Traded Dylan Shiel [traded with future 2nd to Essendon for #9 and future 1st round pick]

[SterlingArcher]

FFS ... can we stop with the crap idea that Shiel was negotiating for GWS and what picks they would get for him.

Yep. Why would Shiel choose the club that he knows is going to be weakened the most (i.e. give up the highest price) and prop up his old club? What, he's going to forgo all the other reasons players choose clubs so a club he'll never play for again gets some good picks??

Really in an ideal world for Shiel he'd be going to a club that gives up **** all for him and he'd join 2x first rounders at Essendon...that's obviously not going to happen but clearly that would be ideal.

GWS will look after GWS, Shiel will look after Shiel (and his new club once he gets there).

 

[SterlingArcher]

Disposal Efficiency is a horrible metric for kicking ability. I don't see how a bloke who's omw od the best at hitting up forwards to kick goals can be considered largely innefectual.

The coaches also disagree with you as Shiel is the most tagged player at GWS over the last 2 seasons. Why would the coaches tag a bloke who is innefectual?

High disposal efficiency is a horrible metric for judging good kicks because an efficient kick is a reasonably loose definition - you can bomb it all day to a contest and be 'efficient'. A low efficiency doesn't lie. So he has 4/10 kicks that don't go "more than 40 metres to a 50/50 contest or better for the team or a kick of less than 40 metres that results in the intended target retaining possession", while 6 are either retaining possession or a random long bomb to a contest...I can tell you now not all 6 are lace out to a forward. At best 3 are going to be.

He may well be the easiest tagged? Whitfield gets tagged by Hewett, Kelly and Coniglio have both been tagged at times. To say "the coaches" disagree is clearly disingenuous, some coaches agree, some coaches don't think Shiel is all that dangerous.

I imagine it'll be clear when Essendon start using Shiel as a way to get Merrett clear to deliver the ball.

 

[SterlingArcher]

It's not that I don't rate Shiel. He's a jet who will finish with another couple of AA's to his name I suspect.

But boy does his kicking get exaggerated because of its style. Looks good, lacks consistency.

 

[Scotland]

59% kicking efficiency, drops to 51% in finals, very high clanger:kick ratio.

I've watched Chris Judd post-groin issues for years (i.e. his Carlton time) - I see the exact similarities in Shiel. Bursts a pack, hits a target lace out 1 or 2 times a game, everyone boners up over how good his kicking is, but by and large it's ineffective.

Barely 6 out of 10 kicks counted as effective for Shiel and that is with what is considered a reasonably loose definition for 'effective'.

Stats back up the eyes.

That kind of sounds like Dangerfield - who is one of the top couple of players in the comp.

 

[Keystone agony]

Considerong Shiels game if his kicking is at 60% efficiency i reckon its pretty good.

Much harder to hit a target running at high level speeds that he does when kicking than being a quarter back midfielder like Sam Mitchell

Theres a reason defenders have such high DE and it slowly reduces as you move to wards goal square position.

Also Shiels has been heavily tagged in his career. No doubt harding to hit a target with someone constantly pressuring your disposal.

Theres a reason not many inside midfielders who kick the footy more than handball as pure inside midfielders that dont avg over 70% DE for the past 2 years

I still fail to see any strong evdidence that he isnt a good user via stats.

For comparable players that play similar roles in the midfield/teams id have Jaegar Omeara, Joel Selwood, Dangerfield, Shuey, Zorko

 

[Ambrosia]

some coaches don't think Shiel is all that dangerous.

Where have coaches said that? You do realise not being tagged doesnt mean the opposition think he isn't dangerous.

Overall I agree that Shiel isn't the best user of the ball I just think your language is wrong. How can a bloke who has shown the capacity to break games open with a few disposals be largely innefectual?

 

[Bojangles17]

If treloar was 2x r1 so is Shiel , cough up and pay a fair price

 

[Keystone agony]

You dont tag someone week in week out if their not dangerous. I must admit i was very surprised he was tagged heavier than Josh Kelly this year.

