Analysis Finding the root of our problems

[TiggerMan22]

Play with this intensity, effort and will and we make the finals.
That team was far, far, far less talented then our current one. Yet if the team that day played the Richmond on the weekend then they would probably win.

 

[Richo is God]

Sydney were resting all their players that day.

Bullshit. They only rested Buddy

 

[TigerImposter]

I agree with a lot of that TI. They should just keep quiet, or at least give us something that tells us they are hurting and understand what the issue was.
I don't agree with them parroting DH. Dimma called them insipid. The contest we dished up was crap and the coach pointed that out.
Cotch and Morris did not parrot that at all.

More the parroting idea is that its all apologetic lame and non productive or calming to us
I'm not picking on Dimma on this one as he had a right to say what he said Friday night. Having some of the players making apologetic statements makes the whole organisation look lame and incompetent
Morris would have been better of wasting the time taken to organise that sketch in practising on how to stand up on his own two feet
The excuses have worn thin now with a lot of people we really want in field action now and as Someone on here said in another thread " if we lose at least go down fighting for the jumper with nothing left"

 

[Mr Magic]

I've had a couple of roots since the game and I am no wiser as to what the problem is ?
Anyone else had any luck ?

honestly helps and opens up the communication channels

 

[TigerImposter]

Bullshit. They only rested Buddy

They rested five players

 

[Matt_19]

I've noticed that a lot of posters tend to blame our form on a sole cause (which tends to be Dimma or lack of effort on the players' behalf), but I have to disagree with that as - like most problems - I see it as the product of a combination of issues. Having said that, I believe the most important aspect for ultimate success is our list so that's what I'll focus on. I cannot, however, discount the effects of mindset, coaching, etc. in conjunction with that.


To expand on the word 'depth', I think that the lack of quality players outside of our core group has been exposed, most likely due the number of injured fringe players.
Some will disagree, but I believe our best 6 or so players are just about on par with (I'm not saying 'better than') any top-8 side bar probably Sydney, Hawthorn and Freo. So, the likes of:
Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Edwards, Riewoldt, Rance
Then I can list a few quality players who have established themselves as the next tier:
Ivan, Ellis, Miles, Houli, maybe Griff
Now, frankly, this second list is not long enough. Furthermore, there seems to be a very large gap between these players (let's call them B-graders) and the rest of the list.
Vickery, Chaplin, Astbury, Conca (only mid in this third list, there should be 3 or more)
Are all decent, but all CURRENTLY aren't performing well enough to warrant 'B-grade' status. Hopefully natural progress sees them take the step.
McIntosh and Vlastuin are in about the same group quality-wise, but are still very young, so there's not really any problem there.

Which takes my next point: I'm not saying we don't have the players (I've listed 17 who I am more than happy to be part of our starting 22 each week), but a lot of what's missing is too young (with the rest still needing to be recruited).
I expect big things from CEllis and Lennon and to a lesser extent Menadue and McBean. McDonough, Elton, McKenzie, Drummond, Butler are all a chance to make it too. And I've probably forgotten someone.
We are a fairly young side which seems to be often overlooked; most of our better players are likely yet to have reached their prime.

So hopefully we add to our list through free-agency, trading and the draft to address a few holes (quality back-up ruckman, big-bodied inside mid, small forward) and wait for our current youth to develop whilst the natural progression of the rest of the list takes place, and things should come together.

In the meantime, the players' general attitudes need to improve on game day as effort and determination can win games in itself. With the RIGHT attitude (something we haven't displayed yet this season) and our current list we can win one or more finals this year. With that same attitude and the improved list I was talking about, we should be looking to win a flag in a few years. This is the long-term success I previously mentioned, and it's what we're all waiting for.

Finally, the coaching and selection panels need to rethink their respective standpoints; adopt the right game plan for the right application and select relevant players and play them in appropriate positions each week. I won't expand on that because I'm just a fan and I don't know the comprehensive reasoning behind their decisions. I'm not calling for Dimma's head yet.

 

[TigerImposter]

But what about Dusty?

He's been sedated too. No impact in games. Still no tank WTF he should be the next Dane Swan instead he's playing like Steven Sziller minus a heart

 

[Mr Magic]

I've noticed that a lot of posters tend to blame our form on a sole cause (which tends to be Dimma or lack of effort on the players' behalf), but I have to disagree with that as - like most problems - I see it as the product of a combination of issues. Having said that, I believe the most important aspect for ultimate success is our list so that's what I'll focus on. I cannot, however, discount the effects of mindset, coaching, etc. in conjunction with that.


