirement to fatten their retirement funds at the taxpayers expense. Personally I'd have just raised corporate tax or closed the loophole instead of trying to eliminate the refunds though.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

People will state that they support workers rights, while also stating that they hate unions, because of how corrupt they are.

They hate on healthcare workers or educators for ever going on strike to improve funding and conditions for healthcare and education.

But they will turn around and say they oppose the ALP and Greens for not doing enough for healthcare and education.

And no one has ever been able to explain how these positions are logical, or in a way I can understand.

It's all perfectly logical, if you work from the premise that most voters are self-centred and easily influenced by media propaganda. They want all the benefits of healthcare, education and workers' rights, without the discomfort of having to experience the negative effects of workers striking, let alone participating in a strike themselves. A steady diet of negative media stories against unions for the past 30 years has thoroughly poisoned them against joining one. I swear some of them think wage growth just falls into their laps rather than being the outcome of protracted negotiations and bargaining.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Sounds more like a cult than a political party. How will you win centrists over?

With good policy which the Greens have as you know.

 

[Deliverance]

Disagree. Polls show valuing the environment is popular, workers rights are popular, and I'm sure a well run campaign on medicare would be popular too.

Do you remember WorkChoices?

It was silly of the ALP to target investors under Shorten - I voted against him because of that.

Sounds more like we just need to remove the LNP. They've been attacking those things for years.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Always have ranked the Greens.
They just need a financial policy and a leader that attacks .
Also need to contest every seat with more gusto

 

[offtherails9]

Think the poster who said a centrist party is probably more on the money for what Australia needs.

I think similarly to the US, the common left these days has drifted further and further to the 'far left' that the election was more people voting closer for something for central in the end than the ridiculousness that has become the left.

AND Australia has become pretty bloody bad in that regard too, you look online and there are a lot of unhappy people about what the country has now become. Don't get me wrong I think there are definitely people in this unhappy area who go too far, and who are racist or sexist for example but I think the common person has just become pretty confused on different things like their hope for the future, why they are constantly looked down upon for being a white male, not being treated on merit because of DEI, or why a basic lifestyle has become so hard to maintain.

You look around at our political parties and what represents that? You have the coalition who have decided to pretty much mirror labor in most ways on issues which will win them the election but ultimately leave people unhappy, the Greens who are just ridiculous in every way, and then One Nation who maybe do have valid points regarding things like immigration, but ultimately attract a lot of racist people.

What hope does anyone really have?

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Think the poster who said a centrist party is probably more on the money for what Australia needs.

I think similarly to the US, the common left these days has drifted further and further to the 'far left' that the election was more people voting closer for something for central in the end than the ridiculousness that has become the left.

AND Australia has become pretty bloody bad in that regard too, you look online and there are a lot of unhappy people about what the country has now become. Don't get me wrong I think there are definitely people in this unhappy area who go too far, and who are racist or sexist for example but I think the common person has just become pretty confused on different things like their hope for the future, why they are constantly looked down upon for being a white male, not being treated on merit because of DEI, or why a basic lifestyle has become so hard to maintain.

You look around at our political parties and what represents that? You have the coalition who have decided to pretty much mirror labor in most ways on issues which will win them the election but ultimately leave people unhappy, the Greens who are just ridiculous in every way, and then One Nation who maybe do have valid points regarding things like immigration, but ultimately attract a lot of racist people.

What hope does anyone really have?

The US has no political left and there barely is any in Australia either now. Your internet algorithm has cooked you, dude.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The Greens favour increasing the minimum wage, strengthening unions, increasing medicare funding to incude dental, reducing monopolies.

The fact you only think of culture wars only show you're too hooked in to Murdoch world or you're not paying attention.

 

[CM86]

One Nation who maybe do have valid points regarding things like immigration, but ultimately attract a lot of racist people.

Does the people a party attract delegitimise the party, or the policies etc?

Having said that, if One Nation was a racist party, with racist policies. If it represented the majority of Australians, does their racism matter in a democracy?


In my opinion, the reason One Nation attracts 'racists', is because they do actually pursue 'racist' policy. They are also incredibly reliant on 'culture war' issues.
So are they voted for, for their 'racist' policy? Or are they voted for, for their angle on culture war issues?



For example. They would be considered a party heavily in support of 'white men'. And in action of reducing the 'harm' and 'attacks' on 'white men'.
But is that a culture war issue, or is it a 'real' issue?

I think broadly the categorising of something as a 'culture war' issue, is subjective. And it mostly depends on if the person values the issue or not.