Ceebee
Norm Smith Medallist
The jumpers looked good
Essendon & St. Kilda NAB Cup *spoiler alert*
- Thread starter royboy2
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The jumpers looked good
And I've been given permission to bid for one. OK, who's bid on No. 38?
pauldrc
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- Aug 17, 2009
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Polec
Actually from what I saw, I was also impressed with Heppell....win/win....
Cousin Jed
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We might have been half a chance against GWS
Hollow Knight
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OMG GWS are a rabble! Sack Sheedy!
Oh wait, they've fielded a bunch of skinny kids...
Wish people had similar perspective with us.
Oh wait, they've fielded a bunch of skinny kids...
Wish people had similar perspective with us.
dlanod
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Ha I'm at the game and was about to post the same. Funny thing is watching some of the Swans supporters having a go at the Giants. It's like getting excited that your dad beat up a high school kid.
Hollow Knight
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Did not enjoy my first glimpse of Rischa playing for the Suns.
on last nights performance even GWS would have cleaned us up.
the worst thing about last night was that brisbane made an ordinary team like essendon look like a million dollars
It probably wouldn't have been a bad game, who knows we may meet them on our travels over the next 3 weeks.
True, but Essendon were only missing David Hille against us. We were missing Power, Adcock, McGrath, Hanley, Brown, Charman, Black, Merrett, Patfull, Harwood, Redden, Polkinghorne and Drummond. Yes we lacked spirit and intensity but we had 9 AFL debutants.
chopperduck
Brownlow Medallist
This sums it up. We had a lot of young players, including many who are new at the club and some who haven't played much footy. With that many new faces all playing at once, it doesn't matter how much fight and spirit you have, your going to get crunched. Was it a great outing, no. Would Voss be overly happy with it, no. But we clearly didn't go out there to win, we are trying to develop our list.
We don't do any practise matches unlike many of the Victorian clubs, that was simply the first real game of footy many of those guys have ever played together. You simply have to be realistic with what you expect.
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Raine's was good at least he got the footy out of defence not his fault he had spuds up forward or on the wing who didn't lead hard enough.
Reardo
I'm Ron Burgundy.
Couldn't care less about last nights results. Polec showed why we took him over Heppell (although Heppell did some nice things too). Once our big guns are back in the side we will see a dramitic improvement, no doubt.
After viewing the games again, i must add that i am concerned for Bam Bam and his development. The biggest issue for him i believe is a lack of role models, apart from Black who i am assuming spends more time trying to get himself right rather than training with the main group bam bam hasn't got anyone to put a rocket up him. His work rate was very poor, didn't follow up his possessions, even on tv when he disposed of the ball you could see him stop!
He didn't seem to hunt the footy or look to get first in line at the contest. His little dinky left foot passes were back as well.
Not bagging Rich- my belief is that he is a potential gun, just not sure what is happening with him though.
He didn't seem to hunt the footy or look to get first in line at the contest. His little dinky left foot passes were back as well.
Not bagging Rich- my belief is that he is a potential gun, just not sure what is happening with him though.
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Agreed & my expectations for the next 3 years are unfortunately not so high.
After watching the young guys from CG & GWS, the expectations are lowered a little further. While we are justifiably getting excited about Polec, etc both clubs have that many talented youngsters (obviously allowing for more at GWS)................ it is not a great time to be heading downwards.
Just need to enjoy our own development, but comparatively we will be pushing it uphill. Thats my dose of realism for the day.
I agree with TBD and others who say that we mustn't get too down over our first outings in something like real competition.
BUT, I am prepared to say that we have been the least impressive of all the NAB teams to date, with the possible exception of GWS. This does not inspire this little black duck with confidence for the future. All very well to go on about "youngsters, untried, etc etc". What about the Gold Coast- they're ALL untried, apart from the odd mature recruit.
What particulary stood out for me is that, apart from Banfield, there was very, very little pressure applied to the ball carrier. This has been a hallmark of our playing style for the past several years. It says to me that we are lazy, unconcerned for our teammates, and generally not up to it. Young blokes should be able to run all day. It's why Hooper used to stand out- because no other bugger did the chasing and harrassing thing.
And if I see Hawksley do his chicken with it's head cut off routine one more time I swear I'll do serious damage to the LCD.
Those who are offering that Hawksley, Buchanan, and Raines are the answer have got to be kidding. Here's a tip- if these blokes get a regular game it will be testament to how bad we're going.
Voss has a well-known antipathy to intra-club trials. OK, that's his prerogative. But the reverse of this is that when they do step out under live fire they should be ready to rock and roll. We were not- we were very far from it.
