Review Grand Final, 2024 - Sydney vs. Brisbane Lions

[Nathan Barley]

Yeah and Ah Chee was probably one of only two players to stand up for all 4 quarters against GWS alongside Berry. Ah Chee is criminally underrated. Incredibly skilful by hand and foot

Let's not pretend his finals form was consistent with the home and away season.

I think it was the GWS or Collingwood losses late in the year was an absolutely abysmal game

Will be interesting which players drop out of the side early next year without the finals motivation

 

[martinson]

I think it was the GWS or Collingwood losses late in the year was an absolutely abysmal game

Will be interesting which players drop out of the side early next year without the finals motivation

Ha Ha.

He's been in the side in one position or another ever since he got here barring injuries of which he's copped a couple and taken time to get over concussions. He's had a great year playing virtually a selfless role. You love giving he and Lester a slap Nathan but it turns out they're both guns.

We finally at last we let the shackles off because we had no alternative and it turns out he's a match winner in crucial games. Plus having a significant role in shutting down the oppositions go to defender 3 times running.

'Let's not pretend his finals form was consistent with the home and away season.'

That's one of the most churlish comments I've ever read. He was comfortably one of our better players in most of the games during the season . And just a whole new level during finals. Isn't that what separates good players from great players ?

 

[Nathan Barley]

Ha Ha.

He's been in the side in one position or another ever since he got here barring injuries of which he's copped a couple and taken time to get over concussions. He's had a great year playing virtually a selfless role. You love giving he and Lester a slap Nathan but it turns out they're both guns.

We finally at last we let the shackles off because we had no alternative and it turns out he's a match winner in crucial games. Plus having a significant role in shutting down the oppositions go to defender 3 times running.

'Let's not pretend his finals form was consistent with the home and away season.'

That's one of the most churlish comments I've ever read. He was comfortably one of our better players in most of the games during the season . And just a whole new level during finals. Isn't that what separates good players from great players ?

Very short memory martinson

Do you remember who won the norm Smith last year? You can't just extrapolate a finals series and expect players to maintain that level

It's great to have September specialists but especially applicable to the likes of Ah Chee we know he doesn't do it consistently and seems like the kind of guy who needs a kick up the bump to find form as we've seen with him consistently not being in the round 1 team

He deserves to be applauded for his phenomenal final series but as fans we're setting ourselves up for disappointment if we think the side is going to continue this form from now on

 

[Nunez]

Let's not pretend his finals form was consistent with the home and away season.

I think it was the GWS or Collingwood losses late in the year was an absolutely abysmal game

Will be interesting which players drop out of the side early next year without the finals motivation

Ah Chee is the definition of a guy who hit form at the perfect time. Was incredible in finals and hope that gives him a lot of belief moving forward.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Ah Chee is the definition of a guy who hit form at the perfect time. Was incredible in finals and hope that gives him a lot of belief moving forward.

Yeah and he’s a different forward to Linc but if his form does slip he could drop out

 

[martinson]

Very short memory martinson

Do you remember who won the norm Smith last year? You can't just extrapolate a finals series and expect players to maintain that level

It's great to have September specialists but especially applicable to the likes of Ah Chee we know he doesn't do it consistently and seems like the kind of guy who needs a kick up the bump to find form as we've seen with him consistently not being in the round 1 team

He deserves to be applauded for his phenomenal final series but as fans we're setting ourselves up for disappointment if we think the side is going to continue this form from now on

You're a bit delusional in your little biases Nathan.

You're a big one for the coaches know best. He's held in very high regard and one of the first picked every week. The only times he hasn't been picked is when injured or recovering from injury. He played 26 games in 24. Fwwiw Fagan rates him very highly. We mucked around with him as a lockdown defender for years where he did a god job in a foreign role. If we had've thrown him in as the spare in defence at the end of finals games last year instead of Rayner we probably win the GF. We woke up this year.

You're a great extrapolator on other people's thoughts. Who expects anyone to maintain outstanding finals form ? The fact is he did it in extenuating circumstances and big moments, so he's capable of it unlike many of the others ,and just playing his role well with 2 or 3 games like that during the season is enough to make him a valued player.

 

[martinson]

Yeah and he’s a different forward to Linc but if his form does slip he could drop out

He's never dropped out when he's been fit and well.

 

[Nathan Barley]

You're a bit delusional in your little biases Nathan.

You're a big one for the coaches know best. He's held in very high regard and one of the first picked every week. The only times he hasn't been picked is when injured or recovering from injury. He played 26 games in 24. Fwwiw Fagan rates him very highly. We mucked around with him as a lockdown defender for years where he did a god job in a foreign role. If we had've thrown him in as the spare in defence at the end of finals games last year instead of Rayner we probably win the GF. We woke up this year.

