So you joined the forum to tell me I'm wrong and then won't mount a rational argument!?
What you are describing is decision making which falls firmly in the land of execution!
Fremantle & Ross Lyon
- Thread starter donkeypunchd
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So you joined the forum to tell me I'm wrong and then won't mount a rational argument!?
What you are describing is decision making which falls firmly in the land of execution!
What, a 33% win ratio?
smasha
It's Time!
Team down and out,changes game plan completely,in a week mind you and beats one of the flag favs,I thought he coached well,didn't you?
I thought the dogs took them really lightly.
Free were on - I didn't see a huge deviation from what they've tried the previous two weeks - just a much better effort across the field.
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We have only beaten the Bulldogs since round 13, 2016. If you take those two wins out, we haven't won since June, 2016. That's a long time to have not beaten any of the other 16 teams.
Yes, beating the dogs was massive and we showed a lot - I just hope we can keep that sort of intensity (and effectiveness inside 50) up for the rest of the year.
If you look at the stats for last night it's dead even - the only stats of any real difference were hitouts (in our favour) and tackles inside 50 (in our favour). It was pretty 50/50 for the rest (even interchanges)
Yes, beating the dogs was massive and we showed a lot - I just hope we can keep that sort of intensity (and effectiveness inside 50) up for the rest of the year.
If you look at the stats for last night it's dead even - the only stats of any real difference were hitouts (in our favour) and tackles inside 50 (in our favour). It was pretty 50/50 for the rest (even interchanges)
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I'm happy obviously with the win but I'm more stoked with the way we played and the application for 4 qtrs, the boys really looked like they enjoyed that and were playing for Ross Lyon.
It's an amazing turnaround from the utter shite they dished up the last 2 weeks. We can compete with anyone playing like that.
It's an amazing turnaround from the utter shite they dished up the last 2 weeks. We can compete with anyone playing like that.
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I would say that's just a continuation of the St Kildas policy of recycling players. Just got to look at the 5 years before Ross Lyon was coach and see the names Birss, Watts, Rix, Fiora, Ackland, McGough, Gram, Guerra, Callaghan, Brooks, Penny, Knobel, Black, Powell.
Only difference is that a lot of these players in the Thomas era cost you early draft picks so there was nothing coming through when Lyon got there.
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Forward Press
Hall of Famer
It was only idiots anyway that write off teams after one or two games.
It was almost universal opinion that Lyon should play the youth, he did and it paid off.
StCicatriz
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i dont necessarily agree with that. what early picks did we trade out under thomas? from memory the majority of those were traded for players or later pick
StCicatriz
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here are the trades and draft selections under thomas:
2001
Black traded for Pick 17
Knobel traded for Pick 45
Drafted Luke Ball Pick 2
Drafted Xavier Clarke Pick 5
Drafted Nick Dal Santo Pick 13
Drafted Matt McGuire Pick 21
Drafted Leigh Montagna Pick 37
Drafted Josh Houlihan Pick 49
given how hard they were hitting the draft that year i can understand why giving up pick 17 for black was a no brainer, especially given how many younger players they had coming through
2002
Brooks traded for Pick 6 and 31 (acquired from trading out everitt)
Luke Penny for Pick 17
Drafted Goddard Pick 1
Drafted Matt Ferguson Pick 22
Drafted Leigh Fisher Pick 46
given how many kids came in the draft before and having pick 1, punting on brooks was probably not a bad idea using the picks acquired from everitt. luke penny as a ready made KPD given the younger options coming through probably not a bad idea either
2003
Gram traded for Pick 23
Guerra traded for Pick 39
Raph Clarke drafted Pick 8
Sam Fisher drafted Pick 55
Craig Callahan drafted Pick 65
seriously average draft. players taken around picks 23 and 39 are very very average, which is putting it nicely
2004
Fiora traded for Black
McQualter drafted Pick 17
Cain Ackland drafted Pick 33
Mark Mcgough drafted Pick 49
James Gwilt drafted Pick 63
all a drafting problem, not so much a trading problem, given no picks were given up
2005
Watts traded for Pick 17 (basically **** all at this pick anyways)
Sam Fisher drafted Pick 33
Michael Rix drafted Pick 49
Phillip drafted Pick 63
see the 2003 comment, there really was nothing decent available at pick 17. massively meh draft
i think the problem we had with the draft and trades occurred post thomas
2001
Black traded for Pick 17
Knobel traded for Pick 45
Drafted Luke Ball Pick 2
Drafted Xavier Clarke Pick 5
Drafted Nick Dal Santo Pick 13
Drafted Matt McGuire Pick 21
Drafted Leigh Montagna Pick 37
Drafted Josh Houlihan Pick 49
given how hard they were hitting the draft that year i can understand why giving up pick 17 for black was a no brainer, especially given how many younger players they had coming through
2002
Brooks traded for Pick 6 and 31 (acquired from trading out everitt)
Luke Penny for Pick 17
Drafted Goddard Pick 1
Drafted Matt Ferguson Pick 22
Drafted Leigh Fisher Pick 46
given how many kids came in the draft before and having pick 1, punting on brooks was probably not a bad idea using the picks acquired from everitt. luke penny as a ready made KPD given the younger options coming through probably not a bad idea either
2003
Gram traded for Pick 23
Guerra traded for Pick 39
Raph Clarke drafted Pick 8
Sam Fisher drafted Pick 55
Craig Callahan drafted Pick 65
seriously average draft. players taken around picks 23 and 39 are very very average, which is putting it nicely
2004
Fiora traded for Black
McQualter drafted Pick 17
Cain Ackland drafted Pick 33
Mark Mcgough drafted Pick 49
James Gwilt drafted Pick 63
all a drafting problem, not so much a trading problem, given no picks were given up
2005
Watts traded for Pick 17 (basically **** all at this pick anyways)
Sam Fisher drafted Pick 33
Michael Rix drafted Pick 49
Phillip drafted Pick 63
see the 2003 comment, there really was nothing decent available at pick 17. massively meh draft
i think the problem we had with the draft and trades occurred post thomas
StCicatriz
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Man what could have been if Luke Penny and Aaron Hamill had stayed healthy
xavier too, he looked a star wingman until his body just broke
How does this relate to Lyon and Freo ???