Clangers:Kick Ratio (Career stats)

(Shiel) 2.9:12 = 24.16%
(Omeara) 3.2:11.4 = 28.07%
(J.Selwood) 2.9:12.6 = 23.01%
(Dangerfield) 3.2: 12.3 = 26.01%
(Zorko) 3.2:12.7 = 25.2%
(Shuey) 2.9:12.5 = 23.2%

Shiel sits very fine amongst this midfield group and actually in the top echelon. Zorko played forward a bit more than the rest due to early in his career so bit hsrsh on him.

Most of these guys have been heavily tagged and considered dangerous players who dont drift back and get a lot of cheap easy disposals.

 

[Bombfire]

It's not that I don't rate Shiel. He's a jet who will finish with another couple of AA's to his name I suspect.

But boy does his kicking get exaggerated because of its style. Looks good, lacks consistency.

Don't worry too much about the jet- if Dylan takes a while to get consistent, Big Joe and Raz will help him out by capitalizing on all those repeat entries.

 

[Don Won]

If treloar was 2x r1 so is Shiel , cough up and pay a fair price

Fair call.
But like Treloar we need to get something like pick 28 (and three years of his life) back.

 

[Bombfire]

If treloar was 2x r1 so is Shiel , cough up and pay a fair price

Sorry, what did you cough up for Lynch again?

 

[Bombermania]

You dont tag someone week in week out if their not dangerous. I must admit i was very surprised he was tagged heavier than Josh Kelly this year.

Clangers:Kick Ratio (Career stats)

(Shiel) 2.9:12 = 24.16%
(Omeara) 3.2:11.4 = 28.07%
(J.Selwood) 2.9:12.6 = 23.01%
(Dangerfield) 3.2: 12.3 = 26.01%
(Zorko) 3.2:12.7 = 25.2%
(Shuey) 2.9:12.5 = 23.2%

Shiel sits very fine amongst this midfield group and actually in the top echelon. Zorko played forward a bit more than the rest due to early in his career so bit hsrsh on him.

Most of these guys have been heavily tagged and considered dangerous players who dont drift back and get a lot of cheap easy disposals.

That raises the question of who out of Merrett and Shiel will be tagged, cannot see them both being tagged which potentially frees the other one up.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Sorry, what did you cough up for Lynch again?

3 fur-balls.

 

[blitzer]

If treloar was 2x r1 so is Shiel , cough up and pay a fair price

Well if you insist. I'll get Dodoro on the phone. I'll be sure to tell him don't worry about the fact Shiel is like 3 years older than Treloar was and is a completely different player.

 

[Bombfire]

Considerong Shiels game if his kicking is at 60% efficiency i reckon its pretty good.

Much harder to hit a target running at high level speeds that he does when kicking than being a quarter back midfielder like Sam Mitchell

Theres a reason defenders have such high DE and it slowly reduces as you move to wards goal square position.

Also Shiels has been heavily tagged in his career. No doubt harding to hit a target with someone constantly pressuring your disposal.

Theres a reason not many inside midfielders who kick the footy more than handball as pure inside midfielders that dont avg over 70% DE for the past 2 years

I still fail to see any strong evdidence that he isnt a good user via stats.

For comparable players that play similar roles in the midfield/teams id have Jaegar Omeara, Joel Selwood, Dangerfield, Shuey, Zorko

Mate this is what is so appealing about the Dodoro coup in getting Shiel. He's been heavily tagged as you say, but now he comes along to EFC with Zak Merrett by his side to share the tagging. It's a manuscript for a concerted effort in lifting EFC to compete at the pointy end.

 

[Keystone agony]

That raises the question of who out of Merrett and Shiel will be tagged, cannot see them both being tagged which potentially frees the other one up.

No one really tags 2 midfielders in a game these days.

For me Shiel tagged 1st by a fair margin. Shiel was tagged ahead of Kelly for the past 2 years and Kellys sublime.

For me its not necessarily individually what Shiel does next year but more so what others around him now do with the snowball effect.

 

[Zach Package]

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

You dont tag someone week in week out if their not dangerous. I must admit i was very surprised he was tagged heavier than Josh Kelly this year.

