Football Related Random Thread - PART 2

[Nunez]

I don’t mean that at all.

So you have no problem with someone learning the lines of a language they’re not potentially familiar with, performing such a ceremony.

You're embarassing yourself mate. You're a white guy being critical of indigenous people doing their welcome to country in a way that doesn't fit with your expectations. I would say it's bordering on racist, but I think you've crossed that border.

 

[Elixuh]

I don’t mean that at all.

So you have no problem with someone learning the lines of a language they’re not potentially familiar with, performing such a ceremony.

You strike me as someone who has some level of formal education, what're you doing? Your want for Indigenous people to conform to your stereotypes is ****ing disgusting.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I don’t mean that at all.

So you have no problem with someone learning the lines of a language they’re not potentially familiar with, performing such a ceremony.

It’s a miracle that even partial records of some of these languages exist. Most of the 250+ indigenous languages spoken pre-settlement have been almost entirely lost forever.

Honestly dude, the cultural and historical blind spots you have really make this a bizarre line of inquiry to pursue.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You strike me as someone who has some level of formal education, what're you doing? Your want for Indigenous people to conform to your stereotypes is ******* disgusting.

It would be like a white American saying they would have taken MLK Jr more seriously as a spokesperson for African American civil rights if he had carried a spear and worn a bone through his nose.

 

[briztoon]

Alright, I can’t reply to every post here.

Two of the performances sounded to me like they were performed by people who struggled with the language. Hollow Knight these are languages that we have had welcome to country in many times before, by different individuals. It made me question the AFL’s choice of performer.

You strike me as someone who has some level of formal education, what're you doing? Your want for Indigenous people to conform to your stereotypes is ******* disgusting.

This I take on board.

I wasn’t looking for a stereotype.

Welcome to country doesn’t have to be performed by someone with darker skin.

 

[Nunez]

I expect to cop some flak for this.

And I do not know how to phrase this appropriately.


I know there are many Aboriginal people with lighter skin, but I find most of the “welcome to country elders” that represent the AFL very “white”, and they don’t really represent the traditional owners of our land, to my eyes.

How is it a s**t comment when it sounded like two of the participants on different nights, sounded like they were reciting a learned script and didn’t actually know the language they were speaking.

Hollow Knight I am very much aware of what happened to Aboriginal peoples in Australia. Back in the 80’s my mother did an Aboriginal rangers course, and I traveled all over QLD with my mum, visiting many communities and sites, learning about their cultures and their histories.

I am saying that it would be nice to see people more representative of the traditional owners of our land, rather than people that could be mistaken for being European.

It’s quite possible in Brisbane. The welcome to country at the Gabba in the 2020 final we played is an example.

There are no motives to my original post. I’m incredibly shallow in that regard, in what I say is exactly what I mean.

It’s very simple, almost all the AFL’s welcome to country are performed by very “white“ Aboriginals. I would like to see them performed by people who are more representative of the traditional owners of our lands.

Alright, I can’t reply to every post here.

Two of the performances sounded to me like they were performed by people who struggled with the language. Hollow Knight these are languages that we have had welcome to country in many times before, by different individuals. It made me question the AFL’s choice of performer.


This I take on board.

I wasn’t looking for a stereotype.

Welcome to country doesn’t have to be performed by someone with darker skin.

The contradiction is real.

No digging yourself out of this one. Go get educated and learn from your ignorance.

 

[Jivlain]

What, that I have an issue that two of the welcome to country I watched this weekend, sounded like they were performed by people who didn’t naturally speak the language?

Many Aboriginal languages were genocidally suppressed. Many elders were probably actively prevented and/or punished for any attempt at learning the language when they were children, and in the cases of some languages, everyone who actually grew up with it as a language has since died. But you have people who have a connection to that history and are trying their best to rebuild some lost culture but what they've got to work with is problematic* translations or audio recordings from the 60s or whatever. A commendable thing to do.