You're a great extrapolator on other people's thoughts. Who expects anyone to maintain outstanding finals form ? The fact is he did it in extenuating circumstances and big moments, so he's capable of it unlike many of the others ,and just playing his role well with 2 or 3 games like that during the season is enough to make him a valued player.

Did you see the original post I replied to?

 

[martinson]

It's really weird this is even being talked about . For years we've wanted forwards who can attack and defend.

He's just done both in 4 finals, arguably winning us the game in 2 of them or at the least having a significant role in 3, and someone's worried that he never got 'picked ' in the first game.

Geez. I've been defending this guy against all comers for 5 years. The same people. You think they'd give it up for a month or two.

To Fagan's credit I've heard him say twice that Cal doesn't realise how good he is. So he's stuck fat with him and got rewarded.

 

[Nunez]

It's really weird this is even being talked about . For years we've wanted forwards who can attack and defend.

He's just done both in 4 finals, arguably winning us the game in 2 of them or at the least having a significant role in 3, and someone's worried that he never got 'picked ' in the first game.

Geez. I've been defending this guy against all comers for 5 years. The same people. You think they'd give it up for a month or two.

To Fagan's credit I've heard him say twice that Cal doesn't realise how good he is. So he's stuck fat with him and got rewarded.

To be fair Nathan isn't wrong in saying Cal hasn't been super consistent over his career. I am a huge fan of his too and can admit that. That all said, he clearly got a good run of games and particularly in the second half of the year really started to build form and confidence, culminating in a stellar finals series. Only way he drops out of the team is if his form drops, but that spot is absolutely his to lose.

 

[martinson]

This is the way things are at all clubs and at our club it's no different.

There are certain players that have to have great games for anyone to think they've had a good game. And others can get away with runs of poor games where people will defend them to the hilt. Then they play a pearler so they're a great player.

I sort of differ in that to me he has been very consistent. When we played him as a defender he was rarely beaten. I kept pointing out who his opponent was and what his role was but whatever ,he wasn't getting enough of the ball. Then we rotated him off the wing and he was the best in the role that we had bar Berry and at least gave us a marking target on the wings.

As a forward with some consistency in that role he's still able to exert the defensive capacities we need but be ruthless when he gets hold of it.

Players that can do all that are rare. He can fill a need whenever we're in trouble. Just think he's a gun tbh. And very hard at it.

 

[Nunez]

This is the way things are at all clubs and at our club it's no different.

There are certain players that have to have great games for anyone to think they've had a good game. And others can get away with runs of poor games where people will defend them to the hilt. Then they play a pearler so they're a great player.

I sort of differ in that to me he has been very consistent. When we played him as a defender he was rarely beaten. I kept pointing out who his opponent was and what his role was but whatever ,he wasn't getting enough of the ball. Then we rotated him off the wing and he was the best in the role that we had bar Berry and at least gave us a marking target on the wings.

As a forward with some consistency in that role he's still able to exert the defensive capacities we need but be ruthless when he gets hold of it.

Players that can do all that are rare. He can fill a need whenever we're in trouble. Just think he's a gun tbh. And very hard at it.

Fair enough. I think he struggled with consistency not just because of form but because of fitness and injury. Once he got his body right, it's no surprise his football improved dramatically. It's really not a slight on Cal at all.

His best is very, very good. Could see him kicking 30-40 easy next season, all the while providing great pressure.

Ideal world, would love a 5 man bench, put one of Fort or Smith as the bench ruck and use Rayner and Cal as pseudo talls. It would be a smaller forward line, but the usual issue with small forward lines is the inability to contested mark - not a problem Cal, Cam or Logan have.

 

[martinson]

Fair enough. I think he struggled with consistency not just because of form but because of fitness and injury. Once he got his body right, it's no surprise his football improved dramatically. It's really not a slight on Cal at all.

His best is very, very good. Could see him kicking 30-40 easy next season, all the while providing great pressure.

Ideal world, would love a 5 man bench, put one of Fort or Smith as the bench ruck and use Rayner and Cal as pseudo talls. It would be a smaller forward line, but the usual issue with small forward lines is the inability to contested mark - not a problem Cal, Cam or Logan have.

True. The only time we haven't found a spot for him is when injured or recovering from injury. It took him a long time to get over that Cripps hit then he copped another one at training. Besides the hamstring/groin issues he's had ,often playing through that.

Medium/small sized forwards who can take a grab are like gold and we have 3 . Throw in McCarthy who can also mark effectively and Morris who takes bigger grabs than his actual size would indicate . I don't think Daniher is any great loss from a contested mark perspective , it's just having someone who's a tall enough target to a least bring it to the ground and around the wings, and to take some ruck duties.

