Injury Fremantle 2023 Injury Thread

[Madas]

The softer bit was in jest alluding to some of their pain thresholds .

These Syndesmosis and knee type injuries that occur at the bottom of packs must surely be exacerbated by the players velocity going into the contest and being forced to ground.

I'd have to go back and watch a whole bunch of footy From the 80's and 90's but my feeling is that because the game wasn't as congested and slightly slower that players were able to hold their feet more .
Dunno , just saying ?
Would be good to hear from a sports doctor specialising in these injuries.

 

[CapitalA]

So is Treacy deliberately not being the focal point? Or is Pearce just better at getting the ball?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably no one was on Pearce because he is no threat

 

[CapitalA]

The softer bit was in jest alluding to some of their pain thresholds .

These Syndesmosis and knee type injuries that occur at the bottom of packs must surely be exacerbated by the players velocity going into the contest and being forced to ground.

I'd have to go back and watch a whole bunch of footy From the 80's and 90's but my feeling is that because the game wasn't as congested and slightly slower that players were able to hold their feet more .
Dunno , just saying ?
Would be good to hear from a sports doctor specialising in these injuries.

My guess would be tackling techniques have come a long way since then and would be the main reason. They really clamp down and pull you to the deck these days, dragging the player downward with a lot of force.

 

[Freeeoo]

General Q re injuries across the AFL this year for the statisticians among us: are injuries, like extreme weather events, increasing in frequency and severity?

The injury lists read like despatches from the Front.

Ours is a peerless game but are the contacts just getting too injurious? Hope my perception is wrong.

I think that an increase in soft tissue injuries especially early in the season was almost inevitable. A condensed pre-season combined with longer game time and less rotations.
The syndesmosis epidemic though is a worrying trend, not sure how that can be addressed.

 

[arsesmart]

I think that an increase in soft tissue injuries especially early in the season was almost inevitable. A condensed pre-season combined with longer game time and less rotations.
The syndesmosis epidemic though is a worrying trend, not sure how that can be addressed.

It'd be interesting to gather the data on how syndesmosis injuries are happening. Tackling technique seems to be key for a few of the ones I've seen/noticed. Cerra's for example, the guy deliberately went to ground to increase the weight of the tackle, which also increased the risk of sudden pressure/weight pushing the lower leg joints into unnatural angles (from memory I think Young's syndesmosis injury was the same).

How you stop this is tricky, without being overly prescriptive of tackles and/or making umpiring more complicated. The most obvious is a rule/interpretation around dangerous tackles and the tackler being required to keep their feet in the tackle wherever possible. A more stringent rule on this would also cut out a lot of the inclination towards sling tackles as a bonus.

 

[Alfonz]

The game has changed dramatically. Scroll through the years on footywire for team rankings in tackles and free kicks. In the 80s and 90s, tackle averages were 20-30 per side. For much of the last decade it is in the 60-70 range (seems down so far this year). Geelong laid 25 tackles in the famed 1989 grand final where they put half the Hawthorn side in hospital.

Free kicks were off the charts in the 80s ... 30-40 per side every game. The umps would just blow the whistle at any opportunity. If a guy had the ball and then somebody laid any semblance of tackle ... instant holding the ball. Simple. Everything was 1 on 1 and in open space. The ball was in the hands of players much less (an extreme example, but Hawthorn had 6 possessions per scoring shot in the 1989 GF!). Players weren't getting smashed in tackles.

 

[Schauermann]

Free kicks were off the charts in the 80s ... 30-40 per side every game. The umps would just blow the whistle at any opportunity. If a guy had the ball and then somebody laid any semblance of tackle ... instant holding the ball.

Would probably be other 500 frees by todays standards. And after a few week no club would be able to field a side anymore because of suspensions...

 

[Madas]

The game has changed dramatically. Scroll through the years on footywire for team rankings in tackles and free kicks. In the 80s and 90s, tackle averages were 20-30 per side. For much of the last decade it is in the 60-70 range (seems down so far this year). Geelong laid 25 tackles in the famed 1989 grand final where they put half the Hawthorn side in hospital.

Free kicks were off the charts in the 80s ... 30-40 per side every game. The umps would just blow the whistle at any opportunity. If a guy had the ball and then somebody laid any semblance of tackle ... instant holding the ball. Simple. Everything was 1 on 1 and in open space. The ball was in the hands of players much less (an extreme example, but Hawthorn had 6 possessions per scoring shot in the 1989 GF!). Players weren't getting smashed in tackles.

Great analysis and thanks for the stats , interesting on the free kick counts .
Really good points raised by all .

