- Oct 4, 2018
- 10,160
- 25,808
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
Don't see anything about 2025 here...
Opinion Has this Carlton list already peaked?
- Thread starter GC2015
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Sep 3, 2019
- 21,712
- 63,509
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
So when Carlton supporters imply we’re shit and not contending it’s fact and when it’s reversed it’s garbage. Sensitive lot aren’t ya?
- Sep 3, 2019
- 21,712
- 63,509
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Yet. campaigners got another arm to fill
- Sep 26, 2004
- 47,985
- 65,019
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Moderator
- #304
Yeah that’s not correct, both played in rounds 23 and 24.
- Oct 4, 2018
- 10,160
- 25,808
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
Probably got 17-20 on the other arm
- Sep 26, 2004
- 47,985
- 65,019
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Moderator
- #306
No. Stop making rubbish up, it’s not helping whatever argument you’re trying to make.
There’s already a Bay 13 style thread on this board for you and your Collingwood mates to troll as much as you like, you don’t need another.
- Sep 3, 2019
- 21,712
- 63,509
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Straight to personal insults. Stunning and brave. Ok Carlton are beautifully placed for next year and should win the flag.
- Oct 4, 2018
- 10,160
- 25,808
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
But that isn't what this thread is about. The question posed is regarding whether Carlton's list has peaked. The 70% that have said yes are stating that this Carlton list cannot improve on what they have shown in the last few years. I personally don't understand the argument but that is what should be being discussed.
- Sep 26, 2004
- 47,985
- 65,019
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Moderator
- #309
Straight to personal insults. Stunning and brave. Ok Carlton are beautifully placed for next year and should win the flag.
Nothing personal there.
Happy for you to show me where someone in this thread has genuinely said we're certainties for the flag, suspect I'll be waiting a while though.
Looking at the OP, the "list already peaking" seems to just mean that this group of players won't advance further than a preliminary final. More than it being impossible for the list to get better or the players to perform any better.
I would see finishing top 4 as significant progress, or a "new peak" so long as they weren't atrocious in finals. They were 3 wins away from that top 4 mark in 2023 despite the couple of great finals wins.
Brisbane won it from 5th this year but they had a hell of a lot of finals experience behind them. Thus in this finals format only Bulldogs 2016 have done it outside of the top 4 without being a group of finals veterans. Almost every time you need to finish top 4 to have a realistic shot at a flag. So that's the marker Carlton should have for progress in 2025 - top 4 and being competitive in finals.
- Oct 4, 2018
- 10,160
- 25,808
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
I agree top 4 should be what we should be targeting just like any team hoping to contend. Very tough to win it from outside the four - especially with a few interstate teams looking very strong
Brisbane were superb, but they had a great knockout/away finals run in 2024 so could be considered an outlier. Giants stadium is probably the softest away final you could get (basically no home crowd atmosphere) and Geelong at the MCG is one of the better results you could get as well. Then a neutral grand final.
They may well have still saluted if they faced Port and Sydney away, with Hawthorn in a grand final (for example) but that would be a tougher run and more reflective of what a 5th-8th team ends up having to do.
- May 20, 2014
- 22,170
- 29,158
- AFL Club
- Geelong
I don't think you can associate the list peaking with finishing position.
The list is probably pretty close to peaking unless they have some hidden talents in the VFL that non Carlton fans are not aware of. By the time Jagga Smith is a fully formed AFL footballer, Cripps is likely done for example.
That doesn't mean they can't improve on their finishing positions of the last two years though.
Having everyone fit in September would improve their finishing position by itself, even without internal improvement.
The list is probably pretty close to peaking unless they have some hidden talents in the VFL that non Carlton fans are not aware of. By the time Jagga Smith is a fully formed AFL footballer, Cripps is likely done for example.
That doesn't mean they can't improve on their finishing positions of the last two years though.
Having everyone fit in September would improve their finishing position by itself, even without internal improvement.
- Oct 4, 2018
- 10,160
- 25,808
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
I agree with your first point - I think Carlton's list could perform better than they did in 2023 and not make it as far as a PF. The opposite is also true in that they could perform worse and make it to a GF or possibly win one. A lot will depend on the strength of the teams you face in finals as Mr Meow mentioned above.
The reason why I don't believe the list has peaked performance wise is I think we have a lot of players in our best 23 that have not yet performed close to their peak. This includes the likes of TDK, Walsh, Cerra, E.Hollands, O.Hollands, Cowan, Boyd, Motlop just off the top of my head that are in my personal best 23. Again a best 23 is subjective so I expect other Carlton supporters to have other players they would mention here. Then you have some "older" (not that old) types that would already be considered elite like Weitering/McKay/Curnow who despite having played strong football still have areas for improvement. I don't think using individual accolades as evidence they have peaked makes sense. McKay's career best year for Carlton was this year and he didn't make AA or finish top-5 in our BnF and yet he won a Coleman and made AA in a year he imo performed worse in. Even Cripps this year showed massive improvement in his outside game at the age of 29 so I have no trouble believing the likes of Weitering/Curnow/Charlie can't do the same at 27.
Then the argument is if there is enough improvement from the players I have listed above and others I have missed to counteract the loss of impact from some of our older players. This is where I particularly like our list management strategy in recent years as we are already recruiting players to replace them years ahead of when they will actually be needed. Cripps, Newman, Saad, McGovern etc are still playing at a pretty high level but inevitably their time will come. When it does we have set ourselves up to have players like Lord, Binns, Moir, Wilson, Smith etc who will be able to come in and start replacing those roles with 3-4 years of VFL/AFL experience already under their belt. That way we limit the drop-off when the older players are phase out.
