Analysis Geelong Cats are preliminary finals chokers: Some hard truthes.

[iameviljez]

This.

The human capacity to grossly over think things is truly remarkable.

This season we lost away from home to Adelaide (twice), Richmond, Essendon, West Coast, Collingwood and Gold Coast. We drew away to GWS and were comfirtably beaten at home by Sydney.

Other than the semi final where we seemed to catch Sydney at their absolute worst, we simply haven't played good footy away from home all year. Our best non-KP wins were probably belting a woeful Hawthorn side and a good comeback against a very flaky Saints team.

We weren't a good side who choked in a prelim. We were an average side whose tenacity in close games allowed us to finish 2nd despite being a long way from a genuine contender.

We literally won 2 games only when an opponent missed on the siren and had 2 wins and a draw secured with pretty much the last kick of the game. We also got over Melbourne due to their total ineptitude in front of goal. Thats 22 points we were very fortunate to have. If GHS missed and Walters and Smith converted we would have finished 7th which wouldn't have been an unfair result

Ding ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[Partridge]

you raise a great point

joel is very inspirational on the field but not sure how he would go off the field, would he have the leadership qualities like a tom harley?

I'd say overwhelmingly no.

 

[Warhorse]

Scarlett is already at the club so no that wont help. Our aggression wasnt the problem last night in any case.

Im referring to a player of his type. Someone who hates losing, who wont take a back step. Could you imagine the crows staring down the 2007 or 2009 team. Would scarlett let our players get pushed around and bullied by a flog like tex.

You might think aggression was not a problem but i disagree. We looked scared

 

[dangerwood]

he hit the nail on the head didnt he

Well it's just reality. Adelaide were convincing with their wins most weeks.

We were looking quite vulnerable not too long ago. Just beat Hawks, lost to crows and were out of it from the start, beat Blues, lost to Sydney and were out of it from the start. Then finished the year with 3 solidish victories, 2 at home. The finish to the year got me a bit enthused, sucked in even. Then reality struck again with Richmond, then enthused by Sydney, then reality struck again with crows last night.

Reads like the perfomance of an average side for mine.

Adelaide were pretty convincing most weeks across the year. We had a couple of convincing wins.

 

[Warhorse]

They were gone at the National anthem. I knew right there and then Adelaide would jump us and BINGO! What were they thinking ? Psyched out before the ball was bounced, why didn't Scott instruct his team to line up opposite their direct opponent with all hands on hips staring them back down? Throw in a few verbals while they were at it. As soon as the anthem stopped i would've asked every player to run at them for a few steps then veer off. As the camera panned around they looked like they were scared to face the Crows! Some players were looking around, some were mumbling the words, some just looked down right afraid! The Crows won the game before it started. Poor preparation IMO.
If you look at boxing and in particular Duran V Leonard 1, Duran stares Leonard down during the anthem and ring instructions, he's totally focused on him, he never stops talking, he gets in his space and verbalises throughout. Leonard is looking down, he doesn't make eye contact, he thinks Duran is a madman, "what the hell am i doing here"? Leonard was dead set lucky to make it out of round 2 and he lost the fight. Leonard was a prohibitive favourite going into the first fight!
Why do Geelong start games so badly? I really thought this time it wouldn't happen...but

Yep. Knew we were going to get flogged as soon as i saw this.

To make matters worse we knew they were going to do it

 

[dangerwood]

Well it's just reality. Adelaide were convincing with their wins most weeks.

We were looking quite vulnerable not too long ago. Just beat Hawks, lost to crows and were out of it from the start, beat Blues, lost to Sydney and were out of it from the start. Then finished the year with 3 solidish victories, 2 at home. The finish to the year got me a bit enthused, sucked in even. Then reality struck again with Richmond, then enthused by Sydney, then reality struck again with crows last night.

Reads like the perfomance of an average side for mine.

Adelaide were pretty convincing most weeks across the year. We had a couple of convincing wins.

And the start of the year was similar. A lot of shakey victories where we were ordinary most of the game.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Same guy.

Oh dear

 

[romeohwho]

They were gone at the National anthem. I knew right there and then Adelaide would jump us and BINGO! What were they thinking ? Psyched out before the ball was bounced, why didn't Scott instruct his team to line up opposite their direct opponent with all hands on hips staring them back down? Throw in a few verbals while they were at it. As soon as the anthem stopped i would've asked every player to run at them for a few steps then veer off. As the camera panned around they looked like they were scared to face the Crows! Some players were looking around, some were mumbling the words, some just looked down right afraid! The Crows won the game before it started. Poor preparation IMO.
If you look at boxing and in particular Duran V Leonard 1, Duran stares Leonard down during the anthem and ring instructions, he's totally focused on him, he never stops talking, he gets in his space and verbalises throughout. Leonard is looking down, he doesn't make eye contact, he thinks Duran is a madman, "what the hell am i doing here"? Leonard was dead set lucky to make it out of round 2 and he lost the fight. Leonard was a prohibitive favourite going into the first fight!
Why do Geelong start games so badly? I really thought this time it wouldn't happen...but

If you get done because of your national anthem stance you are not good enough that's all. The 2007 team-it would not have mattered how or where they were standing or looking. This stuff is peripheral and not of consequence when you are a very good side. We aren't and it had no impact on the game.