So it seems likely from the sound of it that If the AFL considers the amount of injuries to be excessive they may implement new rule changes and tackling techniques that will probably encourage holding the player up whilst trying to dislodge the ball ( forcing incorrect disposal) ?
Going to be a fine balance between keeping the game fierce and watchable and not letting it turn into touch football .

 

[Taylor]

I worry about them bringing in a blind side tackle rule where you are only allowed to tackle a player in the side or front on. No more chase down tackles, far less injuries but it's not like the chase down tackles are resulting in that many injuries now per tackle.

That Walters tackle on O'Brien that was called holding the ball would be a free against Walters.

That's not football.

Tacklers are worried about being penalised for spinning the player and taking them to ground and players are trying to lure contact to the back by falling forwards - so the result is players exposing their lower body as the tackler is trying to get to ground before the ball carrier does to avoid the in the back call.

 

[ignoramus]

It'd be interesting to gather the data on how syndesmosis injuries are happening.

AFL do an annual injury survey. Probably be another couple of months before the 2020 survey/report comes out. Finding it challenging tracking down old reports online, but the 2018 report has some incidence data for 2017 and 2018. Too scant to be enlightening.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/2018-AFL-Injury-Report.pdf

Thing is, I'd never heard of it until a game last year when a commentator confidently declared that Sturt's (maybe it was Young's) ankle injury was probably a syndesmosis injury. Can't help but feel that part of the perceived increase lies in the increased use of the term itself. Where once it would've been called an ankle injury (by non-medical experts) now it's identified specifically as syndesmosis, a la Freo Big Fella's post:

View attachment 1107522

Having said that, an AFLPA report suggests that there was a spike in syndesmosis injuries in 2020:

What is syndesmosis?

It's an injury that seems to have spiked in 2020. But what is syndesmosis and why has it become so prevalent? aflplayers.com.au has done a deep investigation into the high ankle sprain and what it…

www.aflplayers.com.au

 

[Nodgey]

My guess would be tackling techniques have come a long way since then and would be the main reason. They really clamp down and pull you to the deck these days, dragging the player downward with a lot of force.

And directly in the back a lot of the time. I guess it's hard to umpire these days as the ball-carrier elects to fall forward in the hope of a free, but it is rarely if ever paid. I'd argue that cleaning up this aspect of the game, punishing in the back infractions, should lead to better (cleaner?) tackling with less chance to cause injury.

I might need to re-watch but I thought Cerra's injury was brought about because the tackler pinned Cerra's ankle while taking him forward (i.e. in the back) into the ground.

 

[Nodgey]

Tacklers are worried about being penalised for spinning the player and taking them to ground and players are trying to lure contact to the back by falling forwards - so the result is players exposing their lower body as the tackler is trying to get to ground before the ball carrier does to avoid the in the back call.

This is the point I'm trying to make. I don't care too much if the ball carrier puts a bit of mayo on it to get the free. It's like Selwood lifting the shoulder up to create high contact. You simply MUST protect and reward the ball carrier. Players will soon learn.

Pay the in-the-back frees. It will also speed up and open up the game too because there's one less ball-up.

 

[Ogrebait]

Thing is, I'd never heard of it until a game last year when a commentator confidently declared that Sturt's (maybe it was Young's) ankle injury was probably a syndesmosis injury.

The first I recall it being used in footballing parlance was when Mundy had one in Harvey's last year as coach.

 

[arsesmart]

AFL do an annual injury survey. Probably be another couple of months before the 2020 survey/report comes out. Finding it challenging tracking down old reports online, but the 2018 report has some incidence data for 2017 and 2018. Too scant to be enlightening.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/2018-AFL-Injury-Report.pdf

Thing is, I'd never heard of it until a game last year when a commentator confidently declared that Sturt's (maybe it was Young's) ankle injury was probably a syndesmosis injury. Can't help but feel that part of the perceived increase lies in the increased use of the term itself. Where once it would've been called an ankle injury (by non-medical experts) now it's identified specifically as syndesmosis, a la Freo Big Fella's post:



Having said that, an AFLPA report suggests that there was a spike in syndesmosis injuries in 2020:

What is syndesmosis?

It's an injury that seems to have spiked in 2020. But what is syndesmosis and why has it become so prevalent? aflplayers.com.au has done a deep investigation into the high ankle sprain and what it…

www.aflplayers.com.au

Yeah the increase in reporting (and how it's reported) could be due to an increase in understanding or even a change in categorisation as well as an actual increase and/or a combination of all.

I guess I wouldn't mind seeing a forensic examination of the cause for each incident given the seriousness of the impact on players and teams seasons.