And lastly you do also raise a good point about cohesion. Any improvement in that area is just an added bonus to the above.
Edit: I will also add a point about game plan/system which you would expect to improve year on year. The coaching group have shown the ability to adjust the way Carlton player year on year. When Voss first came to Carlton we were putrid defensively and in 2023 we looked great in that area but our offense suffered. In 2024, we looked much better offensively. In 2023, we were a very good stoppage team but did not do well in transition/off turnover. Then in 2024 we became one of the best transition teams in the comp.
The issue has been there has almost been overcorrections and a balance needs to be found in 2025. When we have focused on defence (2023) our offence suffered and then in 2024 it was the reverse. Same thing with the turnover/stoppage conundrum in 23'/24' where we became great in transition in 2024 but then couldn't defend stoppage despite being the best at it in the comp in 23'. I'm hoping (yes, dangerous word) that what we have gone through the last two years will all come together in 2025 and beyond to produce a more balanced and sustainable system that gives us the best chance of success.
Last edited:
- Mar 25, 2019
- 13,316
- 27,492
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I also think we're fairly well set up going into the future post Cripps, Newman, Docherty, Saad etc despite what oppo fans say.
Plenty of young kids coming through who most Blues fans have a lot of faith in going into this year and some top talents on the way in the draft via F/S + NGA.
The big concern will be when Curnow, Mckay and Weitering retire which should be a few years after the rest of that group.
Plenty of young kids coming through who most Blues fans have a lot of faith in going into this year and some top talents on the way in the draft via F/S + NGA.
The big concern will be when Curnow, Mckay and Weitering retire which should be a few years after the rest of that group.
boncer34
Formerly "Dos23"
Sweet FA 500 Games Played
The Scales Award for Essendon Poster of the Year
Essendon Player Sponsor 2022 - Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti and Archie Perkins
Essendon Player Sponsor 2024 - Archie Perkins and Nic Martin
Veteran
East Side Hawks - Sweet F.A.
Tasmanian Team
Essendon Player Sponsor 2023 - Archie Perkins and Nic Martin
If we take it at its most basic form maybe the 70% think a preliminary final is the peak of the list.
- Oct 25, 2001
- 14,814
- 12,323
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- IOM Gyms, Preston Nth End
Obviously we shall see, and while it's fun to tease our Blue friends any team with Cripps has to be taken seriously.
Not sure if I've said it in this thread but the "de-thugging" of footy means first year players can make a big impact without getting their heads caved in (Daicos and Sheezel head a gtoup of examples) so like a few clubs Carlton can expect some input from this year's draft.
Not sure if I've said it in this thread but the "de-thugging" of footy means first year players can make a big impact without getting their heads caved in (Daicos and Sheezel head a gtoup of examples) so like a few clubs Carlton can expect some input from this year's draft.
Halfway between Trump and Albo us what our US friends call "the taint".
Brisbane first jumped up as a 15+ win side in 2019
And they had remained at that 15+ win level in 2020 (14-3 in covid season) 2021, 2022, 2023.
The slow start they had in 2024 meant they made it tougher for themselves, but they have a list that is proven as being consistently good enough.
Unlike Brisbane, Carlton ain't made the jump to a 15+ win team. They have sat as a 12-13 win team.
Carlton fans hope they can make the leap to have a 15+ win top 4 season, other fans are starting to doubt whether they will.
- May 5, 2006
- 63,036
- 70,440
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Brisbane were also a pretty good for a team that were 0-3 then 2-5. They dominated games and didn't convert that momentum and chances. First 3 rounds were 67-66 scoring shots and 32 goals to 41. Their first genuinely poor performance of the year was Rd 8 vs GWS.
Compare that to Hawthorn who were pretty awful in their first 4-5 games and haven't won more than 8 games in a season for 4 years. Both teams went on a tear and finished on 14 wins but Brisbane obviously have a lot more exposed form.
Carlton are OK but other than a very lucky run in 2023 they haven't really done anything. It wouldn't be a huge shock if they won 14 or 15 games and snuck into the top 4, but it also wouldn't be a shock if they finished 10th. Scope for improvement is all relative to the teams around you.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Basically depends on whether Crippa and camper van wietering can stay on the park. If either get a long term injury it’ll be tough going for the mighty baggers.
- Oct 4, 2018
- 10,160
- 25,808
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
What exactly was "very lucky" about our 2023 run? We had to win 11 of our last 12 games to make it to the PF after sitting in 15th in Rd 15 - how does any team do that because of "luck"?
Last edited:
1. Port Adelaide bring half a team to Melbourne as they have their eyes on a top of the table clash against Collingwood the following week.
2. Dead rubber against Collingwood (who already had top 2 secured).
3. Petracca goal against Melbourne that wasn't paid.
4. Fewer scoring shots in each of their finals against Melbourne and Sydney.
You asked.
JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
- May 31, 2012
- 28,639
- 67,214
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Q: What is the probability of all that 'luck' occurring sans any reference to the 99.99% of the rest of the in game happennings you don't reference Fudgee...?
A: ZERO
- May 5, 2006
- 63,036
- 70,440
- AFL Club
- West Coast
You won two finals 11.8 to 9.14 then 11.7 to 9.17.
99 times out of 100 Melbourne win that semi.