 

[Boxhead_31]

A coaching staff's responsibility is to train up the players from day 1 of Pre Season training so their skill execution; game awareness (zone positioning and positioning on the ground) and decision making skills can stand up in the September heat. The basics have to be excuted perfectly during the home and away season; tested during the big match day games and then transferred to September. If you look at how the Crows' executed their decision making skills and skill disposal, it was perfect. Sharp, precise and kicks were perfectly weighted to position. At the same time, the Crows harassed and defended perfectly.

We have continually failed in finals since the 2011 Grand Final. Winning 4 finals out of 11 final matches since the 2011 Grand Final is disgusting. We have recruited for the now and any top AFL coach would have the people skills and management skills to effectively communicate a game plan where all players have bought into the coach's methods and processes. Sooner or later, the window is closed and in the history of the Geelong Football Club, the period of 2012 to 2020 will be seen a period of lost opportunity or Preliminary Final chokers. We have recruited the now and we have failed. Great sides of yester years (North Melbourne, Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon and Lions recruited for the now and they seized their chances).

No side in the history of the AFL/VFL has recruited for the now and failed to win a premiership. That is the cold hard fact. When a side has the players to win a flag, they seize the moment. We have failed to seize the moment.

In relation to people's comments on the ruck coach, Brad Ottens has a full time business as a cabinet maker/furniture maker in Geelong.

Brendan McCartney should return to the Cats. He resides at the Geelong Grammar residences. He is the perfect fit to train up the 0 to 100 gamers to allow them to compliment our superstars. But, Brian Cook's stubborn pride in not hiring him or Bomber Thompson stands in the way.

Chris Scott has failed to train up the players in the basics of football so their skills can be executed perfectly in the September cauldron. That is the cold hard fact. The basics of football in 2017 are game awareness and decision making.

How did North Melbourne go when recruiting for the now over the past 5 years?

 

[Whit3y]

If you get done because of your national anthem stance you are not good enough that's all. The 2007 team-it would not have mattered how or where they were standing or looking. This stuff is peripheral and not of consequence when you are a very good side. We aren't and it had no impact on the game.

i think i read in the mission that half the team in the 07 grand final were "checking out" nat bassingthwaighte singing the anthem

 

[Nickoo]

A lot of Dogs fans acknowledge he's the best at identifying and helping talent grow however they hate his guts because they thought of him as an awful person who treated some of their players like garbage

They hated him because he delivered hard messages. He tactically wasn't so good so that was their excuse to get rid of him. He was shabbily treated by the Dogs and there is systemic cultural issues there as there was at the Cattery until 1999. Slowly they cleaned that up. But now I feel we have gone back a bit. Danger is fabulous obviously but no one wins finals relying on one or three great players like the Cats were in the '90's. I think Danger should be Captain next year so Joel can focus on his game. Sounds like Mack will be back as a development coach next year maybe.




Go Cats!!!!!

 

[Nickoo]

Agree media is obsessed with Danger-he's a great interview but move on, and time for Scott to get off 360-he's been good but enough already.

Coaches in the media is a recipe for disaster;
1. Plough when at the dogs
2. Brad Scott early on at North
3. Chris Scott now.

Yep get him off and get Paddy to cut down for a year.

Turning point preseason.


Go Cats!!!!!

 

[romeohwho]

Coaches in the media is a recipe for disaster;
1. Plough when at the dogs
2. Brad Scott early on at North
3. Chris Scott now.

Yep get him off and get Paddy to cut down for a year.

Turning point preseason.


Go Cats!!!!!

Yep it's heads down,bums up time!

 

[afl genius]

He's spot on, the guys I was watching the game with, we all said the same thing, Geelong play selfish footy.
We don't block for each other. We don't shepherd. We give bullshit handballs to blokes under more pressure because we don't want to take on the attention.
We give balls to players under pressure and sag off wanting an easy handball back instead of providing a block to give them space instead, we draw our opponents to marking contests instead of stopping their run and ensuring a 1 on 1.
I call it Supercoach footy, it's all about me me me and how I can look good on the stats sheet and NOT what's best for the team and what will win the game.
Menzels run and shot from 80m out when he had atleast 2 completely free players 25m out from goal sums it up perfectly. He thought "oh ho! Millionaire time!!" instead of giving off and ensuring a better shot at goal.
Handballs backwards to blokes not expecting it when you have a setshot 50m out.
We play soft, selfish downhill skiing footy.

