Dustin Martins first 34 matches

[telsor]

Mostly because he's played at half-forward as much as midfield this year.

Not saying that's a bad thing at all and his impact's been huge - but he's way, way, way down the lists for clearances & so on because he's lined up forward or wing more than midfield.

I'd have Cotchin in the top dozen midfielders, easy. He'd be either in, or just missing, the AA squad; but I don't think I could justify picking Martin either forward or mid.

Martin (and Cotchin) rests at Full Forward actually ( a modern HFF doesn't 'rest' much after all )...Often just standing in the square, and his time is probably ~75% onball, 25% forward (a rough guesstimate based on my observations).

As for where he kicks his goals from, he's a LONG kick, and 3 of his 5 against Bribane were from around the 50 (one from the center square) and he was clearly playing as a mid. The other 2 were inside 50, and while I can't say what position he was supposed to be playing, other midfielders were also involved in them, so it's fair to assume that if he'd been playing mid, he'd have been there anyway.

I don't follow all teams closely enough to judge if either player is worthy of AA selection this year, indeed, because it's political, I doub they'd both make it (There is no way a mid ranked Richmond wouldn't get 3 players in, and with Jack a near certainty, they won't make it). I am however confident that they'll both be there, more often than not, for the rest of their careers.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I think Ron plucked some names from a hat

Obviously those listed aren't the top dozen for average disposals. Data was deliberately restricted to the big-name mids. Posting the complete dataset would no doubt lead to responses such as

Look! Martin's only marginally behind Spiro Kourkoumelis at the same stage! Gun!

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Bull. Ron is one of the better ones on BF when it comes to stats. If you want to make that accusation i suggest you put your money where your mouth is and prove him wrong.

The data was massaged, as Ron himself admits.

Obviously those listed aren't the top dozen for average disposals. Data was deliberately restricted to the big-name mids.

I know well Ron is a gun poster and has an amazing amount of stats at his fingertips. I'm not sure why he chose to limit his selection to players that Martin was ahead of, apart from the fact you get a lot of touches in your first 30 games doesn't mean you're a certainty to be a great.

Just as the fact that you don't get that many will stop you from being a great, as many players have also proven.

Thread itself is pretty meaningless, but it's a fun diversion from life.

 

[Slattery_20]

Wrong. Dont forget Martin is not only ranked 3rd for inside 50s, he is also ranked 4th for rebound 50s. He spends the majority of his time in the Middle/back half pushing forward when he either has a rest or we need goals.

to you and telsor - arguing over not very much, though - point being he is playing less as inside mid and more on a wing/flanks compared to last year, agree???

 

[telsor]

to you and telsor - arguing over not very much, though - point being he is playing less as inside mid and more on a wing/flanks compared to last year, agree???

Disagree, although it may be a matter of definition.

He has done less 'pure' inside work, but he's hardly outside either, at least, not to the degree a winger/flanker would be expected to be.

His role is probably more as the link between those 2...I think the 'ideal' is that Cotchin/Foley get the ball, quick/short (2-5m) handball to Martin (still in traffic, but not quite as thick) who spots up and delivers to a player in space. (Simply, his ability to find a target and deliver under pressure is considered more useful than his ability to get the ball).

Of course a clearance is never quite that static and clear, so often Martin is the one who gets the first touch, and it might be Cotchin who clears (etc).

If you're going to split players strictly between inside and outside, he's clearly inside, but if you're open to a bit of gray in that defintion, he's not as inside as last year.

 

[deledio7]

I'm guessing you're considering Jobe an outside midfielder then?

Before his hammy, yes. I had him as Brownlow favourite. Since then, no. But I love the guy and his fitness will soon allow him to dominate again.

Mostly because he's played at half-forward as much as midfield this year.

Not saying that's a bad thing at all and his impact's been huge - but he's way, way, way down the lists for clearances & so on because he's lined up forward or wing more than midfield.

I'd have Cotchin in the top dozen midfielders, easy. He'd be either in, or just missing, the AA squad; but I don't think I could justify picking Martin either forward or mid.

You're wrong actually. He has played midfield, not wing and half forward. He has rested forward at times but has kicked most his goals from the midfield, usually stoppages in the forward line. He was dominant in clearances last year but is playing an outside role this year with Trent fit and firing. I think only one of Martin or Cotchin could be in the AA side but I could definitely justify having Martin on the forward flank, he has kicked 22 goals.

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

I'm just grateful he's ours, don't care how he compares to anyone else

 

[4#Didak#4]

Martin, Fyfe & Judd were OK I guess but I think Adrian McAdam is the better pick. After 34 games for North including a couple of finals he had a lazy 89 goals. The fact he only played another 2 games is completely irrelevant at this stage.

 

[Rioli magic]

Pfft. Brent Renouf had a premiership after 8 games.

 

[calyam]

Martin, Fyfe & Judd were OK I guess but I think Adrian McAdam is the better pick. After 34 games for North including a couple of finals he had a lazy 89 goals. The fact he only played another 2 games is completely irrelevant at this stage.

Allen Jakovich kicked 150 goals in his first 34 games. If he keeps improving he'll be a star

But seriously Martin is great but there's been plenty of players who have been as good or better at the same age / or with the same amount of experience. I mean Ben Hart and Gavin Wanganeen were dual AA's by the around the same age (Wanganeen also had a Brownlow).

