Preview Rd 20 Geelong v North Sat July 27 2024 145 pm @ Tassie

[catempire]

Hardie:

A. Is lacking something the MC wants to see in an AFL midfielder

Or

B. Is lacking nothing and the MC are imbeciles

 

[Kitcat]

Define "suddenly". I think mannaghs seniors performances between round 2 and the last few weeks are vastly different

They may be but his performances in the VFL for the previous 6 games before his recall to the seniors were of a consistent high standard. So why wasn’t he chosen earlier, as he has played really well in the last 3 games?

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Well come on then , show us Cam Mooneys goal in the 2nd qtr of that final , one of the all time great Geelong finals goals

In fact i would rate it 2nd in the list of all time great Geel finals goals , the only one i would rate better than it was Billy Goggins drop kick on the run goal in the 1st qtr of the 1967 GF against Richmond , skillwise that is the best one ever .

Where would you rate Varcoe’s last quarter 2011 GF goal?

 

[Cataholic]

Hardie:

A. Is lacking something the MC wants to see in an AFL midfielder

Or

B. Is lacking nothing and the MC are imbeciles

Honestly don't know the answer.

I suspect it's A, but that would've been evident before they brought him over given his age, would it not?

But then their procrastination with Mannagh makes me wonder if there isn't an element of B in it all.

 

[Kitcat]

Hardie:

A. Is lacking something the MC wants to see in an AFL midfielder

Or

B. Is lacking nothing and the MC are imbeciles

The MC chose to drop Neale and we saw Lobb pluck a muddy ball out of the air on a wet night without any of our forwards touching him. The MC make mistakes.

 

[cats_09]

This is simply not the case. Even if he is done now, it is long after he started at the club. It seems that the Cats put him on the list, watched him closely at training and in games over a longish period, and formed the view he wasn't preferable to a bunch of other players on the list competing for a similar role in the senior side.

We (fans) get to watch these players during games

The coaches get to watch them not only during games but also at training each week in an environment where they're matching up teammates - both in terms of those whom they may be competing against for a senior spot, but also for that connection/cohesion as a unit

Sometimes it can simply be the case that a team has drafted a nice player, but they just don't end up the right fit

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Where would you rate Varcoe’s last quarter 2011 GF goal?

Pretty damm good

 

[cats_09]

Hardie:

A. Is lacking something the MC wants to see in an AFL midfielder

Or

B. Is lacking nothing and the MC are imbeciles

Pretty sure we've seen this suggested on more than a few occasions over the past decade in regards to different players

How many of those players whom the MC apparently continually overlook, have found a new home and made our coaches look silly for not selecting them on a more regular basic - this isn't including those who spent more time with the rehab group than on the field & thus not really available for regular selection

 

[catempire]

Honestly don't know the answer.

I suspect it's A, but that would've been evident before they brought him over given his age, would it not?

But then their procrastination with Mannagh makes me wonder if there isn't an element of B in it all.

Not necessarily. He was playing in the SANFL as a non professional. He comes here to play full time and gets the best fitness, skills, diet and coaching and that can lift a player up to the required standard or they just might not have it.

 

[catempire]

The MC chose to drop Neale and we saw Lobb pluck a muddy ball out of the air on a wet night without any of our forwards touching him. The MC make mistakes.

Sure. This mistake that’s staring them in the face for 40-odd games. They just don’t get it I suppose.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They may be but his performances in the VFL for the previous 6 games before his recall to the seniors were of a consistent high standard. So why wasn’t he chosen earlier, as he has played really well in the last 3 games?

Because while they were good we had very good small forward already named. Since mannaghs inclusion has Miers output dropped? Two solids cannot occupy the same space and time

 

[goyoucatters]

The MC chose to drop Neale and we saw Lobb pluck a muddy ball out of the air on a wet night without any of our forwards touching him. The MC make mistakes.

Sure. But are we suggesting that they are ignorant enough and obstinate enough to make the same mistake with the same player for whole seasons at a time? Seems fairly unlikely to me.

 

[Cataholic]

Not necessarily. He was playing in the SANFL as a non professional. He comes here to play full time and gets the best fitness, skills and coaching and that can lift a player up to the required standard or they just might not have it.

Fair call.

I've not been able to watch him, and as I posited in my original post I have no idea whether or not the MC are doing the right thing.

It does appear odd though, from afar, that he's been given no chance at all, and I guess that conspiracy theory is fuelled a little bit by my lingering doubt of the astuteness shown by our MC this year.

 

[Cataholic]

Sure. But are we suggesting that they are ignorant enough and obstinate enough to make the same mistake with the same player for whole seasons at a time? Seems fairly unlikely to me.

Yeah probably, but they WERE slow to react with Mannagh.

 

[cats_09]

 

[goyoucatters]

My point was that he wasn't given the benefit of a go at senior level..... he's been ruled out full stop.

Again, he's hardly in a select group who've been on a list at an AFL club and have never had a run at senior level. That group would run into the hundreds over recent years across the comp. So even if he has been ruled out, it's hardly without precedent that this happens in the AFL system without playing senior games.

We've seen players play better in the AFL than the VFL, but he's not getting the benefit of that possibility either.

Which players of recent years would you suggest fit this category?

 

[Cataholic]

Again, he's hardly in a select group who've been on a list at an AFL club and have never had a run at senior level. That group would run into the hundreds over recent years across the comp. So even if he has been ruled out, it's hardly without precedent that this happens in the AFL system without playing senior games.