To expand on the word 'depth', I think that the lack of quality players outside of our core group has been exposed, most likely due the number of injured fringe players.
Some will disagree, but I believe our best 6 or so players are just about on par with (I'm not saying 'better than') any top-8 side bar probably Sydney, Hawthorn and Freo. So, the likes of:
Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Edwards, Riewoldt, Rance
Then I can list a few quality players who have established themselves as the next tier:
Ivan, Ellis, Miles, Houli, maybe Griff
Now, frankly, this second list is not long enough. Furthermore, there seems to be a very large gap between these players (let's call them B-graders) and the rest of the list.
Vickery, Chaplin, Astbury, Conca (only mid in this third list, there should be 3 or more)
Are all decent, but all CURRENTLY aren't performing well enough to warrant 'B-grade' status. Hopefully natural progress sees them take the step.
McIntosh and Vlastuin are in about the same group quality-wise, but are still very young, so there's not really any problem there.

Which takes my next point: I'm not saying we don't have the players (I've listed 17 who I am more than happy to be part of our starting 22 each week), but a lot of what's missing is too young (with the rest still needing to be recruited).
I expect big things from CEllis and Lennon and to a lesser extent Menadue and McBean. McDonough, Elton, McKenzie, Drummond, Butler are all a chance to make it too. And I've probably forgotten someone.
We are a fairly young side which seems to be often overlooked; most of our better players are likely yet to have reached their prime.

So hopefully we add to our list through free-agency, trading and the draft to address a few holes (quality back-up ruckman, big-bodied inside mid, small forward) and wait for our current youth to develop whilst the natural progression of the rest of the list takes place, and things should come together.

In the meantime, the players' general attitudes need to improve on game day as effort and determination can win games in itself. With the RIGHT attitude (something we haven't displayed yet this season) and our current list we can win one or more finals this year. With that same attitude and the improved list I was talking about, we should be looking to win a flag in a few years. This is the long-term success I previously mentioned, and it's what we're all waiting for.

Finally, the coaching and selection panels need to rethink their respective standpoints; adopt the right game plan for the right application and select relevant players and play them in appropriate positions each week. I won't expand on that because I'm just a fan and I don't know the comprehensive reasoning behind their decisions. I'm not calling for Dimma's head yet.

I love the opening paragraph. The Coach the Captain, not enough effort seem to be the way people love to blame recently in particular. Is it because they think they can create a climate to push for change in these areas so they pump this aspects up. Don't know.

List changes are harder and harsher, maybe thats why they do not bring it up or they have a conflict of interest with a relationship with a player and want to shield them by bringing up another item like the Captain to coach? Who knows!

 

[1980]

He's been sedated too. No impact in games. Still no tank WTF he should be the next Dane Swan instead he's playing like Steven Sziller minus a heart

Ha Steven Sziller. Dont remind me of that chump. BOG in the Carlton final.

 

[tigertaskforce]

lol some one here has spotted the ACTUAL PROBLEM dimma clones ie play like dimma a solid battling hard nut ROLE PLAYER. every side needs some of these but OUR COACH wants an entire team of them why are we going backwards ? gee I wonder

 

[theflea]

Sydney were resting all their players that day.

Walkover?

 

[theflea]

Bullshit. They only rested Buddy

I understand the swans had some players out, but were they injured or were they genuinely rested for the next week? The reason I say this is we had some who didn't play either. Both Ty or Astbury didn't play either. To top that off, their depth is still better than ours, so its not as if those players were replaced with spuds either.

 

[1980]

I understand the swans had some players out, but were they injured or were they genuinely rested for the next week? The reason I say this is we had some who didn't play either. Both Ty or Astbury didn't play either. To top that off, their depth is still better than ours, so its not as if those players were replaced with spuds either.

They were resting players for the finals. Genuinely. Beating us was a meaningless result for them.

 

[TigerImposter]

lol some one here has spotted the ACTUAL PROBLEM dimma clones ie play like dimma a solid battling hard nut ROLE PLAYER. every side needs some of these but OUR COACH wants an entire team of them why are we going backwards ? gee I wonder

Now now read the essence of my post before you make a little sarcastic rant like that

 

[wegetpumped]

I've noticed that a lot of posters tend to blame our form on a sole cause (which tends to be Dimma or lack of effort on the players' behalf), but I have to disagree with that as - like most problems - I see it as the product of a combination of issues. Having said that, I believe the most important aspect for ultimate success is our list so that's what I'll focus on. I cannot, however, discount the effects of mindset, coaching, etc. in conjunction with that.


To expand on the word 'depth', I think that the lack of quality players outside of our core group has been exposed, most likely due the number of injured fringe players.
Some will disagree, but I believe our best 6 or so players are just about on par with (I'm not saying 'better than') any top-8 side bar probably Sydney, Hawthorn and Freo. So, the likes of:
Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Edwards, Riewoldt, Rance
Then I can list a few quality players who have established themselves as the next tier:
Ivan, Ellis, Miles, Houli, maybe Griff
Now, frankly, this second list is not long enough. Furthermore, there seems to be a very large gap between these players (let's call them B-graders) and the rest of the list.
Vickery, Chaplin, Astbury, Conca (only mid in this third list, there should be 3 or more)
Are all decent, but all CURRENTLY aren't performing well enough to warrant 'B-grade' status. Hopefully natural progress sees them take the step.
McIntosh and Vlastuin are in about the same group quality-wise, but are still very young, so there's not really any problem there.