FFS. What was changed about the gameplan?
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Exactly - gameplan was the same. We just didn't concede 8-12 goals from turnovers like we did v Geelong and port. We just cleaned up our disposal out of defence and made more of the opportunities in the forward line
StCicatriz
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it doesnt i am responding to the claims that what happened under ross at st kilda was a continuation of what was happening under thomas at st kilda
And applied ourselves like we were desperate to win..
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I'm not and hardly anyone else would suggest that Clarkson in particular is past his use by date. But he is 0-3 for wins.
These 3 teams slogged hard for a shot at GF in the last few years, the lists are a little worse as a consequence for the penalty of success - years of worse draft picks as a consequence. The wheel will turn, lower ladder positions will rejuvenate lists, losing old stars frees up money for trading in younger stars etc.
I'm really happy that we burst a kapoopla valve to win against the bulldogs. Freo threw everything at it - easy when you have nothing to lose, the dogs weren't going to risk injury/suspension and messing too much with game plans for the sake of a phyric victory. But we aren't going to be pulling wins like this out of the hat against the tops teams for the rest of the year. It's taken time for players to gel due to all the lost game time with injury last year and some preseason surgeries - and crikey, our old hands (predominantly the midfield) it seems finally clicked together and turned it on in the 4th quarter. We'll win a few, lose a few as I expect both the Hawks and Swans to do.
Hawthorn 0-0-0
Fremantle 0-0-1
I'm not and hardly anyone else would suggest that Clarkson in particular is past his use by date. But he is 0-3 for wins.
These 3 teams slogged hard for a shot at GF in the last few years, the lists are a little worse as a consequence for the penalty of success - years of worse draft picks as a consequence. The wheel will turn, lower ladder positions will rejuvenate lists, losing old stars frees up money for trading in younger stars etc.
I'm really happy that we burst a kapoopla valve to win against the bulldogs. Freo threw everything at it - easy when you have nothing to lose, the dogs weren't going to risk injury/suspension and messing too much with game plans for the sake of a phyric victory. But we aren't going to be pulling wins like this out of the hat against the tops teams for the rest of the year. It's taken time for players to gel due to all the lost game time with injury last year and some preseason surgeries - and crikey, our old hands (predominantly the midfield) it seems finally clicked together and turned it on in the 4th quarter. We'll win a few, lose a few as I expect both the Hawks and Swans to do.
Kunna17
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This is very true, and appears to be missed by 99% of people.
Some changes were made - forwards were a little deeper, so we had options ahead, but in almost the same structure, just stretched a bit further.
We went smaller and had more pace, intensity and spirit from the younger players, we also used the ball much better out of defense.
We have tried to take the game on the last few weeks, it's just not come off for us - which was to be expected for a little while given the personell changes since last year and the likely adjustments in our game-plan. We just couldn't have expected it to be AS BAD as it was, or AS GOOD as it was on saturday (Im under no illusions, were not top quality, but compared to last year and rounds 1&2, we were incredible.)
The gameplan has not magically changed between rounds 2 & 3, it was just far better executed and the selected squad provided the required run, skill and intensity that didn't exist previously.
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Sod has nailed it. Gameplan didn't change, the players did. Again, I will say it before and I will say it again. Look at round 1. Freo kicked 10.13.73 and had 10 different goal kickers. Cam McCarthy kicked 1 goal and 5 points. He should of got 4-5 goals and freo could of ended up with 14-15 goals which would be enough to win some games this round.
Freo kicked 13.11.89 vs the dogs and won. The big difference was Bulldogs missed some set shots in the 3rd quarter and Dockers didn't turn the ball over as much or s badly as the other 2 games.
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Funny thing Freo traded picks 11, 27 and 43 for Josh Carr in 2004. Looking back in the 2004 draft. Easily one of the weakest along with 2012.
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