AFL players are on average pretty hopeless with their tackling techniques and going to the ground is one way to bring an opponent down without increasing your technical competence or core strength. The resulting tangle and high pressure forces on the leg joints could be a prime cause. There's no valid reason to keep that tackling technique in the game really if it is unduly increasing the risk of a serious injury, a la the sling tackle.

 

[Scham]

This is the point I'm trying to make. I don't care too much if the ball carrier puts a bit of mayo on it to get the free. It's like Selwood lifting the shoulder up to create high contact. You simply MUST protect and reward the ball carrier. Players will soon learn.

Pay the in-the-back frees. It will also speed up and open up the game too because there's one less ball-up.

You mean like adjudicate to the rule? c'mon mate, this is the AFL we're talking about.

 

[arsesmart]

The game has changed dramatically. Scroll through the years on footywire for team rankings in tackles and free kicks. In the 80s and 90s, tackle averages were 20-30 per side. For much of the last decade it is in the 60-70 range (seems down so far this year). Geelong laid 25 tackles in the famed 1989 grand final where they put half the Hawthorn side in hospital.

Free kicks were off the charts in the 80s ... 30-40 per side every game. The umps would just blow the whistle at any opportunity. If a guy had the ball and then somebody laid any semblance of tackle ... instant holding the ball. Simple. Everything was 1 on 1 and in open space. The ball was in the hands of players much less (an extreme example, but Hawthorn had 6 possessions per scoring shot in the 1989 GF!). Players weren't getting smashed in tackles.

I watched that 89 GF not so long ago and was astounded by what they let go and how little the game seemed to be regulated by the umps. It's worth a watch just to see almost a totally different culture in umpiring.

 

[kingswood71]

"Epidemiologic data suggest that syndesmotic ankle sprains account for 11% to 17% of the ankle sprains in athletic populations.Most of these injuries occur in collision sports such as American football, wrestling, ice hockey, rugby, and lacrosse. Fifty to seventy-five percent of the ankle sprains in some collision sports are classified as syndesmotic ankle injuries"

Rehabilitation of Syndesmotic (High) Ankle Sprains

High ankle sprains are common in athletes who play contact sports. Most high ankle sprains are treated nonsurgically with a rehabilitation program.All years of PUBMED, Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, CINAHL PLUS, SPORTDiscuss, Google Scholar, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Quite common then. I would suspect that more MRI use, probably equates to more diagnosis. In the 1980's, we would have just said "ankle sprain"..

 

[Madas]

"Epidemiologic data suggest that syndesmotic ankle sprains account for 11% to 17% of the ankle sprains in athletic populations.Most of these injuries occur in collision sports such as American football, wrestling, ice hockey, rugby, and lacrosse. Fifty to seventy-five percent of the ankle sprains in some collision sports are classified as syndesmotic ankle injuries"

Rehabilitation of Syndesmotic (High) Ankle Sprains

High ankle sprains are common in athletes who play contact sports. Most high ankle sprains are treated nonsurgically with a rehabilitation program.All years of PUBMED, Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, CINAHL PLUS, SPORTDiscuss, Google Scholar, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Quite common then. I would suspect that more MRI use, probably equates to more diagnosis. In the 1980's, we would have just said "ankle sprain"..

Yes was wondering if it was just a fancy word for ankle sprain.
Sounds so serious, never really heard of it till Hayden Young , thought it was terminal

 

[mattis117]

Not Freo, but looks like McGovern just did his groin, Eagles going to be vulnerable next week.

 

[Taylor]

Nah Jeremey has the same aura as Darcy in that they get injured and go off, season done, and come back like nothing happened shortly after

 

[mattis117]

Nah Jeremey has the same aura as Darcy in that they get injured and go off, season done, and come back like nothing happened shortly after

Just got subbed and was swearing as he walked into the rooms, I reckon he'll be out.

 

[Taylor]

Just got subbed and was swearing as he walked into the rooms, I reckon he'll be out.

I won't take it as a McGiven until the team sheet is listed.

And we don't want any bad karma for our game to follow

 

[wakojako]

I won't take it as a McGiven until the team sheet is listed.

And we don't want any bad karma for our game to follow

Which is what we are going to get with the members on this board giving shit to eagles when they visit us.

 

[ozzie69]

Not Freo, but looks like McGovern just did his groin, Eagles going to be vulnerable next week.

Now wait for all the bleating about all the injuries. Imagine what it would be like if we ever had a few injuries.

On SM-T825Y using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Joose]

Is this the day that we find out that Brennan's mild ankle sprain has transformed into a 6 week syndesmosis layoff?

Sorry, I have grown cynical of late.