* there's a book of Dreaming stories I came across, recorded by an Anglican missionary, plus a few small translation dictionaries and the Lord's prayer translated into a few languages. And the thing about it is, I recognised a bunch of the stories and noticed the way that they had been manipulated to insert a need for a some sort of subsequent sacrificial redemptive saviour into them. I think about that a bunch. Anyway, it's kinda problematic if a bunch of the few sources you've still got to resurrect your culture from are part of a deliberate ploy to destroy that culture.

 

[martinson]

It's actually interesting the variations of different languages spoken by families living in the same community or at least dialects of the same language. There's promotion of languages that have been partially lost in Mossman and surrounding areas and some attempts to revitalise them in Primary schools which as far as I'm aware is ongoing.

 

[Gadzorks]

It's actually interesting the variations of different languages spoken by families living in the same community or at least dialects of the same language. There's promotion of languages that have been partially lost in Mossman and surrounding areas and some attempts to revitalise them in Primary schools which as far as I'm aware is ongoing.

We generalise indigenous as one race? Culture? But the regional differences geographically and culturally are similar to the differences between close countries like Greece, Albania, Macedonia.

The targeted murder wiped out entire cultures.

 

[Dalions]

I wonder if Schools around the Country could incorporate an Indigenous dialogue that is native to the area of the School as a lesson instead of French, German, Japanese or Spanish?
Maybe a class learning the language and the cultures.
We all need to learn more.

 

[rye]

I wonder if Schools around the Country could incorporate an Indigenous dialogue that is native to the area of the School as a lesson instead of French, German, Japanese or Spanish?
Maybe a class learning the language and the cultures.
We all need to learn more.

the compulsory australian history subject i received in high school was centered around the first european explorers to visit australia and the first fleet + colony

we did not touch on indigenous history at all really. either pre colonisation or post colonisation

it could have changed in the 10 years since then, but i felt like that was a pretty big omission in my high school education. at the very least people should know about the stolen generation so they know nuffies like andrew bolt are talking rubbish when they say its fake

 

[Gadzorks]

On a footy note - love this from the pies coach. He's totally in their heads and hearts. They'll do anything for him - it's why they play beyond themselves

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/pies-coach-craig-mcrae-blasts-own-players-over-their-postgame-conduct/news-story/fd3f7f2893b77018780f770cae7d9845

 

[FLVanLandingham]

I wonder if Schools around the Country could incorporate an Indigenous dialogue that is native to the area of the School as a lesson instead of French, German, Japanese or Spanish?
Maybe a class learning the language and the cultures.
We all need to learn more.

when i lived in cairns (kuranda specifically), my elder siblings during primary school did a program where they learned the local dialect there.

but that was a location with a higher emphasis/cultural knowledge etc of indigenous culture.

pretty cool stuff

 

[FeastOrFamine]

the compulsory australian history subject i received in high school was centered around the first european explorers to visit australia and the first fleet + colony

we did not touch on indigenous history at all really. either pre colonisation or post colonisation

it could have changed in the 10 years since then, but i felt like that was a pretty big omission in my high school education. at the very least people should know about the stolen generation so they know nuffies like andrew bolt are talking rubbish when they say its fake

Our HSIE classes from years 8-10 had portions that were entirely devoted to the stolen generation and the impact of colonialism on aboriginal people.

We did a lot of source analysis work on intergenerational trauma and its impacts to this day. We also did do work on indigenous culture early on in high school which was interesting. It's nice to see this topic get the coverage it needs because the blatant ignorance of some in society is quite disheartening, however, everyone has an opportunity to learn and change.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Our HSIE classes from years 8-10 had portions that were entirely devoted to the stolen generation and the impact of colonialism on aboriginal people.

We did a lot of source analysis work on intergenerational trauma and its impacts to this day. We also did do work on indigenous culture early on in high school which was interesting. It's nice to see this topic get the coverage it needs because the blatant ignorance of some in society is quite disheartening, however, everyone has an opportunity to learn and change.

The next version of the history curriculum includes content on indigenous Australia pre-settlement as well which has been a shameful blind spot in the past.

Of course the Murdoch media useful idiots will accuse us of wokeism for having the temerity to acknowledge the oldest living civilisation on Earth.

 

[martinson]

The next version of the history curriculum includes content on indigenous Australia pre-settlement as well which has been a shameful blind spot in the past.

