Club Focus Essendon 2020 - Caldwell, Hund, Wright, Cox, Perkins, Reid, Eyre, Brand

AFL Club Focus

What is the biggest priority at Essendon?

  • Key forwards

    Votes: 30 29.7%

  • Key defenders

    Votes: 7 6.9%

  • Big mids

    Votes: 52 51.5%

  • Ruck division

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 11 10.9%
  • Total voters
    101

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  • #2

Data from footywire. To check the draft order (updated weekly) see the thread here.
 
Keystone agony said:
Drafting and trading is one variable in oh so many to being able to win a final. I don't think he's been the major issue.

He's been solid without being outstanding. He's got some really quality through the door recently and managed his way out of the saga pretty well I would've thought.

I'd say the saga has far more to do with us not winning a final than Dodos recruiting.

Devon Smith won a B+F
Saad multiple top 3 finishes
Stringer severely under rated how he's performed ina poor side by outsiders
M.Hibberd AA from a PSD pick was it
Fantasia with pick 50s to avg 1.5 goals a game over 4 years before CV
Langford coming good
Parish coming good
Zac Merrett pick 26
Dyson Heppell
Sam Draper a very promising ruck for nothing
Ridley pick 22-24
Tipungwuti late pick

Francis hasn't reached expectations but I feel he will
Laverde not been great
Shiel over paid
Redman looks ok but nothing great
Mcgrath fine the Taranto/Mcluggage debate continues. I think he found ground this year on both

Heavy amount of injury prone players, ongoing saga affecting morale, salaries have been the major issues along with players wanting out too often.

Really if we kept all of Mckenna, Saad, Daniher, Fantasia and all got fit the age bracket of the list in 2-3 years time was coming into the premiership window.

Could've been a jump like Dogs, Richmond, Port, Brisbane.

It's disappointing the players can't see that but I think Rutten hasn't won them over and maybe poor injury rehab/management has meant many need to go elsewhere
Click to expand...
I have been a big, big, big critic of his for some time but looking at what Richmond can do with guys like Tom Atkins, Gryan Miers, Tom Stewart, heck even Mark Blicavs yet we can't turn some of the most talented players in the drafts into anything resembling a standard AFL player.

Development (and strength and conditioning) must be some of the poorest in the AFL.
 

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Red Bull said:
Well, the GF is done and dusted so it’s time to play the game.
The king will dominate this year’s trade period and i can’t wait to watch his grandstanding.
Cometh the hour ... cometh the man !!
Click to expand...

Glad we agree that pick 7 is coming to Essendon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ants said:
I'd just point out that of bloody course you wouldn't mind getting Ryder for what you did. He was a steal for you. A player who was our full time ruck, was contracted for two more years, and you got him for a late first and second in a weak draft? When GWS was offering a top 10 pick at least?

I'd also point out that Steele had been taken by our pick, he was bid on earlier than his list spot and the place he's shown as "drafted" in the 2014 draft is actually the pick used to match the bid. You do seem to be under-rating Langford as well...
Click to expand...
Ok was not aware of the Steele bid process but anyway - you can't have it both ways. You can't say that we bent you over on the Ryder trade and then say that I'm under rating what you got from it. That just strengthens the argument that in fact the picks were not in our favour. It goes back to analysing who won a trade is a stupid thing to do.
And if you did, the one thing that people don't take into account is when you trade a guy in like Ryder - Port only had him playing for 6 seasons and one of those seasons he was suspended. You will have Langford for possibly 12 seasons maybe more. So even if you try to find a win/loss for a trade you can only really attempt to do it when both players finish their career.
So when it comes to trading Saad - Carlton may only have him for 7 seasons so in theory he should be worth less than when you traded for him 3 seasons ago.
Saying that when you got Saad you didn't know he would only play 3 seasons for you.
So in conclusion a trade should only be looked at in isolation to what your club gets. If you improve your list nothing else matters.
 
Ants said:
Looking at that, most trades are pretty easily done, with a few having sticking points. We've generally done reasonably from the trades
Click to expand...
Rather than looking at looking at your opinion of whether the trade was done easy and whether it was in Essendon's favour, have a look at what day and time the deal got done and how many other trades were held up because of it. Last year other than a minor swap of picks with WCE both deals were done on the last afternoon with minor players involving late picks. Both should have been done earlier.
 
Red Bull said:
Would be funny to offer 7 to him on the first morning only to see the goat refuse and ask for Cripps.
Offer then withdrawn and see you in the PSD ...
Love Adrian ... can’t wait !!
Click to expand...

