No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club news

[Billyc]

Dated methods?, you clearly have no idea about how high performance environments work

Lol.

Get back to reporting your silly Facebook rumours.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Lol.

Get back to reporting your silly Facebook rumours.

Get back to being offended over everything

*Knew Mitchell was leaving mid last year champ

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I think the very name of Tom's podcast speaks to what he thinks of himself - a ball magnet. The game has changed - and Tom racking up 32 disposals a game wasn't what was needed of him last year. The coaching staff knew that, but I think Tom had a tough time getting his head around that fact.

The sheer mention "I got Brownlow votes that game" speaks to how he probably still doesn't get it. I can do my work faster than every single other person in the office and make a song and dance about it, but if I'm working on the wrong thing - what's the point.

I mean he did just finish fourth in the Pies B&F and was arguably second best on field on GF day.

He's still a very, very good footballer. He was last year as well.

I'd be pretty peeved at getting a 1 rating after a good game, not many players wouldn't.

 

[peetoo]

Ok the comments i have seen from ppl here are 100% accurate. Mitchell doesnt listen. Many times last year he was pulled up at training for being out of position even when told to go to a player he refused.

He does his own thing. It was an ongoing issue. It doesn't sit well when ure trying to teach the youngsters to play as a team to defend when one of your senior players just refuses to do it

So what do u do if the behaviour is repetitive. I guess they could drop him right. Football is a team sport. I am guessing he was probably subbed at Collingwood for exactly this reason

Poor man’s dangerfield. What is it with Brownlow medalists who are iffy kicks and can’t be coached? Fyfe priddis too

 

[Ned Ryerson]

What if it was Robert Harvey and not Sam Mitchell? Would all the same blind defences of these dated methods apply?

Yes. Monday meetings where the previous round’s games are dissected and players performances are in the spotlight - both good AND bad are common. Footy clubs aren’t the private sector. I’m all for players having their lives outside the club and being treated humanely and decently when switching clubs etc. But if a bloke is REPEATEDLY ignoring coaches instructions to the detriment of the side and setting a bad example for younger players then I can see why being called out would be a last resort option for a coach.

You’ve mentioned managing someone out in your previous posts - while not public do you not think that putting someone on a performance plan as a way of setting up their exit from a business is also demeaning and insulting them? I’ve seen staff put on them and they’ve never taken it as a boot up the bum they just get more demotivated and find a new job. Same outcome with Tom just slightly different path. It’s not as if they could say to Tom ‘here’s your performance plan, consider this your first warning’. There’s certain elements of the modern corporate work environment that aren’t going to work in a footy club.

 

[Yardie]

Do you manage people and if so, do you resort to those tactics if someone isn't responding well to feedback? Quite aside from not being a great way to treat people, it's just ineffective and doesn't work.

Surprised this is being debated in 2023 to be honest.

You end up performance managing them by setting them tasks that are reasonable and expected for them to accomplish and if they are unable to meet those expectations they are moved on from the organisation.

 

[Billyc]

You end up performance managing them by setting them tasks that are reasonable and expected for them to accomplish and if they are unable to meet those expectations they are moved on from the organisation.

Agree.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Might be the wrong thread - sorry.

surely we've learnt over the last 12mths that context is important.

 

[Hawthorn2023]

We got nothing in return.

Chances are all four were going to have vastly improved season whether Mitchell was here or not, he was already making way and Sam clearly had plans to build around the four you mentioned.

Saved ourselves $650k

 

[bigmaxi]

professionalism......there is such a thing.

 

[Hawthorn2023]

Intentionally done to drive him out, do you reckon?

No.

Clearly wasn't listening to instructions and game plan.

The reality is he was on $900k, Brownlow medallist and multiple PCM winner.

The "leader" of a midfield ranked 18th in the comp.

With a year to go on his contact, the market value was Picks 42 & 50.

I would have thought that being traded for 42 & 50 would have "made me feel like s--t"

 

[Ashman23]

Gee the Shinbeggars are such a shit club.