Selwood was amazing in his second year polling 19 Brownlow votes in a truly dominant team. How many second year players have been in the top 3 of a team that good? Martin is not even clearly better than Fyfe at this point so its silly to say that he's having the greater first 34 games in the past 30 years.

 

[Tulip]

hahaha stop lying to yourself mate

Christ, you're so far up your own black and yellow arse that I wouldn't be surprised if you're actually poking through your other end

 

[4#Didak#4]

Allen Jakovich kicked 150 goals in his first 34 games. If he keeps improving he'll be a star

But seriously Martin is great but there's been plenty of players who have been as good or better at the same age / or with the same amount of experience. I mean Ben Hart and Gavin Wanganeen were dual AA's by the around the same age (Wanganeen also had a Brownlow).

Selwood was amazing in his second year polling 19 Brownlow votes in a truly dominant team. How many second year players have been in the top 3 of a team that good? Martin is not even clearly better than Fyfe at this point so its silly to say that he's having the greater first 34 games in the past 30 years.

So he did. You win . Adrian has him covered for the best first 6 games though 38goals v Jakos 24.

The point is your first 34 games do not mean you will be a great player or classed as a great player. Are we going to ask next week after Dustin kicks 5 goals & gets another 25 touches whether he is now the best player after 35 games - is it at all relevant and how the hell are you supposed to judge it anyway. (PS Selwood had 35 touches in his 35th game so that may just put him in front )

 

[wce4premiership]

This thread is completely useless and shithouse. I will however say that Martin is a better footballer than fyfe atm but it could change.

 

[Choota]

Maybe you should list the dozen mids..

Pendlebury, Thomas, selwood, Kelly, Mitchell, Priddis, Judd, Murphy, Boyd, Watson, wells, ablett would be ahead of cotchin. O keefe Mundy, fyfe and swallow arguable too. Probably a few others ahead of Martin.

Take your blinkers off. Both great young players, I'd trade anyone on our list bar buddy for Martin. But neither cotchin or Martin deserve AA at this point. If they did get it ahead of a less exciting but more experienced and consistent player like Priddis Mitchell or Boyd, it would be a joke.

 

[MightyTiger]

Pendlebury, Thomas, selwood, Kelly, Mitchell, Priddis, Judd, Murphy, Boyd, Watson, wells, ablett would be ahead of cotchin. O keefe Mundy, fyfe and swallow arguable too. Probably a few others ahead of Martin.

Take your blinkers off. Both great young players, I'd trade anyone on our list bar buddy for Martin. But neither cotchin or Martin deserve AA at this point. If they did get it ahead of a less exciting but more experienced and consistent player like Priddis Mitchell or Boyd, it would be a joke.

So how many other 20 year olds are there teams #1 Midfielder copping the #1 Tag yet still has as good a numbers as he does for a Midfielder?

His year to date has been nothing short of outstanding, and he would definitely be in contention for an AA nomination at the end of the year if his form continues.

 

[Tulip]

Ok then so we're being selective when we're talking about stats. Ok my turn, by your theory jordan gysberts is a gun because he had 30 odd touches and about 8 tackles against geelong at skilled stadium last year.

Odd use of the example. Played under 15 games and has 2 rising star nominations. Not sure why classing him as a gun is ridiculous

So how many other 20 year olds are there teams #1 Midfielder copping the #1 Tag yet still has as good a numbers as he does for a Midfielder?

His year to date has been nothing short of outstanding, and he would definitely be in contention for an AA nomination at the end of the year if his form continues.

Never fails to amaze me how Martin, Cotch and Foley ALL 'cop the number one tag'

 

[Harvey_35]

Lots of hype in the media lately, but arguably justified.

I'd probably trade Kosi, Gram, Dawson and Ray for him.

 

[Tulip]

Lots of hype in the media lately, but arguably justified.

I'd probably trade Kosi, Gram, Dawson and Ray for him.

Yes, but what would they get in return?

 

[Bazzar]

Odd use of the example. Played under 15 games and has 2 rising star nominations. Not sure why classing him as a gun is ridiculous

Big deal. Duncan Kellaway also had 2 nominations and was a very, very good footballer but never elite. Gyosperts is good, but will never be elite.

 

[Harvey_35]

Yes, but what would they get in return?

haha you've pretty much called what I was half trying to conceal.

I guess the point that I was making is without giving up too much (if anything) that I'd trade half the team to get him.

 

[Carnage]

Don't argue

 

[Tulip]

Big deal. Duncan Kellaway also had 2 nominations and was a very, very good footballer but never elite. Gyosperts is good, but will never be elite.

And strong use of the foreshadow.

How on earth can you tell whether or not he'll be an elite extractor of the ball, I'd think he's looking good>bad considering his first 15 games.

 

[MightyTiger]

Odd use of the example. Played under 15 games and has 2 rising star nominations. Not sure why classing him as a gun is ridiculous


Never fails to amaze me how Martin, Cotch and Foley ALL 'cop the number one tag'

Foley hasn't been tagged all year, and the only time I can remember Martin being tagged was against Fremantle and he got a bit of a lesson that day.

 

[Tulip]

Foley hasn't been tagged all year, and the only time I can remember Martin being tagged was against Fremantle and he got a bit of a lesson that day.

Fair enough: I agree, Cotchin is tagged and rightfully so. He's a star

Many of your comrades would have us as a wider community believe otherwise

 

[telsor]

Foley hasn't been tagged all year, and the only time I can remember Martin being tagged was against Fremantle and he got a bit of a lesson that day.

So did Freo. Cotchin ran wild.