Dodo's a campaigner and I can't wait for him to **** off... but do you guys really want to be the PSD club?
 
longdonkey said:
Rather than looking at looking at your opinion of whether the trade was done easy and whether it was in Essendon's favour, have a look at what day and time the deal got done and how many other trades were held up because of it. Last year other than a minor swap of picks with WCE both deals were done on the last afternoon with minor players involving late picks. Both should have been done earlier.
Click to expand...

according to whom? I don't think a random poster on BigFooty who has any impact or influence on any trades whatsoever is going to bother Adrian Dodoro or any one in the AFL world in fact.

Nice bait though
 
halfback dasher said:
God this bloke could really derail the trade period ......I’m fearful just how long it’s gunna take the Bombers to work through JUST THE INS let alone the outs !!
the flow on effect is going to effect the rest of the comp imo
Click to expand...

Luckily for you we have to do the outs first then hey ;)
 
Yoda_ said:
Pretty over the petty comments from the majority of posters on this board.

Uneducated idiots trying t garner a cheap like. Petty and adding nothing but a like for there ego is possibly the lowest of lows.

Sure, we haven't won a final for 16 years but the talent he has brought through the door has been decent enough, it's as much to do with our poor development as it is our drafting and trading. He has made mistakes but let's not allow facts to get in the way of a good story of why he has asked/done what he has done here.
Click to expand...

If anything can be blamed on Dodoro is the bloke scrounges and scraps for every cent and fights for every advantage he can get for Essendon no matter the lengths.

He is doing the job he is paid to do regardless the gnashing of teeth from opposition clubs and supporters.
 
Heeney2Franklin said:
If anything can be blamed on Dodoro is the bloke scrounges and scraps for every cent and fights for every advantage he can get for Essendon no matter the lengths.

He is doing the job he is paid to do regardless the gnashing of teeth from opposition clubs and supporters.
Click to expand...
Im not sure I can love this post any more than I can. If the shoe was on the other foot, supporters would applaud him for his deals.
 

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Yoda_ said:
according to whom? I don't think a random poster on BigFooty who has any impact or influence on any trades whatsoever is going to bother Adrian Dodoro or any one in the AFL world in fact.

Nice bait though
Click to expand...
Seriously, the Pittonet, Phillips, Cutler trade Essendon gave up a future 3rd Rounder and a Pick downgrade of 14 spots for 2 players. Surely that trade would have got done earlier if it wasn't for one party holding out for a sweet deal and for 2 players you paid virtually nothing.
 
Heeney2Franklin said:
If anything can be blamed on Dodoro is the bloke scrounges and scraps for every cent and fights for every advantage he can get for Essendon no matter the lengths.

He is doing the job he is paid to do regardless the gnashing of teeth from opposition clubs and supporters.
Click to expand...
There is a cost to this though. Fighting so hard for every little thing also earns you a reputation in the league as a difficult person to deal with, and gives your club a bad reputation amongst player managers, because there is a greater chance of no deal being done and your client being left high and dry (like Daniher).

I much prefer the approach Brisbane take, where we don't need to get overs in every deal provided we get the deals done. Would Dodoro have paid pick 12 for Charlie Cameron in 2017 or 6 and 19 for Lachie Neale? They were both seen as a fair price or even slight overs at the time, but getting the deals done helped us. Dodoro would have dragged those out to the last second, if he got them done at all.
 
Yoda_ said:
Daniher is a generational talent. There is no other player in the comp like him hence Dan Richardson's want to save face having just arrived at the club. (not Dodoro's fault - he wanted the deal of 3 & 9)
The culture at the club (re Bellchambers farewell game - again, not Dodor's fault). Blocking a trade (re Fantasia now, he pulled out going to Port - not Dodoro's fault).

So where do any of your points fall on the blame to Dodoro exactly??
Click to expand...
Dan Richardson seems like a knob.

To not do the deal to save face is pretty weak of character.

Saad might be a selfish but Richardson should have been polite and say that he is a required player.

To talk Saad to save face is pretty dumb. You need to pump up Saad tyres so you can get the best deal.

Richardson seems to the selfish one here.
 
Yoda_ said:
GWS requests first rounder

Essendon offer future second with this years second coming with Jye



This is how it usually works. For all his detractors to which you and a few numpty Blues supporters have shown, he gets deals done and in Essendon's favor.

Sure, ask the world all you want but he is a very good negotiator. Look at his track record of deals that have gone through

** edit - before you even dare say it, every more educated Essendon supporter will tell you that Dan Richardson over rode Dodo's want for trading Je for 3 + 9 (which Sydney didn't even have 9 but that's another story)**
Click to expand...
Papley says hi.
 