I feel sorry for their supporter base.

 

[Hawthorn2023]

The broader clip is pretty tough. He kinda insinuates that he wasn’t really being told why or being brought into the process, instead just being told after in front of the group with clips or by earning the lowest score out of 5 from the coaches each week of any player in the team (even when he was polling Brownlow votes).

Truth is prob in the middle but hopefully some of this was down to Harvey who he would have been reporting directly to.

To his credit he talks about how much he still loves the club.

He was #1 in salary at the club. Midfield was 18th in the comp.

 

[H00t]

Gee the Shinbeggars are such a s**t club.

I feel sorry for their supporter base.

I wouldn’t. Their supporters are insufferable.

 

[Hawthorn2023]

Or its a reflection on Tom Mitchell who was pushed out of two clubs

Spot on.

 

[Braidz]

Gee the Shinbeggars are such a s**t club.

I feel sorry for their supporter base.

I don’t. They believe they are entitled to these handouts.

 

[Ashman23]

That's why I feel sorry for them. They're deluded into thinking this is what success looks like.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Sounds like Clarry will be making moves on Gawn's wife in no time.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Tom loves taking the low road blokes a diva without much awareness across both teams, game success, plenty of awareness over where the footy is though.

He was very fortunate to have strong characters around him at Collingwood

 

[offtherails9]

I loved Tom as a player at the Hawks, but it become glaringly obvious over his last few seasons that he couldn't continue to play that way if our midfield was going to improve. I think he played fairly differently in his last few seasons than say 17 and 18 when he was having his 35-40 odd but still finding ways to be damaging.

To mention that he received Brownlow votes in the same game he copped a spray from is frankly embarrassing and it really just completely paints the picture of what Mitchell cares about.

He started off this season hot and then he went back to where he was last year with us, trying too hard to keep his stats up and not do what he needed to do. However his Grand Final was really fantastic, it was a terrific inside game and when he had the footy he actually lowered his eyes and hit some good important kicks rather than bombing to nothing.

I'm undecided if this was necessary for Mitchell to talk about this, he's pretty openly flamed Sam Mitchell for this. To me it looks like he can't take negative feedback very well. It's a quite common tactic for a coach to point out the mistakes of a player that is highly respected within the group to put the rest of the group on notice that if that guy is under the pump like that, I need to make sure I have my shit sorted.

His defensive actions have always been a question and getting a cheap possession or one two always seemed more important than anything else and I think that's why he's onto his third club. I'm happy for him personally that he has a flag but to call out Sam like that is pathetic and kind of further paints the image of him in my head that I had been heading towards for a little while (a bit of a loser)

 

[offtherails9]

Not necessarily - I realise you claim humiliation never works, but this instance has been retold as a case of an unprompted focus on Mitchell’s errors during a particular game.

It’s only humiliating if the player himself:

1. has no prior warning;
2. hasn’t been counselled previously in a more collaborative manner; and
3. Hasn’t been given an opportunity to address the issue in other games.

In the end, the tape doesn’t lie.

Mitchell’s own performance being placed in front of the playing group is humiliating ONLY if he hasn’t been given a chance to own it first.

I’ve coached players at the level below who have openly stated to me they’re fine with being held up in front of the group as making mistakes if they happen, and they find it very motivating to be challenged to improve in a public forum.

Great points mate, and I actually was hoping you would have given your perspective on this when I clicked on the thread.

Do people think this game was the first time Tom had not being doing the thing he should be doing defensively and called out for it? Would be pretty surprised if so!

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Not the first club Titch has felt hard done by.

Wonder what the common denominator is

 

[Off The Couch]

There are a a couple of things that stick out for me here:

1. Mitchell didn’t and hasn’t ever liked taking direction


2. He was never made an example of and dropped

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Hard to disagree with that - but that guy pays for Twitter/X so his opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

2. He was never made an example of and dropped

Made the sub a couple of times by Fly. That's as good as being dropped.