No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #13 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[lily of laguna]

Agree. I've wondered why AFL just doesn't 'compensate' in allowing club losing a player to have more freedom in salary cap to go for FA at a time suitable to them. Say NM offered B.Mackay $700,000 p.a., why can't they defer some salary cap for up to say 2 years (so pay around say 90% of salary cap next year and year after if they choose), effectively 'bank that', and then go for a FA next year or the year after (and being able to pay above salary cap then).

Someone who is smarter than me can give me an alternative I’m sure, the loss of good players out of bottom sides needs immediate remedy.

If not they stay down for even longer.

As much as I don’t like the makey uppey formula for compensation bottom teams are never going to attract prime players in trades or free agency so I guess they have to draft in the talent.


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[Bletch]

Agree. I've wondered why AFL just doesn't 'compensate' in allowing club losing a player to have more freedom in salary cap to go for FA at a time suitable to them. Say NM offered B.Mackay $700,000 p.a., why can't they defer some salary cap for up to say 2 years (so pay around say 90% of salary cap next year and year after if they choose), effectively 'bank that', and then go for a FA next year or the year after (and being able to pay above salary cap then).

So... how about, not only a fairer assessment of the 'compensation' for losing a free agent, with a point value assigned rather than a set position in the draft order, but also a points tax on the club taking the free agent?

So say Ben McKay is valued at 1000 points (based on contract offered). A loading of 500 points is added based on Norf's ladder position. He's valued at 1500 points. They get awarded pick 9, and the rest shuffle down. And say it's Sydney that pick him up - they need to find 1000 points to pay for him (don't need to pay the loading applied for Norf's lowly position on the ladder).

This not only makes it fairer for other clubs, but makes the top clubs think twice about raiding bottom clubs of free agents.

 

[DangerousD]

All this compensation stuff is a bit messy, i dont mind Stamos view to abolish it all together, there would be a lot of the sky is falling nonsense, but all we need to do is look at the second biggest football code in this country and see its not as huge issue as made out to be.

The NRL has no draft, no free agency, no trading (as far as I’m aware) you go where you want, when you want.

I remember looking a while back to see how many teams have won premierships the last 23 years and i remember it being about the same as the AFL.

 

[Sector 7G]

So... how about, not only a fairer assessment of the 'compensation' for losing a free agent, with a point value assigned rather than a set position in the draft order, but also a points tax on the club taking the free agent?

So say Ben McKay is valued at 1000 points (based on contract offered). A loading of 500 points is added based on Norf's ladder position. He's valued at 1500 points. They get awarded pick 9, and the rest shuffle down. And say it's Sydney that pick him up - they need to find 1000 points to pay for him (don't need to pay the loading applied for Norf's lowly position on the ladder).

This not only makes it fairer for other clubs, but makes the top clubs think twice about raiding bottom clubs of free agents.

Then they are not free agents, which is what is preventing the restraint of trade being pursued by the players

 

[Bletch]

Then they are not free agents, which is what is preventing the restraint of trade being pursued by the players

They can still go to their club of choice.

A requirement to pay draft points wouldn't seem to be any different to a requirement to meet salary cap limits surely?

 

[Magruder]

So... how about, not only a fairer assessment of the 'compensation' for losing a free agent, with a point value assigned rather than a set position in the draft order, but also a points tax on the club taking the free agent?

So say Ben McKay is valued at 1000 points (based on contract offered). A loading of 500 points is added based on Norf's ladder position. He's valued at 1500 points. They get awarded pick 9, and the rest shuffle down. And say it's Sydney that pick him up - they need to find 1000 points to pay for him (don't need to pay the loading applied for Norf's lowly position on the ladder).

This not only makes it fairer for other clubs, but makes the top clubs think twice about raiding bottom clubs of free agents.

don't mind this at all.

part of my issue with FA compo has been that all other teams largely defray draft capital cost rather than the acquiring team. Not just free-agency but a free hit.

In your scenario Norf pick up a mid 1st, and yes everybody shuffles back one in the draft order, but Sydney have to find the equivalent points value of #18. I assume these Syd picks are forfeit/cancelled? and therefore everyone also rolls forward...

 

[Magruder]

They can still go to their club of choice.

A requirement to pay draft points wouldn't seem to be any different to a requirement to meet salary cap limits surely?

but the salary cap draft etc are all restraints of trade that would be canned pretty quick if challenged.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

All this compensation stuff is a bit messy, i dont mind Stamos view to abolish it all together, there would be a lot of the sky is falling nonsense, but all we need to do is look at the second biggest football code in this country and see its not as huge issue as made out to be.

The NRL has no draft, no free agency, no trading (as far as I’m aware) you go where you want, when you want.

I remember looking a while back to see how many teams have won premierships the last 23 years and i remember it being about the same as the AFL.

Being in NSW and mates with an ex NRL boss.... Salary cap doesn't exist for some clubs too. Easier to become a stronger club easier to become a shit show like the tigers. No loyalty. It's a huuuuge issue and involves a lot of NRL hq interference behind the scenes.

 

[Bletch]

but the salary cap draft etc are all restraints of trade that would be canned pretty quick if challenged.

Indeed.

So, for instance, say Harley Reid wanted to play for Carlton, and a "mysterious benefactor" was willing to fund a $30m/10year contract to get him. He could take the AFL to court and say the existing draft system along with the salary cap is restricting his opportunity to play for his chosen employer. And he'd probably win I guess (IANAL).

