first test of the aussie summer 23/24

[Voice of the G]

Good to have Punter on your side.

I also agree with him, Green has to bide his time.

Ponting picks Warner's Test successor | cricket.com.au

Australia legend Ricky Ponting says WA opener Cameron Bancroft leads the race to replace David…

www.cricket.com.au

Good to see Ponting mentioning Maxwell,surely he deserves a game of red ball cricket some where even it is in shield cricket to push his claims for test cricket. Also agree with him in regards to Bancroft as the next opener as he has the runs on board so far.

 

[Westend]

Radio was saying they are going to name the team on monday ??

 

[The 747]

Yo bro..

Yeah I think we are losing the dynamic opener that Warner provides ..when he is in form and at his best.

That's why Warner was selected his ability to bring that high tempo at the top.....and yes I agree we have had long periods of poor returns from him. But I think its important that we have a batter at the top that puts pressure on the opposition. With the field up the bowler knows if he stuffs up he is going to go the distance....If we have two grinders up there and take nothing away from Ussie who has been brilliant...just think it will be the wrong tempo...and both Bancroft and Renshaw are grinders

I see the reservations with Head and I understand them at 5 which he is very good at but he opens in the white ball I reckon he can do it Test level. Look at Sehwag...not a great technique you can argue as an opener but an absolute gun who can take the game away from you in a sess Head we have seen can do the same IMO

He can still be a captaincy option opening....look at Tubby Taylor .G Smith M Atherton

Yeah I see your point about Warner and putting pressure on the opposition. And Uzzie won't be around for too much longer so we face the prospect of two inexperienced slow scoring openers, then both Marnus and Smith who some days don't seem to bother about scoring at all (sometimes they do bat at a decent tempo). Then we have a team with only one batter plus a wicket keeper who bat with an attacking mindset.

Head has to be in the team to be a captaincy option and that's my concern, that he doesn't work as an opener and winds up out of the team. If that plan worked well and good, my concerns are the consequences everywhere if it doesn't.

 

[Coops93]

Another thing to consider when Warner goes...is we are going to be losing that dynamic player at the top .

We aren't really. Warner hasn't been a dynamic, fast scoring opener for a long, long time. People are remembering his batting from 5+ years ago. His career SR of 70 is elite, but has gradually dropped from the high 70s over the past 5 yrs.

The last 4 yrs his SR is 58. Still good, definitely not slow, but it's a long way from being the dynamic and aggressive opener he once was and is still often described as. By comparison his first ~6 yrs his SR was 78.

We lost that dynamic player at the top years ago, coincidentally or otherwise, around the time he was banned.

Incidentally, the big drop in SR coincides with a big drop in average. 36 at 58 vs 48 at 78.

 

[Coops93]

Further to the above, my theory is he tried to more of a traditional opener and defend a bit more at the top which is obviously not his game. I suggest that as his S/R and hitting ability hasn't had the same drop in the white ball forms, meaning it's got to be a mentality shift facing the red ball.

Similar time periods to above, first 7 yrs and last 4 or so yrs (barring the middle period where we know there was some... unpleasantness)
.......................AVG/SR
Test - First 7 yrs 48/78 - Last 4 yrs 36/58

ODI - First 7 yrs 45/97 - last 4 yrs 49/98

T20I - First 7 yrs 26/135 - Last 4 yrs 52/143

ODI is similar, but better in the past 4 and T20 has gotten much better in both areas, while tests he's dropped both massively. So that leads me to my theory above r.e. his test performances. His value was his aggressiveness and even if it cost him at times he was clearly better off playing that way.

 

[cricketnut14]

good to see green get 96 today.

 

[corbies]

Further to the above, my theory is he tried to more of a traditional opener and defend a bit more at the top which is obviously not his game. I suggest that as his S/R and hitting ability hasn't had the same drop in the white ball forms, meaning it's got to be a mentality shift facing the red ball.

Similar time periods to above, first 7 yrs and last 4 or so yrs (barring the middle period where we know there was some... unpleasantness)
.......................AVG/SR
Test - First 7 yrs 48/78 - Last 4 yrs 36/58

ODI - First 7 yrs 45/97 - last 4 yrs 49/98

T20I - First 7 yrs 26/135 - Last 4 yrs 52/143

ODI is similar, but better in the past 4 and T20 has gotten much better in both areas, while tests he's dropped both massively. So that leads me to my theory above r.e. his test performances. His value was his aggressiveness and even if it cost him at times he was clearly better off playing that way.

I think his eyes went a touch in all honesty and he changed the way he played because of it. He used to slap anything outside off through extra cover early in his innings using little footwork but a heap of hand-eye. As he got older he just lost that ability and it meant he was edging balls outside off that he used to slap for 4. From that point he starting being more circumspect outside off stump.

