Roast Geelong can't develop young players

[STPer18]

And just in the interest of first-year only players, 2023 pick 63 Lawson Humphries outpolled the following top 10 draft picks:

#3 Jed Walter (GCS)
#4 Zane Duursma (NM)
#5 Nick Watson (HAW)
#6 Ryley Sanders (WB)
#7 Caleb Windsor (MEL)
#8 Daniel Curtin (ADE)
#9 Ethan Reid (GCS)
#10 Nate Caddy (ESS)

 

[Wojcinski]

Just trying to highlight that players close to 22yo in their 3’rd season should not be eligible for the rising star award. As I said congrats to Dempsey on a good year good player but the award is a joke ….. Darcy Wilson’s year much more impressive considering he was 18yo up until round 23!

the criteria is there and Dempsey was the best player that fits the criteria, not sure why you're so emotional, the criteria hasn't changed in 30+ years

 

[CatToTheFuture]

And just in the interest of first-year only players, 2023 pick 63 Lawson Humphries outpolled the following top 10 draft picks:

#3 Jed Walter (GCS)
#4 Zane Duursma (NM)
#5 Nick Watson (HAW)
#6 Ryley Sanders (WB)
#7 Caleb Windsor (MEL)
#8 Daniel Curtin (ADE)
#9 Ethan Reid (GCS)
#10 Nate Caddy (ESS)

Stop it!

 

[Wojcinski]

It's been 11 years since a 3rd year player won it. If it's an advantage then why doesn't it ever happen?

funnily enough the only two Hawthorn players to win an RS (Nick Holland and Sam Mitchell) were both 21 when they won as well

 

[CatToTheFuture]

And just in the interest of first-year only players, 2023 pick 63 Lawson Humphries outpolled the following top 10 draft picks:

#3 Jed Walter (GCS)
#4 Zane Duursma (NM)
#5 Nick Watson (HAW)
#6 Ryley Sanders (WB)
#7 Caleb Windsor (MEL)
#8 Daniel Curtin (ADE)
#9 Ethan Reid (GCS)
#10 Nate Caddy (ESS)

Academy players shouldn't count because the club has the advantage of putting years of development into then before they get into the system....

... oh wait, says here he's from the West Coast academy ....

 

[matey]

the criteria is there and Dempsey was the best player that fits the criteria, not sure why you're so emotional, the criteria hasn't changed in 30+ years

Don’t people understand English …… that’s my point. He turns 22 soon and in his 3rd season!

 

[matey]

funnily enough the only two Hawthorn players to win an RS (Nick Holland and Sam Mitchell) were both 21 when they won as well

Yeah agree they shouldn’t be eligible so what’s your point?

 

[Wojcinski]

Yeah agree they shouldn’t be eligible so what’s your point?

I'm assuming you sent a tear filled letter to Wayne Jackson asking him to rescind the awards as well?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Yeah agree they shouldn’t be eligible so what’s your point?

There's already a best first year player award. Why are you making a second one?

 

[matey]

There's already a best first year player award. Why are you making a second one?

There’s your rising star …… but it’s gone to Dempsey

 

[CatToTheFuture]

There’s your rising star …… but it’s gone to Dempsey

Are you confused as to which award you're discussing? Because best first year player was Harley Reid.

 

[Wojcinski]

There’s your rising star …… but it’s gone to Dempsey

oh dear you don't even know what award you're talking about do you? outraged purely for the sake of it

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah agree they shouldn’t be eligible so what’s your point?

Why don’t you think they should be eligible?

I mean I get that you see a discrepancy between an 18 year old and a 21 year old. I’m not missing the age gap but I would assume that when they brought the criteria and the award into existence there were several reasons for it:

1. It’s to acknowledge young players. Not first year players. Not 18 year olds. But young players.

2. The idea of expanding the criteria to cover age groups in a completion that has a ranking-based draft would, I assume, be built around one major concept: that an 18-19 year old drafted alongside a player of equal ability and equal age, to a powerful team, is not going to get nearly as many chances to play in his first 1-2 years as the other player who gets drafted to a struggling team.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Congrats to Dempsey he’s had a good year but 3rd season and 21yo (will be 22 in Jan!) ……. if he was a wine the maturing process has well and truely started!

Surely with Geelong's inability to develop young players being on our list an extra 2 years is actually a disadvantage?

 

[CHAWKTS]

Don’t people understand English …… that’s my point. He turns 22 soon and in his 3rd season!

I think people clearly understand - they just have a different view. And that is ok.

I am not here to defend the AFL on the rising star criteria. But I can’t Believe all the hysteria around it being.

Rising star is not a “rookie of the year” award - we have one of those called “Best first year player”

Rising star is deliberately (not accidentally) trying to capture a wider group of players. Still young (need to be 21 under 31 Dec) but accepting that not everybody comes into first year the same or some have injuries or play in good teams and don’t get a real crack. Tall players (like Luke Jackson who only played 9 games first year and one it second year - or Darcy who might have one it this year if not suspended) just aren’t ready like a MF coming in is. So they don’t win best first year usually (if ever) but can win rising star.