Many opposition supporters have laughed at me for this, but I've maintained for quite a while that Shiel is our most important player. He has the ability to create space and make the right decision within his first three steps as good as anyone I've ever seen. Tagging him heavily slows down our ball movement quite a bit, any allowed a slower and more congested style against us, which we really battled with through the middle of the year.

You guys have got yourselves an excellent player, and person.

 

[Keystone agony]

Many opposition supporters have laughed at me for this, but I've maintained for quite a while that Shiel is our most important player. He has the ability to create space and make the right decision within his first three steps as good as anyone I've ever seen. Tagging him heavily slows down our ball movement quite a bit, any allowed a slower and more congested style against us, which we really battled with through the middle of the year.

You guys have got yourselves an excellent player, and person.

What would you expect in return.

I think we will be trying to offer something of value equivilant to pick 1-4 in a draft

I always rated him extremely highly. I must admit i love Josh Kellys game but hes yet to be put under the week in week out tagging attention that Shiels had to handle for the past 3 years. Be interesting to see how he goes next year

Shiel will benefit Zac Merrett the most for me. Id be jumping on his odds of 67 for the brownlow if it wasnt for 12 months away

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

What would you expect in return.

I think we will be trying to offer something of value equivilant to pick 1-4 in a draft

I always rated him extremely highly. I must admit i love Josh Kellys game but hes yet to be put under the week in week out tagging attention that Shiels had to handle for the past 3 years. Be interesting to see how he goes next year

Shiel will benefit Zac Merrett the most for me. Id be jumping on his odds of 67 for the brownlow if it wasnt for 12 months away

Honestly, I don't know. I don't like getting involved in those kinds of discussions because normally opposition supporters get really aggressive if there's a discrepancy in value (not saying you will, I just find bigfooty a more enjoyable place if I don't discuss player value haha)

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Heppel,Merret,Smith,Parish,Langford,Zaharakis,Shiel also McGrath,Stringer,Fantasia can pinch hit

That's a pretty good midfield that bats deep now

 

[Oneiros]

Shocked to see people suggesting JOM would be the preferred player. JOM was a jet, but you can see he's never getting back to his full potential, while Shiel is performing brilliantly.

I thought Hawks were making a big gamble with Jaeger and tbh I think the gamble has failed.

 

[Keystone agony]

Shocked to see people suggesting JOM would be the preferred player. JOM was a jet, but you can see he's never getting back to his full potential, while Shiel is performing brilliantly.

I thought Hawks were making a big gamble with Jaeger and tbh I think the gamble has failed.

Bowes and Liam Ryan

I think its been pretty successful so far for the hawks although they probably just gave up a little bit too much for him

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Shiel didn't have to do that. GWS were quite capable of negotiating that outcome themselves.
Hypothetically:
Shiel:"I'd like to go to Hawthorn please."
GWS:"No you're contracted, you'll go where we tell you to go or you'll stay put".
Shiel:"Oh ok, what about Essendon?"
GWS:"Good choice".

Not saying that is definitely what happened, he might have chosen Essendon first anyway, but if GWS wanted to control which picks they got, I don't see why that isn't what they'd do.

And Connors would have said ok he stays and you’ll get possibly pick 15-18 as compensation when he joins club of his choice next year. Plus you can reduce your cap by giving away another player now.

As if Shiel would make a decision for the next six years of his life based on a few draft picks. You’re dreaming. He picked Essendon over Hawthorn, get over it.

 

[hk89]

You dont tag someone week in week out if their not dangerous. I must admit i was very surprised he was tagged heavier than Josh Kelly this year.

Don't watch enough GWS games to be sure, but I'd guess his role this year where he was responsible for less clearances but more delivery inside 50 might have caused that. At Hawthorn it hasn't been unusual to find Smith tagged and the clearance players let go, so might be a similar thing. Where do you look up tagged stats? I wonder if he was tagged less last year compared to Kelly when his role was different and he was getting more clearances.

Clangers:Kick Ratio (Career stats)

Clangers are not ideal for what you want to measure because I think they include free kicks against, so a player that takes the game on and gets more HTB against looks worse here even if their kicking is ok.

In any case, I think stats undersell Shiel because of how many guns GWS share the load over. Wouldn't be surprised if he wins more AAs at Essendon, depending on how you choose to use him.