Last point- the playing personnel should be made to watch the Suns' games- they will observe that even a team of near novices can do the running, blocking, pressuring etc that ALL teams should as a basic starting point.
And a family member tells me that before the Essendon game, Dustin Fletcher was giving Merrett tips on ball drop etc- are we that badly off? We don't have coaches of our own who are paid big $$$ to do such things?
BUT, I am prepared to say that we have been the least impressive of all the NAB teams to date, with the possible exception of GWS. This does not inspire this little black duck with confidence for the future. All very well to go on about "youngsters, untried, etc etc". What about the Gold Coast- they're ALL untried, apart from the odd mature recruit.
What particulary stood out for me is that, apart from Banfield, there was very, very little pressure applied to the ball carrier. This has been a hallmark of our playing style for the past several years. It says to me that we are lazy, unconcerned for our teammates, and generally not up to it. Young blokes should be able to run all day. It's why Hooper used to stand out- because no other bugger did the chasing and harrassing thing.
And if I see Hawksley do his chicken with it's head cut off routine one more time I swear I'll do serious damage to the LCD.
Those who are offering that Hawksley, Buchanan, and Raines are the answer have got to be kidding. Here's a tip- if these blokes get a regular game it will be testament to how bad we're going.
Voss has a well-known antipathy to intra-club trials. OK, that's his prerogative. But the reverse of this is that when they do step out under live fire they should be ready to rock and roll. We were not- we were very far from it.
Last point- the playing personnel should be made to watch the Suns' games- they will observe that even a team of near novices can do the running, blocking, pressuring etc that ALL teams should as a basic starting point.
And a family member tells me that before the Essendon game, Dustin Fletcher was giving Merrett tips on ball drop etc- are we that badly off? We don't have coaches of our own who are paid big $$$ to do such things?
Raines is the clanger king...theres no point getting the ball if youre going to kick it to nobody and give it up...it only comes back over your head for a goal!!! doofus!
Polec didn't do a whole lot, but what he did do was very good. gonna be a player. and because i was sitting right on the fence near the interchange, i can tell you that when he was walking the boundary he was yelling instructions to team-mates about positioning etc. obviously confident in himself to speak up. good signs long term imo.
and very happy to have heppell.
That's what I thougt too. As exciting as our kids are, GC and to a lesser extent GWS at the moment have an abundance of first rate youngsters that will propel them past us very quickly. Even allowing for the Suns and GWS access to the 6 or whatever best 17 year olds prior to the draft, the concessions in the draft went to far. It should only have been say picks 1, 3 and 5, and the first pick of each subsequent round, not 1,2,3,5,7,9,10 and every other concession.
Ryder_Hooker
Senior List
I really liked the look of Polec. Will he be a regular this season??
Hollow Knight
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Would have to think so. He may not be built like Rich was when he arrived, but he has played a similar amount of senior league footy. Should be ready to start on a wing or half forward flank in round 1.
Not much lighter than the old #4, and looks to have as much class as Johnstone (at his best).
You have to be kidding me ??? Raines most often played a tagging role and followed his man into the contests time after time without ever trying to win the ball. When the ball came his way he burnt it time after time after time. After that performance his card should be stamped "never to play AFL football again". Hawksley was the other one who I thought was appalling.
Some things which mystified me with the game:
- why we don't play the specialist clearance players in the centre. Rich, Rockliff and Raines seemed to start in the middle a lot. Beams and Green never did and Harwood only in the second game. Harwood was a definate presence in there when he was there and made me think why he was not there from the start.
- all the talk of skill work in the offseason and we were woefully inept in this regard again. It may be personel but surely quite a bit of it has to be coaching. Methods need to be looked at closely as whatever they are doing now it is not working.
- wtf is with the jogging back in defence? When Woewodin came on board I was hoping for a spike in our clearance work and our midfield defence. No change was evident. Our midfielders do not work at all and just meander back in defence not picking up a man. They are supposedly marking a zone but pay no attention to guys who wander into that space. It seems obvious that our players or coaches have no concept of how to implement a zone. Therefore just go back to man defence. Everyone picks up someone. It's the simplest defence out there and is going to be original given the number of teams going with zone atm.
On particular players:
Rockliff - thank goodness for him. Only midfielder who seemed to be wanting to work.
Harwood - 7 tackles in less than a half of football. He hit them and they stayed hit. Did not play the first game.
McCauley - looked ready for AFL football and I thought he got the better of McEvoy. If he is needed he should be right to go.