 

[Coops93]

I think his eyes went a touch in all honesty and he changed the way he played because of it. He used to slap anything outside off through extra cover early in his innings using little footwork but a heap of hand-eye. As he got older he just lost that ability and it meant he was edging balls outside off that he used to slap for 4. From that point he starting being more circumspect outside off stump.

Could be true, however that doesn't line up with his white ball stats which are better as he's got older. If his eye was going his S/R at least would be dropping in those forms as well but it's up.

To me even visually watching him bat in tests he doesn't look to put the pressure anywhere near as much as opposed to him not hitting the ball as well

 

[Around the Wicket]

Its against 2 sides that historically are useless in Australia, it won't matter who we pick LMAO

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Could be true, however that doesn't line up with his white ball stats which are better as he's got older. If his eye was going his S/R at least would be dropping in those forms as well but it's up.

To me even visually watching him bat in tests he doesn't look to put the pressure anywhere near as much as opposed to him not hitting the ball as well

Might be his ability to pick up late movement. In white ball cricket, throwing your hands at it can still work, particularly on flat white ball wickets with fielding restrictions. In tests that’s less likely to fly, and his hesitancy probably exacerbated that.

 

[Cainozz]

good to see green get 96 today.

Definitely want him in for the first test. Good opportunity for the young fella to fill his boots a bit and get his confidence up. People forget that he scored his maiden ton a few tests ago. Batting average of 34 as a number 6 all-rounder is more than fine. Marsh, while I love what the Bison has done in the last 2 years, provides a great option as depth. I think having that mindset as a depth player has probably helped him with a ‘nothing to lose’ kinda attitude. I love that for him and think he would be great as our T20 captain.

 

[toml]

The last person on earth you would expect an absolutely horrific take from, Ricky Ponting, is advocating for Glenn Maxwell to play test cricket this Summer. What on earth if the point of giving a 35 year a few token home tests against teams we should beat easily? Absolutely nothing to gain if his inclusion means we leave Cam Green out and deny him an opportunity to gain some experience and confidence by scoring runs and taking wickets against slightly weaker teams. I simply can not get my head around the rationale of it all. Spilled over emotion from his WC feats I guess? I love watching Maxi do his thing in white ball cricket as much as the next person but there is absolutely zero reason for anyone to genuinely suggest he plays test cricket this Summer. Found it a very weird take considering Ricky is generally on the ball with most comments he makes.

 

[JackOutback]

Good point, picking Green for series against England, India, Pakistan away, then dropping him when he has the chance to consolidate is a bit poor. He’s done the hard yards and not failed, would be nice to see how he goes in more favourable conditions.

 

[Cainozz]

The last person on earth you would expect an absolutely horrific take from, Ricky Ponting, is advocating for Glenn Maxwell to play test cricket this Summer. What on earth if the point of giving a 35 year a few token home tests against teams we should beat easily? Absolutely nothing to gain if his inclusion means we leave Cam Green out and deny him an opportunity to gain some experience and confidence by scoring runs and taking wickets against slightly weaker teams. I simply can not get my head around the rationale of it all. Spilled over emotion from his WC feats I guess?

Reminds me a bit of the hype around George Bailey before the 13/14 ashes at home after he plundered runs in the white ball formats all year. Doesn’t always translate to red ball success. Difference is we were trying to find someone for no.6 back then but we have plenty of options now.

 

[The 747]

The last person on earth you would expect an absolutely horrific take from, Ricky Ponting, is advocating for Glenn Maxwell to play test cricket this Summer. What on earth if the point of giving a 35 year a few token home tests against teams we should beat easily? Absolutely nothing to gain if his inclusion means we leave Cam Green out and deny him an opportunity to gain some experience and confidence by scoring runs and taking wickets against slightly weaker teams. I simply can not get my head around the rationale of it all. Spilled over emotion from his WC feats I guess? I love watching Maxi do his thing in white ball cricket as much as the next person but there is absolutely zero reason for anyone to genuinely suggest he plays test cricket this Summer. Found it a very weird take considering Ricky is generally on the ball with most comments he makes.

The horse has bolted re: Maxwell. Too late now. Can't help thinking he is a bit of a missed opportunity at Test level, not sure whether that is on the selectors, or Maxwell or a bit of both.

 

[The 747]

Good point, picking Green for series against England, India, Pakistan away, then dropping him when he has the chance to consolidate is a bit poor. He’s done the hard yards and not failed, would be nice to see how he goes in more favourable conditions.

Failed in England. The question here is more about whether the bloke who replaced him and averaged 50 in England should be dropped for Green.