We can go in with a bit of a different look and see how it goes.

 

[Gadzorks]

To be fair Nathan isn't wrong in saying Cal hasn't been super consistent over his career. I am a huge fan of his too and can admit that. That all said, he clearly got a good run of games and particularly in the second half of the year really started to build form and confidence, culminating in a stellar finals series. Only way he drops out of the team is if his form drops, but that spot is absolutely his to lose.

Hard to be super consistent when you get moved all around the ground.

Ah chee and Lester both are incredible footballers capable of playing anywhere. The old jack of all trades master of none.

They have copped criticism from fans who judged their jack of all trades perfromances against what they expect from a specalist performance. Now they have been given the chance to specialise, and excelling, those fans are having trouble adjusting. They just can't say I'm wrrroooonnnnggg.

 

[Nunez]

Hard to be super consistent when you get moved all around the ground.

Ah chee and Lester both are incredible footballers capable of playing anywhere. The old jack of all trades master of none.

They have copped criticism from fans who judged their jack of all trades perfromances against what they expect from a specalist performance. Now they have been given the chance to specialise, and excelling, those fans are having trouble adjusting. They just can't say I'm wrrroooonnnnggg.

I don't really think that's a fair statement tbh. I think everyone has embraced what Lester and Ah Chee have done.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don't really think that's a fair statement tbh. I think everyone has embraced what Lester and Ah Chee have done.

Not true. I believe they are not the best ever playing in their respective roles. Controversial opinion

 

[Gadzorks]

I don't really think that's a fair statement tbh. I think everyone has embraced what Lester and Ah Chee have done.

Fair enough.

I'll skip the posts about them being dropped at the start of next year. I find them disrespectful.

 

[Gadzorks]

Not true. I believe they are not the best ever playing in their respective roles. Controversial opinion

Best ever? Conversation changing again. .

 

[Nathan Barley]

Best ever? Conversation changing again. .

That’s how it works. I say Ah Chee will likely not continue his finals form through next season and get paragraphs in reply about how great he is.

At half time in the GWS final almost everyone was of the opinion Lester wasn’t going to be best 22 next season now he’s a superstar key back and you have to just disregard his average form for most of the season

 

[Nunez]

Fair enough.

I'll skip the posts about them being dropped at the start of next year. I find them disrespectful.

Lester isn't in my best 23 next year if all players are fit. That doesn't mean he wasn't this year - he was very much entrenched.

It is really nothing personal.

 

[M Malice]

I admitted I was wrong re Froggy a fair while ago, he has been sensational this season, but it was only a couple of seasons ago that he played mostly Reserves footy(match committee must not have been enamoured with him either), even Froggy admitted he thought his career may have been done, so he decided to take the game on more and back in his skills and the rest is history.

Always been a fan of Ah Chee but he has been a little inconsistent over the entirety of his career, he is now a lock that is for sure.

I don't see anything wrong with discussing the varying strengths and weaknesses of any player on our list and then expressing an opinion on whether they should be in the side or not, the push back and forth plus the banter is great ..... this is a forum designed for that conversation.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

I've always thought of Ah Chee as a handy Mr Fixit who would come into the side and display good form for a few games and then go off the boil, so to speak. I still think that will end up as his role but we will all celebrate that run of career best form for a long time. Agree with the above, he will get to start next season as locked in. Others will have to chase his spot now.

Edit. Good discussion by the way.

 

[martinson]

That’s how it works. I say Ah Chee will likely not continue his finals form through next season and get paragraphs in reply about how great he is.

At half time in the GWS final almost everyone was of the opinion Lester wasn’t going to be best 22 next season now he’s a superstar key back and you have to just disregard his average form for most of the season

You try to put words in everyone's mouth to substantiate whatever your view is.

If he continued his finals form through the next season he'd win the Brownlow from a HFF.

Trying to make some sort of deal about him not consistently repeating that is just being obtuse for the sake of it.

As far as Lester goes he was a great player all year and part of our stability and improved offence from the back half especially in the last dozen or so games. To say his form was average is plain wrong.

 

[martinson]

You can see Nathan just itching for Cal and Froggy to drop off a bit so he can finally be proven right when he missed the train in he first place .

It's over. They were both absolute guns in a flag year and Cal particularly won us finals games . End of story.

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

You can see Nathan just itching for Cal and Froggy to drop off a bit so he can finally be proven right when he missed the train in he first place .

It's over. They were both absolute guns in a flag year and Cal particularly won us finals games . End of story.

Yeh I’m not sure what the point of slagging our players who just won us a premiership is. The thread is to discuss the GF and all its glory. Not who’s going to be dropped next year because they didn’t kick 4 goals in round 1.