Sheldon - looked like he had picked up a yard or two of pace and positioned himself to receive the ball pretty well in the first game. Would be pushing for a spot. Did not play in the second game for some reason after being one of our better players in the first.
Golby - looked impressive in the role which I assume is pidgeon holed for Hanley. High possession winner as a junior and that is probably likely to continue when he gets his chance. Voss rewards preseason stars and he looked most likely.
Polec - didn't do a whole hell of a lot but moved well with the ball and his use was okay. Played very outside though and I would have like to have seen him get his hands dirty a bit more.
Leuenberger - looked heavy and did not move as freely as I would have liked to have seen him.
Clark - a complete nonfactor up forward. Brown in there will help but he needs to put in more effort than he did. Did not ruck at all which was interesting.
Cornelius - wake up Vossy. Everyone worked out last year that he was not a back. He is a forward play the poor guy there. He was completely out of his depth as a back.
Maguire - not much better than Cornelius and was consistently beaten by his man. Merrett and Patfull looked 100 times better than he did. His position in the 22 had to be in doubt based on that performance.
Raines - a liability with the ball in hand and as a consequence you cannot play him.
Hawksley - another liability with the ball in hand who looked slow as treacle to boot. Gone backwards in his time at the Lions.
McGrath - played up forward and did virtually nothing. He needs several kicks up the backside to get him working otherwise send him to the reserves. He adds nothing to the side playing as he did on the weekend.
Banfield - have to be close to our best. One of the few who chased hard defensively and he got his fair share of it goign the other way as well. He is not a forward however and his goal sense is not particularly good.
Austin - did a few okay things early before fading out. Hardly sighted in the second half of the first game and was benched in the second.
Collier - did not get near the ball playing up forward as a defensive player.
Retzlaff - did not get near the ball enough playing up forward. Covered a bit of ground however.
Bewick - did reasonably well in his first outing. Would have to be in contention for round 1. Picked up a few possessions, laid a few tackles and didn't do too much wrong.
Buchanan - added nothing to the side and wasted it a bit when he got the pill. Waste of time us playing him I think as he is not going to get any better.
Staker - did not have a good game. Very quiet and made a few mistakes when he was sighted.
Beams - not played on the ball for some reason. He was okay when he got it but he was not given a big opportunity.
Green - see Beams. Looked okay but didn't get much time in the one game he played in.
Lester - showed a little but nothing to suggest that he should be playing early in the season.
Karnezis - see Lester.
O'Brien - had a patch where he got it a few times but still looks like he struggles with the pace of the game.
Stiller - looked pretty solid when he got the ball but did not get it enough.
Merrett - made a massive difference to the defence when he played in teh second game. He looked pretty fit and I am hoping for an improved year.
Patfull - looked much more comfortable as a cornerstone in defence and he made a difference back there as well when he came on for the second game.
Rich - is not an inside player despite Voss trying to make him one. He needs to be set up as a receiver and given the freedom to use his kick. One positive is that he was looking to kick the ball more on the weekend even if it was often just short chips. He is a weapon that the coaching staff need to work out how to use better.
Some things which mystified me with the game:
- why we don't play the specialist clearance players in the centre. Rich, Rockliff and Raines seemed to start in the middle a lot. Beams and Green never did and Harwood only in the second game. Harwood was a definate presence in there when he was there and made me think why he was not there from the start.
- all the talk of skill work in the offseason and we were woefully inept in this regard again. It may be personel but surely quite a bit of it has to be coaching. Methods need to be looked at closely as whatever they are doing now it is not working.
- wtf is with the jogging back in defence? When Woewodin came on board I was hoping for a spike in our clearance work and our midfield defence. No change was evident. Our midfielders do not work at all and just meander back in defence not picking up a man. They are supposedly marking a zone but pay no attention to guys who wander into that space. It seems obvious that our players or coaches have no concept of how to implement a zone. Therefore just go back to man defence. Everyone picks up someone. It's the simplest defence out there and is going to be original given the number of teams going with zone atm.
On particular players:
Rockliff - thank goodness for him. Only midfielder who seemed to be wanting to work.
Harwood - 7 tackles in less than a half of football. He hit them and they stayed hit. Did not play the first game.
McCauley - looked ready for AFL football and I thought he got the better of McEvoy. If he is needed he should be right to go.
Sheldon - looked like he had picked up a yard or two of pace and positioned himself to receive the ball pretty well in the first game. Would be pushing for a spot. Did not play in the second game for some reason after being one of our better players in the first.
Golby - looked impressive in the role which I assume is pidgeon holed for Hanley. High possession winner as a junior and that is probably likely to continue when he gets his chance. Voss rewards preseason stars and he looked most likely.