AFL is relying on agreement with the AFLPA that this won't happen. And this is how we've got the current free agency system. Doesn't mean it can't be tweaked for fairness, but would need to get any changes past the AFLPA.

 

[Magruder]

Indeed.

So, for instance, say Harley Reid wanted to play for Carlton, and a "mysterious benefactor" was willing to fund a $30m/10year contract to get him. He could take the AFL to court and say the existing draft system along with the salary cap is restricting his opportunity to play for his chosen employer. And he'd probably win I guess (IANAL).

AFL is relying on agreement with the AFLPA that this won't happen. And this is how we've got the current free agency system. Doesn't mean it can't be tweaked for fairness, but would need to get any changes past the AFLPA.

oh, agree entirely.

makey-upy to fit an agenda should be shelved in favour of fairness and transparency.

 

[DangerousD]

Being in NSW and mates with an ex NRL boss.... Salary cap doesn't exist for some clubs too. Easier to become a stronger club easier to become a s**t show like the tigers. No loyalty. It's a huuuuge issue and involves a lot of NRL hq interference behind the scenes.

Im not up to date with the ins and the outs of the inner workings of the NRL but i was surprised that a league with free player movement and no draft has had 12 different premiers in the last 23 years, one even being the Tigers.

The AFL in the same period has had 11 different winners, so with all the trading and free agency compensation, the restriction of player movement, we are worse at being equal (by the smallest of margins) than the NRL.

If we include teams to have made a GF in the same time.

AFL. 15
NRL. 15

A long way of saying that i dont think removing trades and compensation from the AFL would do much to affect equalisation.

 

[TimeFor17]

Im not up to date with the ins and the outs of the inner workings of the NRL but i was surprised that a league with free player movement and no draft has had 12 different premiers in the last 23 years, one even being the Tigers.

The AFL in the same period has had 11 different winners, so with all the trading and free agency compensation, the restriction of player movement, we are worse at being equal (by the smallest of margins) than the NRL.

If we include teams to have made a GF in the same time.

AFL. 15
NRL. 15

A long way of saying that i dont think removing trades and compensation from the AFL would do much to affect equalisation.

Going by the nrl and afl comparison of premiers this century for equalisation and making the system Simple whilst being the most fair;

AFL should increase draftee contracts to minimum of 4 years for top 10, 3’years for 11-20 and then 2 years for 21 through rookies. After that free agents after initial contracts served.

If bottom teams haven’t shown the quality high draft pick players that they’re on te right track then they will probably leave.

This with Salary cap makes it an even and fair system whilst taking away the grey areas or ability for the afl to change the goal posts to suit their own agenda at the time.

 

[thylacine60]

if pies win the flag they then sit on top of the premierships ladder along with us and * - * having a double asterisk due to their not having to play and win a grand final game for 2 of their "flags"........ (1897, 1924)......

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

Im not up to date with the ins and the outs of the inner workings of the NRL but i was surprised that a league with free player movement and no draft has had 12 different premiers in the last 23 years, one even being the Tigers.

The AFL in the same period has had 11 different winners, so with all the trading and free agency compensation, the restriction of player movement, we are worse at being equal (by the smallest of margins) than the NRL.

If we include teams to have made a GF in the same time.

AFL. 15
NRL. 15

A long way of saying that i dont think removing trades and compensation from the AFL would do much to affect equalisation.

All the salary cap has done is ensure the lions and swans are constantly successful to the dtriment of teams like us.

Should be a free for all like it used to be.

They have effectively transfered our wealth (success) to the other teams

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Im not up to date with the ins and the outs of the inner workings of the NRL but i was surprised that a league with free player movement and no draft has had 12 different premiers in the last 23 years, one even being the Tigers.

The AFL in the same period has had 11 different winners, so with all the trading and free agency compensation, the restriction of player movement, we are worse at being equal (by the smallest of margins) than the NRL.

If we include teams to have made a GF in the same time.

AFL. 15
NRL. 15

A long way of saying that i dont think removing trades and compensation from the AFL would do much to affect equalisation.

Yeah it's a fairly surprising stat. You are right .

All the salary cap has done is ensure the lions and swans are constantly successful to the dtriment of teams like us.

Should be a free for all like it used to be.

They have effectively transfered our wealth (success) to the other teams

Not even slightly.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Is it just me or does the notion of David Koch potentially joining the AFL commission alarms me almost as much as The Filth winning the flag ??

 

[myblueroan]

Is it just me or does the notion of David Koch potentially joining the AFL commission alarms me almost as much as The Filth winning the flag ??

Not quite Elmer.

 

[myblueroan]

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Bell v SOS at the trade table.

This is going to be the one that won't be done until 20 seconds to go on the final day of trade period

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Bell v SOS at the trade table.

This is going to be the one that won't be done until 20 seconds to go on the final day of trade period

Helps to bid on academy players sometimes


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[Aphrodite]

Bell v SOS at the trade table.

This is going to be the one that won't be done until 20 seconds to go on the final day of trade period

Why would anyone want to go to that Rabble

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Why would anyone want to go to that Rabble

Money i would think. Can't think of any other reason

 

[TJohn]

Wanna see more of Lyon spittin’ it

 

[TJohn]

Had enough of Hodge commentary, Gunna watch another replay of the Mighty Fn Blues dispose of Shitney

 

[myblueroan]

Had enough of Hodge commentary, Gunna watch another replay of the Mighty Fn Blues dispose of Shitney

Love Hodgey!