Which players of recent years would you suggest fit this category?

Some were saying Mannagh, Neale and Clohesy weren't up to it on VFL form not so long ago.

 

[cats_09]

What about this side of things in regards to the Mannagh senior selection...

He plays rounds 1 & 2 before returning to the VFL where he was playing predominantly as a small forward and at times he was playing as the deepest forward

Watching him across a few VFL games during this period, I remember commenting how his role in the VFL reminded me of the role we see from Stengle in the seniors. I also raised the question if part of the reason for drafting Mannagh may have been as something of insurance incase Stengle opted to exercise his FA rights, and as we know there was multiple other clubs showing serious interest

Other posters commented about how we weren't running Shaun through the middle & seeing what he could offer outside of the small forward role

The week that we saw a clear shift in how Mannagh was being used and him getting more of a run as part of the midfield rotation in the VFL was also the weekend before the announcement of Stengle re-signing for the next 5 years


Did Tyson's re-signing also somewhat force a rethink for how Shaun was being used or how we could utilise him, because that VFL match before his senior recall was a crazy good game, and probably the first time we had really seen him playing up at the contest for extended periods

 

[Cataholic]

What about this side of things in regards to the Mannagh senior selection...

He plays rounds 1 & 2 before returning to the VFL where he was playing predominantly as a small forward and at times he was playing as the deepest forward

Watching him across a few VFL games during this period, I remember commenting how his role in the VFL reminded me of the role we see from Stengle in the seniors. I also raised the question if part of the reason for drafting Mannagh may have been as something of insurance incase Stengle opted to exercise his FA rights, and as we know there was multiple other clubs showing serious interest

Other posters commented about how we weren't running Shaun through the middle & seeing what he could offer outside of the small forward role

The week that we saw a clear shift in how Mannagh was being used and him getting more of a run as part of the midfield rotation in the VFL was also the weekend before the announcement of Stengle re-signing for the next 5 years


Did Tyson's re-signing also somewhat force a rethink for how Shaun was being used or how we could utilise him, because that VFL match before his senior recall was a crazy good game, and probably the first time we had really seen him playing up at the contest for extended periods

You could be onto something - but then something about it sounds like the hammering of a round peg into a square hole......

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Precisely. Less informed and less relevant, yet the tone of some remarks on him as if it is gospel.

He's a 27 year old mid-season draft pick who can't get a game.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade, and you don't need to know every nitty gritty detail to understand what's going on.

Nobody's questioned his character, effort, or anything out of line. They've just said it's highly likely VFL is his ceiling, and that's a reasonable opinion off the evidence we have.

I also seem to remember you branding Neale a "VFL standard forward" to go with your continuous Parfitt bashing.

You can't keep picking and choosing the standard you hold others to compared with yourself.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I’m judging the body of work, not just one game. His illness came at a bad time but he needed to show more than he did last week. He was invisible. At some point a player in his position either steps up or they step back into obscurity. I’m confident he’s in the latter category sadly.

You've held that view for a while now CE, and fair enough.

I'm a bit more optimistic on Knevitt, but would ultimately argue that he really hasn't had enough exposure to judge one way or another.

Regardless, I thought last week was easily the worst of his 13 games to date.
Still only 21, 193cm, and can cover the kms. Out of contract at the end of 2025 according my sources (errr, Footywire) and I for one am content enough to see how it plays out over that time.

Of course if his name comes up during trade week and the price is right ....

 

[Cataholic]

He's a 27 year old mid-season draft pick who can't get a game.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade, and you don't need to know every nitty gritty detail to understand what's going on.

Nobody's questioned his character, effort, or anything out of line. They've just said it's highly likely VFL is his ceiling, and that's a reasonable opinion off the evidence we have.

I also seem to remember you branding Neale a "VFL standard forward" to go with your continuous Parfitt bashing.

You can't keep picking and choosing the standard you hold others to compared with yourself.

I just don't understand why the club gave him false hope when you'd think that at 26, with a solid body of work, they would've already 'known' he wouldn't make it.

He wasn't a kid - he had runs on the board, and a record of performance for them to analyse.

But it's a ruthless business.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

He's a 27 year old mid-season draft pick who can't get a game.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade, and you don't need to know every nitty gritty detail to understand what's going on.

Nobody's questioned his character, effort, or anything out of line. They've just said it's highly likely VFL is his ceiling, and that's a reasonable opinion off the evidence we have.

I also seem to remember you branding Neale a "VFL standard forward" to go with your continuous Parfitt bashing.

You can't keep picking and choosing the standard you hold others to compared with yourself.

If you're going to cast dispersions then you should get the context right. It was a discussion about getting Harley Reid and the cost one person said was 3xR1 and Neale. I said where do I sign, R1s and VFL forward... as in was at the time playing VFL.

As for BP. I only comment on his ability, and lately sit here with a smug face knowing I was ahead of the curve and got the call right years before the rest caught on. Which is relevant given you literally just said this about Hardie "Nobody's questioned his character, effort, or anything out of line.". Nor have I.

 

[Vdubs]

Where would you rate Varcoe’s last quarter 2011 GF goal?

Was my avatar til he became a Pie; LOVED it.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Hardie is the most discussed Geelong player ( who hasnt played a senior game ) since Dean Gore