Polec - didn't do a whole hell of a lot but moved well with the ball and his use was okay. Played very outside though and I would have like to have seen him get his hands dirty a bit more.
Leuenberger - looked heavy and did not move as freely as I would have liked to have seen him.
Clark - a complete nonfactor up forward. Brown in there will help but he needs to put in more effort than he did. Did not ruck at all which was interesting.
Cornelius - wake up Vossy. Everyone worked out last year that he was not a back. He is a forward play the poor guy there. He was completely out of his depth as a back.
Maguire - not much better than Cornelius and was consistently beaten by his man. Merrett and Patfull looked 100 times better than he did. His position in the 22 had to be in doubt based on that performance.
Raines - a liability with the ball in hand and as a consequence you cannot play him.
Hawksley - another liability with the ball in hand who looked slow as treacle to boot. Gone backwards in his time at the Lions.
McGrath - played up forward and did virtually nothing. He needs several kicks up the backside to get him working otherwise send him to the reserves. He adds nothing to the side playing as he did on the weekend.
Banfield - have to be close to our best. One of the few who chased hard defensively and he got his fair share of it goign the other way as well. He is not a forward however and his goal sense is not particularly good.
Austin - did a few okay things early before fading out. Hardly sighted in the second half of the first game and was benched in the second.
Collier - did not get near the ball playing up forward as a defensive player.
Retzlaff - did not get near the ball enough playing up forward. Covered a bit of ground however.
Bewick - did reasonably well in his first outing. Would have to be in contention for round 1. Picked up a few possessions, laid a few tackles and didn't do too much wrong.
Buchanan - added nothing to the side and wasted it a bit when he got the pill. Waste of time us playing him I think as he is not going to get any better.
Staker - did not have a good game. Very quiet and made a few mistakes when he was sighted.
Beams - not played on the ball for some reason. He was okay when he got it but he was not given a big opportunity.
Green - see Beams. Looked okay but didn't get much time in the one game he played in.
Lester - showed a little but nothing to suggest that he should be playing early in the season.
Karnezis - see Lester.
O'Brien - had a patch where he got it a few times but still looks like he struggles with the pace of the game.
Stiller - looked pretty solid when he got the ball but did not get it enough.
Merrett - made a massive difference to the defence when he played in teh second game. He looked pretty fit and I am hoping for an improved year.
Patfull - looked much more comfortable as a cornerstone in defence and he made a difference back there as well when he came on for the second game.
Rich - is not an inside player despite Voss trying to make him one. He needs to be set up as a receiver and given the freedom to use his kick. One positive is that he was looking to kick the ball more on the weekend even if it was often just short chips. He is a weapon that the coaching staff need to work out how to use better.
whatboutbob
Serial Avatar Troll
I agree with much of your post, but just a passing comment on Goose. I noticed several times, particularly in the first game, where he would leave his man to help out, only to have his opponent take full advantage. I suspect Goose was trying to over-compensate for the youth of those around him and suffered as a result. I often find it difficult to judge individual performances in a drubbing like that.
Pretty good assessment Quigley.
Although I personally am not closing the book on Hawksley and Raines just yet, even if they were pretty shocking on the night. I may very well change my mind by the end of the season though.
Also, I thought O'Brien really showed a bit and seemed like he has improved considerably from last year.
The comment about Rich not being an inside player is an interesting one. I think he definitely can be, but last year I think he was down a bit in that area compared to his first year. It would be good to have him as a receiver, but I am not sure we are going to have that luxury a lot of the time.
The points about our midfield and clearance work though were spot on. We continue to make no improvements as a team in this area despite the low base we are coming from (especially taking out Riska's performance from last year).
Although I personally am not closing the book on Hawksley and Raines just yet, even if they were pretty shocking on the night. I may very well change my mind by the end of the season though.
Also, I thought O'Brien really showed a bit and seemed like he has improved considerably from last year.
The comment about Rich not being an inside player is an interesting one. I think he definitely can be, but last year I think he was down a bit in that area compared to his first year. It would be good to have him as a receiver, but I am not sure we are going to have that luxury a lot of the time.
The points about our midfield and clearance work though were spot on. We continue to make no improvements as a team in this area despite the low base we are coming from (especially taking out Riska's performance from last year).
dlanod
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The other thing I noted regarding Goose was that the rules heavily penalised defenders who would otherwise spoil the ball out of bounds. As a result he looked like he was trying to attack the ball for a mark rather than taking the safe option of a thumping fist, and as a result no one would mark, the ball would tumble over the top and his opponent would get the ball.