People like Ollie came in having not played more than 6 games in 5 years. And in first 2 years of AFL played 3 full games (the other 4 were sub) of which two in first year were well before he was ready and the third was a dead rubber. So the rising star criteria makes sense if you want to give people from a different path a chance against top 10 draft picks who have been in state teams/academies/player development since they were 15.

I don’t really buy that Ollie was “way ahead” of Wardlaw or Wilson because he had played 2 years of VFL - I think that was just catch up for him. And certainly he is still way behind in terms of development of Harley!

I have sympathy for the fact that we should celebrate the best first year player as much as we do rising star but I do think the awards are trying to do something different. The best first year player is nearly always won by a top 5 draft pick from the year before as by definition they come into the system way ahead. The rising star frankly ends up being mostly the same (9 of the last 10 have been top 10 draft picks but some 2nd year due to injury first year) but allows for a broader pool of players to be assessed.

We should just be excited as fans that all of those players nominated are going to be fantastic long term players for their teams and entertain us for many years to come. They will all get recognised during their careers for sure.

For Ollie it is great for him and I don’t see any real problem in the criteria personally

 

[Mr Meow]

Just trying to highlight that players close to 22yo in their 3’rd season should not be eligible for the rising star award. As I said congrats to Dempsey on a good year good player but the award is a joke ….. Darcy Wilson’s year much more impressive considering he was 18yo up until round 23!

Close to 22yo, hmmm....Ollie was 21 years and 2 months old when he received his RS nomination/broke out. Fiddling over whether he is 20% closer to 22 than 21 at season's end is fairly desperate stuff.

Not all development processes are linear/conventional.

Dempsey spent years 1 and 2 in the VFL to bridge what he missed out on as far as junior football. Prepare to roll your eyes but he was a junior basketballer. His body now is about as mature as your average 18-19yo footballer, with about as many games played at the top level.

Did he fit the bill as a young, raw player with next to no AFL experience, who surprisingly became a...rising star? Yes. Let's not pretend this is the same as if Sam Darcy or Harley Reid had gotten side tracked by injuries and then as 21yo monsters dominated relative to skinny 18yo prospects.

 

[Mr Meow]

Surely with Geelong's inability to develop young players being on our list an extra 2 years is actually a disadvantage?

Well we certainly can't say Geelong developed Dempsey. He is mature age and ready-made. Likely from his elite basketball coaching team in his teens.

Don't even get me started on Humphries. I'm sure I read that he is 28 and we poached him from West Coast.

Holmes is only decent because his mum Lee taught him how to run well.

 

[Mr Meow]

And just in the interest of first-year only players, 2023 pick 63 Lawson Humphries outpolled the following top 10 draft picks:

#3 Jed Walter (GCS)
#4 Zane Duursma (NM)
#5 Nick Watson (HAW)
#6 Ryley Sanders (WB)
#7 Caleb Windsor (MEL)
#8 Daniel Curtin (ADE)
#9 Ethan Reid (GCS)
#10 Nate Caddy (ESS)

I'll admit I didn't think a Duncan replacement would just land in our lap from pick #548.

 

[FootyLad0]

funnily enough the only two Hawthorn players to win an RS (Nick Holland and Sam Mitchell) were both 21 when they won as well

****ing hell so old! They must have retired the next year right?

 

[FootyLad0]

you're trying to brag about a 21 year old outpolling a bunch of 18 year olds in some award? yikes.

but hey clearly michael barlow must've been destined to become the greatest player ever

Someone missed the point….its not about being 18 years old and being a top pick in the draft or where anyone is taken or at what age….thats what their point was. Humphries fell to the backend of the Draft when no one else was going to give him a shot.

Once again “Geelong can't develop young talent” (read what thread you’re in) and yet Stephen freaking Wells and Andrew Mackie turned a Pick 63 player who didn’t think he’d even get drafted at all (he told his mum to not even watch out of embarrassment) into a starting half back on a top 4 side. How many kids have gone that late in a draft and got a Rising Star nom let alone as finish as high as he did?

I mean for Christ sake Dempsey has only played high level footy for what? 4 years TOTAL in his entire life? He was a basketball player first. Now Rising Star after being a ROOKIE DRAFT PLAYER.

It shows that development and investment in players matter.
You can only coast on talent for soo long (look at all the top 10 picks who flame out or go nowhere)

Good coaching and development allows guys to stay in the League longer than the average player.

What situation you get drafted into matters.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

that post was clearly attempting to brag and one-up those other players up to three years younger. pretty pathetic.
nobody would take lawson humphries over jed walter in a million years

No one is taking Humphries over any of those players he listed

 

[Wojcinski]

No one is taking Humphries over any of those players he listed

I would, he's better than them all

 

[GuyIncognito]

No one is taking Humphries over any of those players he listed

Perhaps not now, but in a few years time…

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

I would, he's better than them all

 

[STPer18]

you're trying to brag about a 21 year old outpolling a bunch of 18 year olds in some award? yikes.

but hey clearly michael barlow must've been destined to become the greatest player ever

But...but...but!

Another WA talent left to rot over there before being rescued and placed in Geelong's elite development program.