Exactly and throughout the year to address it what was done? Motlop, guthrie, Blicavs to name a few were never dropped. Fish rots at the head. Would love to see the back of Scott but sadly he is invincible to any pressure

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[Mad_Hatter]

Exactly and throughout the year to address it what was done? Motlop, guthrie, Blicavs to name a few were never dropped. Fish rots at the head. Would love to see the back of Scott but sadly he is invincible to any pressure

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Why only go half way up the ladder to Scott?
There are plenty above him who have a heap of say...

 

[Claude Balls]

Incorrect.

A team is deemed to have choked when it is actually the better team but loses nonetheless.

 

[Brains Trust66]

I wouldn't say you guys choked because Adelaide are a very good side but it was disappointing that you played so poorly. I'm not sure about blaming the coach either , I think you are undermanned overall. To win against the top sides you need all of your top players to fire at once . Mainly Dangerwood , S Selwood Hawkins and all you other mids . Then you need your defenders to have a good game . If all these things don't happen it's hard for you to beat the best . Against sides like us you can get away with Dangerwood winning the game for you . That's in my opinion of course and I'm no expert.

 

[Vdubs]

Coaches in the media is a recipe for disaster;
1. Plough when at the dogs
2. Brad Scott early on at North
3. Chris Scott now.

Yep get him off and get Paddy to cut down for a year.

Turning point preseason.


Go Cats!!!!!

Define disaster.
2016, 2017
2 top 4 finishes with a team bereft of A graders.

 

[hokee]

I think both the loss in 2016 & 2017 have demonstrated we are simply not good enough. We always hope our b graders can have an outbreak season but sadly the reality is that they haven't and probably never will. Duncan has stepped up but guys like Lang, Motlop, Kolo and Guthrie won't take us to next level. Some tough decisions need to be made during off season.

 

[Brains Trust66]

I think both the loss in 2016 & 2017 have demonstrated we are simply not good enough. We always hope our b graders can have an outbreak season but sadly the reality is that they haven't and probably never will. Duncan has stepped up but guys like Lang, Motlop, Kolo and Guthrie won't take us to next level. Some tough decisions need to be made during off season.

I thought Kolo looked fairly good at times this year , at worst maybe a bit slow for a backman which isn't great. Motlop will always be one of those players who drifts in and out of games , reminds me of Acres at St kilda . Or maybe I should say Acres reminds me of Motlop as Motlop is the more experienced.

Guthrie has looked good at times , but hasn't gone on yet like I thought he might but some players can need up to 6 years before they break out like Ross at St Kilda.

I don't know much about Lang but he's still young isn't he ? Maybe yourside has been at the top for so long you are expecting young players to develop as fast as Selwood who was one of the few that could play seniors straight away.

Do you think that's a possibility? Maybe in amongst the recent years there is a group who never made it which is putting pressure on the next younger group.

You have to remember you have been at the top for many years now without much of a dip anytime which is a fantastic effort but hard to keep going . Still forth two years in a row isn't bad. Perhaps too much is depended on Dangerfield and Selwood.

 

[Tkoajd]

Please tell me your not the bloke who rings up Krock every week.

And SEN.


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[Ashb23]

Incorrect.

A team is deemed to have choked when it is actually the better team but loses nonetheless.

So we choked in the first final. Surely we can all agree on that?

 

[cynical]

If you get done because of your national anthem stance you are not good enough that's all. The 2007 team-it would not have mattered how or where they were standing or looking. This stuff is peripheral and not of consequence when you are a very good side. We aren't and it had no impact on the game.

The national anthem just showed that the Crows are all on the same page and a team. We are just a bunch of individuals, its why under pressure we panic, it's why Danger does a heap of media work, its why when we are down Danger and Menzel blaze away.

Next year it'll be about Ablett.

The team has no core it's just a bunch of has beens, mercenaries and workmen like list cloggers all run by an ex media snake oil salesman in Chris Scott.

 

[Sticksman]

The national anthem just showed that the Crows are all on the same page and a team. We are just a bunch of individuals, its why under pressure we panic, it's why Danger does a heap of media work, its why when we are down Danger and Menzel blaze away.

Next year it'll be about Ablett.

The team has no core it's just a bunch of has beens, mercenaries and workmen like list cloggers all run by an ex media snake oil salesman in Chris Scott.

You really are having a miserable time. Why not give up and support another team or a different sport altogether. That's a serious suggestion btw

 

[cynical]

You really are having a miserable time. Why not give up and support another team or a different sport altogether. That's a serious suggestion btw

So you pretty much agree with everything i said then.

If you dont agree with something then come up with a counter argument instead of just the usual pissweak answer.