I understand that Green is our best (and maybe only) elite prospect in Test cricket but the amount of molly coddling this forum wants the team admin to do is OTT for a player who is at the moment a passable all rounder - ie move our actually performing batters to different positions to accommodate Green, change our bowling strategies to accommodate Green.

I can't think of another Australian Test prospect where these sorts of things have been proposed.

 

[JackOutback]

Failed in England. The question here is more about whether the bloke who replaced him and averaged 50 in England should be dropped for Green.

I understand that Green is our best (and maybe only) elite prospect in Test cricket but the amount of molly coddling this forum wants the team admin to do is OTT for a player who is at the moment a passable all rounder - ie move our actually performing batters to different positions to accommodate Green, change our bowling strategies to accommodate Green.

I can't think of another Australian Test prospect where these sorts of things have been proposed.

Steve Waugh got plenty of chances. Guess why? And look how that turned out.

Green hasn't been a failure, he underperformed in England but his overall record is still superior to Mitch. We can talk about his average of 50 in England, but it was very front-loaded.

 

[Voice of the G]

The horse has bolted re: Maxwell. Too late now. Can't help thinking he is a bit of a missed opportunity at Test level, not sure whether that is on the selectors, or Maxwell or a bit of both.

Selectors have a lot to answer for,the No.1 aim for them was Maxwell to focus on white ball cricket.Only played 6 tests and scored a ton in India and never to play test cricket in Australia.Not enough chances given to him in test cricket when you look at the chances a guy like Warner has got.

 

[cricketnut14]

Selectors have a lot to answer for,the No.1 aim for them was Maxwell to focus on white ball cricket.Only played 6 tests and scored a ton in India and never to play test cricket in Australia.Not enough chances given to him in test cricket when you look at the chances a guy like Warner has got.

reminds me of an andrew symonds type player with a similar FC batting ave of 40 and an elite fielder.

maxy holds his own against the likes of bancroft, harris, renshaw (FC batting ave) and has the added advantage of being a 2nd spinner or a 3rd spinner on the sub continent.

his time has passed for any further opportunities in the test team with no test tours to the sub continent until 2025.

 

[Voice of the G]

reminds me of an andrew symonds type player with a similar FC batting ave of 40 and an elite fielder.

maxy holds his own against the likes of bancroft, harris, renshaw (FC batting ave) and has the added advantage of being a 2nd spinner or a 3rd spinner on the sub continent.

his time has passed for any further opportunities in the test team with no test tours to the sub continent until 2025.

Only chance would be the Sydney test if a spinners wicket although these days is not.No chance of playing any red ball cricket until February unless he plays a couple of Premier Cricket games.

 

[The 747]

Steve Waugh got plenty of chances. Guess why? And look how that turned out.

Green hasn't been a failure, he underperformed in England but his overall record is still superior to Mitch. We can talk about his average of 50 in England, but it was very front-loaded.

What does Steve Waugh getting chances have to do with the price of fish? That was not what I posted about. I posted about proposals to move everyone else around and whether Marsh should be dropped for Green.

 

[Voice of the G]

What does Steve Waugh getting chances have to do with the price of fish? That was not what I posted about. I posted about proposals to move everyone else around and whether Marsh should be dropped for Green.

Looks like it is between Marsh and Green.I would select Green.

 

[JackOutback]

What does Steve Waugh getting chances have to do with the price of fish? That was not what I posted about. I posted about proposals to move everyone else around and whether Marsh should be dropped for Green.

Steve Waugh was just an example of Australia giving a Test prospect plenty of chances and 'molly-coddling' because of his unique set of skills. As for the rest, I'm not suggesting anyone move around the order, Mitch got a nice hundred, but other than that, doesn't demand selection, particularly in light of his long record. Green to replace Mitch.

 

[The 747]

Steve Waugh was just an example of Australia giving a Test prospect plenty of chances and 'molly-coddling' because of his unique set of skills. As for the rest, I'm not suggesting anyone move around the order, Mitch got a nice hundred, but other than that, doesn't demand selection, particularly in light of his long record. Green to replace Mitch.

We didn't bat AB at number 3 to accommodate Steve Waugh, or send Mo Mathews to open the batting, or bring Warne on fourth change so Waugh could get more overs. Which is what some of the posts on here I was commenting about have been suggesting should be done for Green.

 

[The 747]

Looks like it is between Marsh and Green.I would select Green.

I would select the all rounder who performed better in the last series on principle*, although I would have to say I don't particularly like the outcome there. Hopefully Green puts up strong domestic numbers to support a recall.

*Marsh would be stiff to be dropped but then again he can't really argue selection has been against him over his career, more the other way around.