Mt Isa Mustang said:
Confirmation bias here?
These are all the trades that got done.
Where is the list of all negotiations that Essendon were apart of that nothing came of?
Click to expand...
Other than the Caddy and JD trades, which others have fallen over? And hindsight would indicate we offered well overs for Caddy, but were turned down. GCS then accepted far less the next year.

longdonkey said:
Rather than looking at looking at your opinion of whether the trade was done easy and whether it was in Essendon's favour, have a look at what day and time the deal got done and how many other trades were held up because of it. Last year other than a minor swap of picks with WCE both deals were done on the last afternoon with minor players involving late picks. Both should have been done earlier.
Click to expand...
The problem with this of course is that the bulk of trades are now done late, and often easy ones are left until the clubs have done more complicated ones and know their remaining picks. Last year 23 of the 29 trades done in tradeweek occurred in the last 2 days. In 2018 it was 24 of the 39 trades done (wiki doesn't list day of trade for earlier years).

Are the list managers in the 21 trades late trades last year that EFC wasn't involved with all delaying things as well? You really think the Cutler & Philips trades were holding others up?

longdonkey said:
Ok was not aware of the Steele bid process but anyway - you can't have it both ways. You can't say that we bent you over on the Ryder trade and then say that I'm under rating what you got from it. That just strengthens the argument that in fact the picks were not in our favour. It goes back to analysing who won a trade is a stupid thing to do.
And if you did, the one thing that people don't take into account is when you trade a guy in like Ryder - Port only had him playing for 6 seasons and one of those seasons he was suspended. You will have Langford for possibly 12 seasons maybe more. So even if you try to find a win/loss for a trade you can only really attempt to do it when both players finish their career.
So when it comes to trading Saad - Carlton may only have him for 7 seasons so in theory he should be worth less than when you traded for him 3 seasons ago.
Saying that when you got Saad you didn't know he would only play 3 seasons for you.
So in conclusion a trade should only be looked at in isolation to what your club gets. If you improve your list nothing else matters.
Click to expand...
My comments on Steele and Langford were really an aside, just commenting.

I'm of the personal view point that who was specifically drafted should never be taken into account when valuing a trade. You don't know when the trade is done who will or won't be available (well, unless the trade is for the #1 pick). It certainly shouldn't allow for on-traded picks that have nothing to do with the original trade. If we'd got #17 & a player, we'd have found another way to get Cooney ourselves. Rating the trade based on the club's recruitment and development prowess (and luck) is rather missing the forest for the trees, IMO.

Yes, a youngster can play for longer; however, most draft picks outside the top 10 are failures (and a pretty high rate inside the top 10) so the longevity is offset by the likelihood they won't be successful. The very essence of such a trade is Port was trading for a sure thing in Ryder and giving up possibilities in draft picks. The question is whether a club is giving up enough for what you're getting.

IMO you can certainly look at the players who went around about the mark, to estimate how weak/strong the draft was in that area. What if Langford had been gone at the pick? Looking at who went around the pick, there was (ignoring EFC & club-linked players): Lever, Garlett, Durdin taken immediately before Langford and Boekhurst, H Goddard, McKenzie, McKenna, Nielson taken immediately after. It was a 25% hit rate for those 8 picks, and 1 of the successes was gone 3 picks before our pick. On that basis, the #17 we received had less than a 25% chance of making it, and only our good pick, and luck that Langford wasn't already gone, made a success of it.

On your comment re. Saad, Carlton have more certainty over what they're getting than when we traded for Saad. Hence the long contract at higher $s. They have to pay for that certainty both in contract and trade terms. I would also note that after FA and club-linked bids, #7 is likely to be #11. So we're not even going to get a top 10 player
 
TheKITC said:
Right. So it's only Essendon supporters who are conveniently IMO letting Dodoro off the hook on multiple occasions and no actual sources? Forgive me, but Essendon fans do not have a great track record of recent times with things like this. The 'Stand by Hird' nonsense was an absolute farce and there are still some who are drinking that Kool Aid.

I'm not trying to be combative, but I recently has a similar conversation in the Clayton Oliver thread about how much credence I give ITK posters or 'inside word' - it is bugger all. It's a way for people to try and claim some sort of validity or believability without any real basis IMO. Doesn't wash with me.
Click to expand...
It is obviously everyone's choice how much value they put on what insiders claim as knowledge. I would point out that in this situation these insiders were/aren't commenting on discussions between supporters of various teams. These were in discussions between Essendon supporters. There is no "winner" or "loser" here; if Dodorro wasn't at fault, someone else within the Essendon hierarchy is/was. When insiders say something, it will be considered in light of what they've said before, how well they're regarded as a poster, and, honestly, with the reader's own biases shading things. I have no problems with you casting doubt on this.

However, I would note that if Dodoro is as arrogant as many opposition fans here seem to believe, it is odd that the internal "word" is consistent with him getting more picks to use in the draft. Given, you know, arrogant people will usually back themselves to do well in situations like that.