Which takes my next point: I'm not saying we don't have the players (I've listed 17 who I am more than happy to be part of our starting 22 each week), but a lot of what's missing is too young (with the rest still needing to be recruited).
I expect big things from CEllis and Lennon and to a lesser extent Menadue and McBean. McDonough, Elton, McKenzie, Drummond, Butler are all a chance to make it too. And I've probably forgotten someone.
We are a fairly young side which seems to be often overlooked; most of our better players are likely yet to have reached their prime.

So hopefully we add to our list through free-agency, trading and the draft to address a few holes (quality back-up ruckman, big-bodied inside mid, small forward) and wait for our current youth to develop whilst the natural progression of the rest of the list takes place, and things should come together.

In the meantime, the players' general attitudes need to improve on game day as effort and determination can win games in itself. With the RIGHT attitude (something we haven't displayed yet this season) and our current list we can win one or more finals this year. With that same attitude and the improved list I was talking about, we should be looking to win a flag in a few years. This is the long-term success I previously mentioned, and it's what we're all waiting for.

Finally, the coaching and selection panels need to rethink their respective standpoints; adopt the right game plan for the right application and select relevant players and play them in appropriate positions each week. I won't expand on that because I'm just a fan and I don't know the comprehensive reasoning behind their decisions. I'm not calling for Dimma's head yet.

Game plan sux it's down to coaching. Player's sux it's down to coach's asking recruiter's to find what they want. Playing fav player's that sux it's down to coach's. I agree we have a core of top line player's but how often do they all play out of there skins to help the lesser like's? I have seen 1 player make a difference to a side eg Mitchell for the hawk's,Selwood cats, do we have one that we can say can turn a game on it's head? We need to have people at the club to make hard decisions as in everything it all start's at the top and work's it's way down.

 

[tigertaskforce]

Now now read the essence of my post before you make a little sarcastic rant like that

essence being they have had the flair coached out of them as I said turned into dimma clones battling role players

 

[TigerImposter]

essence being they have had the flair coached out of them as I said turned into dimma clones battling role players

sorry mate i thought you were taking the mickey out of my statement which was on the same suggestion

 

[Matty G Tigers]

Pretty tired of having the ball at half back and seeing no one move fwd of the ball. Then having to kick it long down the line. This is what we did in 2010. Wouldn't mind if the team evolved past this. Run take the game on, take a chance.

 

[Matty G Tigers]

Also wouldn't mind bringing some intensity to the contest, seeing bodies being thrown in And having a go, have a desire to tackle as well. Don't want to see that wishy washy attitude that relies on the other team being poor to win the ball.

 

[theflea]

They were resting players for the finals. Genuinely. Beating us was a meaningless result for them.

They may have but it doesn't mean that we werent missing some either(see astbury), and it wasn't as if they didn't try to win too. As I said before, they still had some pretty good replacements that came in too. These are the game they still win anyway.

 

[CoggaRules]

The root of our problems are Jackson and Hartley...they have failed to deliver anything outside servicable players in the last 5 years..worse, half the draftees still cant get into the 22. I mean, take a look at this year....out of the Lennons, Donuts, Eltons, McBeans etc...we are promoting Hunts, Lamberts and Drummonds...like WTF?? how is it that this years crop get a call up and the rest are hidden????

 

[Livonski]

lol some one here has spotted the ACTUAL PROBLEM dimma clones ie play like dimma a solid battling hard nut ROLE PLAYER. every side needs some of these but OUR COACH wants an entire team of them why are we going backwards ? gee I wonder

If they had played with the intensity our coach played with we'd have won by ten goals.

 

[sante]

If they had played with the intensity our coach played with we'd have won by ten goals.

Whose fault is it if they don't?

 

[Livonski]

Whose fault is it if they don't?

Is that a trick question?

I played plenty of footy and sometimes had days when I was not as intense as others. Do you reckon I blamed the coach?
FFS this is a crock.
But yes, he'll probably get the sack for their lack of intensity

And seriously, read my post and the post I responded to. IT was suggested that he picks blokes like him. Well they were not like him last Friday, were they?
Fair response?

 

[sante]

Is that a trick question?

I played plenty of footy and sometimes had days when I was not as intense as others. Do you reckon I blamed the coach?
FFS this is a crock.
But yes, he'll probably get the sack for their lack of intensity

And seriously, read my post and the post I responded to. IT was suggested that he picks blokes like him. Well they were not like him last Friday, were they?
Fair response?

Was a genuine question...I think the effort etc is there its the lack of skill/poise which is killing us. But if it's not there is it the players? Probably, but its natural but I think they've been trying every week.