Of course the Murdoch media useful idiots will accuse us of wokeism for having the temerity to acknowledge the oldest living civilisation on Earth.

I don't think confrontation and putting fire to disagreements is the answer though. The understanding and acknowledgement of indigenous culture is pushing ahead in leaps and bounds both within the younger population and corporate Australia. To focus too much on those who don't have an interest or are outright deniers is the wrong strategy. Those comments are just general in nature and not directed at your specific comments Hollow Knight.

It interests me that you are a History teacher. I've got an overdone obsession with particular eras in history . What specific areas do you teach in ? Feel free not to answer if that's a personal matter.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I don't think confrontation and putting fire to disagreements is the answer though. The understanding and acknowledgement of indigenous culture is pushing ahead in leaps and bounds both within the younger population and corporate Australia. To focus too much on those who don't have an interest or are outright deniers is the wrong strategy. Those comments are just general in nature and not directed at your specific comments Hollow Knight.

It interests me that you are a History teacher. I've got an overdone obsession with particular eras in history . What specific areas do you teach in ? Feel free not to answer if that's a personal matter.

I teach year 7-12 so pretty much everything in the ACARA history curriculum except in year 11-12 where I teach exclusively modern history, not ancient.

 

[martinson]

I teach year 7-12 so pretty much everything in the ACARA history curriculum except in year 11-12 where I teach exclusively modern history, not ancient.

I wish I had the interest in history that I have now than when I was at school when my mind was fertile. And only interested in sport.

Fwiiw the WW1 and particularly the WW2 era fascinates me . It's probably sparked by personal issues.

Also taken on board the US civil war.

It teaches us so much to look into the past. Once you start up the rabbit borough is never ending.

I don't read any fiction books any more.

 

[AFLQLD]

The next version of the history curriculum includes content on indigenous Australia pre-settlement as well which has been a shameful blind spot in the past.

Of course the Murdoch media useful idiots will accuse us of wokeism for having the temerity to acknowledge the oldest living civilisation on Earth.

It has been an absolute blind spot for far too long and has led in part to indigenous culture being far less acknowledged and celebrated for its unique, timeless aspects.

While it is important as an Australian educated in the history of our own country, to know about the many injustices, crimes and failings that have occurred since European settlement, it is equally important to know that indigenous culture is, or was, as rich and robust as any other and thrived for millennia.

International visitors I have hosted are rarely intrigued by our history since 1788, it seems somewhat mundane in many ways when they might live in places with over a thousand years of recorded history. They are far more fascinated to learn that a culture that evolved to live on this continent without modern tools and technology not only did so, but did so for tens of thousands of years. Hopefully more Australians will come to appreciate what we have.

 

[royboy2]

An Indigenous friend of mine posts things like this quite often, as she is on the lighter side its something she has to deal with all the time

 

[Nunez]

An Indigenous friend of mine posts things like this quite often, as she is on the lighter side its something she has to deal with all the time


View attachment 1499930

Sorry mate, only tea #1 can do the welcome to country.

 

[Sanchez365]

My only problem with the welcome to country was that it was the same prerecorded version they have been using for years. Could the AFL not afford to get a new video recorded each year?

 

[MSB ROYS]

My only problem with the welcome to country was that it was the same prerecorded version they have been using for years. Could the AFL not afford to get a new video recorded each year?

Should have been done live for finals.

 

[lionraven]

Sorry mate, only tea #1 can do the welcome to country.

Such a weird tangent to go off on. Of all the things to impact on my Gabba viewing experience, the welcome to country would be the least.

I know some people don't like the little song after our team scores but I personally dont mind it as it gives us some individuality and lets the players express themselves. What I don't like is whoever made the moronic decision to start playing music for the opposition goals. Are they stupid? You want to encourage a partisan atmosphere in your home ground. Why would you play anything to encourage away fans (apart from what is necessary as far as tradition goes in terms of team songs)?

 

[KissKiss]

My only problem with the welcome to country was that it was the same prerecorded version they have been using for years. Could the AFL not afford to get a new video recorded each year?

Its a really well done version but I was surprised it was re-used. Just assumed a live one would happen