Analysis Grundy, Cox and Cameron Discussion

[sr36]

If Grundy becomes a decent forward, we can do what we do with all decent forwards - talk about moving them into the midfield. For once it will actually be a really good idea.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Wes Fellowes played forward from time to time, as did Monkey.
Let’s not forget Josh Fraser, the guy whose career was cut short by playing in the ruck for ten plus years.
Finally he burnt out, and the club moved on to Jolly. Why would anyone want a repeat of that?

 

[manicpie]

Wes Fellowes played forward from time to time, as did Monkey.
Let’s not forget Josh Fraser, the guy whose career was cut short by playing in the ruck for ten plus years.
Finally he burnt out, and the club moved on to Jolly. Why would anyone want a repeat of that?

Grundy has never shown any forward craft, just because he is the best ruck in the league doesn't mean you can just play him CHF and expect him to do any good, his marking isn't great and either is his set shot kicking, he signed a 7 year deal to be a ruckman, so just let him ruck

 

[magpiewarrior]

Supremely agile for a ruckman but he's still a big lumbering beast with no burst of speed on take off and not enough agility to use trickery to gain separation on a defender.

I've also got some doubts about his ability to keep presenting on repeat leads as well, as that sort of endurance (repeat efforts at something closer to top speed) is certainly not his strong suit.

Whilst I don’t disagree with your comment re lack of burst speed, I am staggered by your assertion that he doesn’t have repeat effort endurance.
Don’t get me wrong, I think this thread is simply bait to get people biting ( oh and hasn’t it been a huge success !), he may just be the best ruckman of the modern era. All while spending most of every game rucking solo as well as doing a bucketload of work around the ground. That’s pretty hard to imagine without the guy having great repeat effort endurance.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

I never thought I’d change careers, but guess what, I did, and I am making a success of my new one.
People are adaptable, in this scenario, Grundy would merely be changing his role within the same organisation.
If Darcy Cameron is going to play senior football, then something needs to be considered. Gone are the days where you can just leave someone on the bench for extended periods.

 

[jmac70]

We have the best ruckman in the AFL.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Point taken.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Glad I didn’t suggest he should play back pocket! There’d probably be a witch hunt for me.
We were beaten badly at centre half forward in the prelim, Mihochek was completely ineffective. For the first time in his career he was heavily targeted as a danger player, and the result was that we lost.
Grundy on the other hand amassed close to record stats as a ruckman that day, but kept palming the ball to his feet, to no obvious advantage, I can’t remember one occasion where he punched it forward a few metres to gain some ground, and catch the Giants out.

You're forgetting that Checker's was curbed in part and probably largely in part because we tweaked our game plan. When you try to control transition at the coalface ball win it invites pressure and hampers our structuring on the ball win - hence Checkers and all of our forwards are hampered by oppo pressure.

Instead of backing themselves and pre empting winning the ball and structuring on the outside, instead the intent seems to be swarm and 'massage' the ball to space. All good and well when you're a great transition team, it also disables numbers on the outside.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

Maybe I am, but you sound like David King with all that jargon. I just notice when players are being beaten by their opponents.

 

[Anzacday]

Maybe I am, but you sound like David King with all that jargon. I just notice when players are being beaten by their opponents.

If you look to the right there's a reply button.
Not obligated to use it, would be nice though so it doesn't look like you're talking to yourself

 

[Horaceg]

He might play more Forward but he still be our Number 1 Ruck

...and will be our No 1 ruckman for some time, he's the best in the business, play to your strengths.

It may be an option later in his career

 

[Horaceg]

We won’t know unless it’s tried, presuming it will ever be tried.
The reality is however that the alternatives are Reid, Mihochek and Cox. None of these names fill me with great confidence. if we are going to be a serious contender, we need to address the obvious void at CHF.

Kelly might work out as an option.

 

[Horaceg]

Grundy doesn't have the flimsy frame of Josh Fraser. He's also a ruck and rover which is invaluable.

Josh Fraser should have been CHF not the ruck we turned him into.

 

[Horaceg]

no way, he's the best ruck in the AFL

Technically correct but Grundy is the best footballer that plays in that position, he's not just a ruckman IMHO

 

[Horaceg]

Grundy has never shown any forward craft, just because he is the best ruck in the league doesn't mean you can just play him CHF and expect him to do any good, his marking isn't great and either is his set shot kicking, he signed a 7 year deal to be a ruckman, so just let him ruck

That goal against Richmond with 4 seconds to go showed some small forward craft....lol

 

[HenrikLundqvist]

Having Grundy as CHF would be Robert Walls' wet dream. That way we could throw him in the ruck to run himself into some form.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

If you look to the right there's a reply button.
Not obligated to use it, would be nice though so it doesn't look like you're talking to yourself

Thank you.

 

[TradeDraft]

Grundy has never shown any forward craft, just because he is the best ruck in the league doesn't mean you can just play him CHF and expect him to do any good, his marking isn't great and either is his set shot kicking, he signed a 7 year deal to be a ruckman, so just let him ruck

Maybe because he barley ever plays Forward so had not much to go off

 

[TradeDraft]

That goal against Richmond with 4 seconds to go showed some small forward craft....lol

As a Crumber

 

[Pie eyed]

Must be a full moon.

Obviously he can't play ruck for seven years, this is why Collingwood gave him a seven year contract...to confuse the opposition?
Brilliant I reckon.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Maybe I am, but you sound like David King with all that jargon. I just notice when players are being beaten by their opponents.

Grundy rarely gets beaten by his opponent.

As for the rest of your comment my post has zero to do with David King or any similarities in the opinion of the Pies system. It merely explains forwards any forward can be curtailed by opposition pressure. That's the key to the Pies plan, outnumber in the contest AND outnumber when in possession or at least it was in 2018.

As for your idea, how do you think he'd go as a chf against the likes of McGovern, Davis, Tarrant etc. etc? these guys are all much much more mobile than Grundy. At best a resting deep forward and that's years away IMO.

 

[Robroy22]

Grundy rarely gets beaten by his opponent.

As for the rest of your comment my post has zero to do with David King or any similarities in the opinion of the Pies system. It merely explains forwards any forward can be curtailed by opposition pressure. That's the key to the Pies plan, outnumber in the contest AND outnumber when in possession or at least it was in 2018.

As for your idea, how do you think he'd go as a chf against the likes of McGovern, Davis, Tarrant etc. etc? these guys are all much much more mobile than Grundy. At best a resting deep forward and that's years away IMO.

Is that Phil Davis? He's less mobile than Ben Reid!

 

[Carringbush2010]

Is that Phil Davis? He's less mobile than Ben Reid!

Yeah that's a big call, an injured Davis maybe but even if Reid was fresh as a daisy vs fresh as a daisy at best it's an each way bet IMO.

 

[neilk]

Is that Phil Davis? He's less mobile than Ben Reid!

I'd have Phil Davis at Collingwood in a heartbeat!

 

[Robroy22]

I'd have Phil Davis at Collingwood in a heartbeat!

Watch Davis play. Since the injuries he's become a great "pointer" (like Rance and Maxy were) GWS only play him on lumbering CHF's nowadays cos they know he's slow as treacle. He plays on nous and positioning. Great leader perhaps but a mobile forward cuts him up. He needs a lot of help from Shawy and the other GWS intercept players these days.
When he was at the Crows (pre-injury) he WAS a gun. Nowadays he's just a step ahead of Benny Reid.