TheKITC said:
Why is Dodoro constantly allowed to be over-ruled by these people? I get there is hierarchy and approvals sought on large decisions, but why even have him in that position if he is constantly undermined or puppet stringed? Ross Lyon would say "let the bakers bake". You and other Essendon supporters are happy to give him all his 'wins' but as soon as something could rightfully be criticised it's someone else's fault? Doesn't add up.
Click to expand...
The largest trades are ones that impact the entire strategy of a club and their list. I would be surprised if any list manager has the authority to make those trades of their own initiative. Each decision has implications for the short/future term, the club strategy, marketing, etc. Some decisions will, and should be made by the executive or board. That would be just good corporate management.

You also seem to be under a misconception around Dodoro. More EFC fans would want him gone than would want him to stay. Those who follow the draft and recruiting closely are generally bigger fans, but most lay members on places like Blitz want him gone on the basis of his long tenure.
TheKITC said:
I didn't say I did believe it, but it's a media source unlike all these supposed 'inside word' sources and hearsay you are -presenting. Why do you believe them? Got any empirical evidence of these sources track records for being correct?
Click to expand...
I don't believe much from the media this time of year. We know the media are driven by clicks. Look at who is always "linked" to "at risk of leaving" players. Clubs with lots of fans for clicks. We know that player managers and clubs feed information for headlines that help them, to position a trade, to put pressure on a club to increase the offer to a player, etc. I take them, as I take the inside sources, with a grain of salt. When a single reporter makes a claim weeks from trade week that a club manager has asked for way overs as an opening bid, I have doubts on that.

TheKITC said:
Dodoro's reputation is a reputation for a reason IMO. Of that list, that I'm sure took you some time to do (and I can't say I agree with it all) you will note that a lot of the supposed smooth ones were role players / fringe players. Anytime it is someone above that level, he is reported to have made ridiculous demands, over-rates his own players, does the reverse for opposition players and digs his heels in. Why does that narrative keep popping up? Smoke and fire and all that.
Click to expand...
Actually, no, it didn't take me long to do the list at all. I'm a big follower of the drafting/recruiting side of the game. And yes, a lot of the small ones were easier. Duh. But the claim being made here is that Dodoro always over/under rates players in our favour, that players can't move with him, that deals don't get done. And yet the history doesn't back that up. Some big deals have taken longer; that is consistent with most big deals. In 2018 and 2019, the two years Wiki tracks the date of the trades, the bulk of the trades both years happened in the last 2 days. This isn't a Dodoro thing, all the big trades take a while. And big demands and statements are made by clubs, coaches and presidents all the time, yet somehow the Dodoro is the one who is bad at this. Yet his "demands" are always reported by second/third hand sources. Funny that.

The narrative keeps coming up because the media loves a story. I would also note that the media narrative is also that Dodoro is one of the best in the business; so if we believe one, why not the other?

TheKITC said:
You don't have to like it, but that's what is reported in the media and I'm certainly taking it over 'inside sources' that you claim are over-ruling him anytime he is seen to make a mistake in hindsight. I think it's highly convenient that you and/or these inside sources just let him off the hook every time something bad happens or a poor outcome is achieved.

In your breakdown, you are also always passing the buck or shifting blame. GWS did this, St. Kilda were stubborn, the saga (which your club is completely at fault for) hurt us here. So many excuses but I think it's obvious to those unbiased what the common denominator is.

Teflon Dodoro.
Click to expand...
We've said that Dodoro got over-ruled twice. In a single two year period, both times where the decision to put immediate success and perceptions over the longer term were taken (Shiel and JD trades). There is no wide claims saying he got over-ridden in other circumstances. Both went to list strategy where Dodoro is meant to have argued for a longer term approach and taking draft picks, and the club decided to push for a short term approach.

And I stand by that Dodoro had a high degree of difficulty to the saga (which wasn't his fault) in getting trades done. Or do you disagree? Did GWS not delay the Shiel deal to (successfully) force EFC into a corner while they did the Setterfield & Scully trades? My only comment on St Kilda was that my memory was Dodoro did the side deals to get the trade done, and that everyone was happy with the outcome.
 
Heeney2Franklin said:
If anything can be blamed on Dodoro is the bloke scrounges and scraps for every cent and fights for every advantage he can get for Essendon no matter the lengths.

He is doing the job he is paid to do regardless the gnashing of teeth from opposition clubs and supporters.
Click to expand...
I suspect you'd be singing a different tune if his pigheadedness hadn't helped you guys dodge a massive bullet last year.
 
I saw this thread, and thought wow Dodo is up for trade. I wonder what he would be worth? SOS + Wells + a future list manager & maybe some steak knives.
 

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Club Focus Essendon 2020 - Caldwell, Hund, Wright, Cox, Perkins, Reid, Eyre, Brand

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