Toast Hawkins and Varcoe

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Re: It's about time.....

Varcoe and Hawkins are role players within our team, they are by no means elite, but having them fulfill a role in which they are suited is paramount to our form. That is why, although varcoe had a quiet game on the weekend he still deserves a mention as he filled that role off half back and was threatening....it made the hawks nervous to have him there and they couldn't really give him latitude. Likewise Hawkins, who delivered more, but it was the dangerous role which had to get the opposition paying close attention to him.

 

[theCATSfromHELL]

This thread is great.

It reminds me of how much I laughed at theYids shit OP. What a knob

 

[darren forssman]

the results speak for themselves, and have all year, when we've kicked a bag its been courtesy of a taller structure.
The smalls feed off the talls, its a prooven formula.

where were you after the crows and swans debacles?

whilst i dont disagree that the current structure of the team is at its ideal, maybe the extra scoring is from the delivery of the mids and half backers. quick long ball movement to get those key forwards one on one.

 

[David the Cat]

And Coaches / Match Committees never make mistakes do they??

He could be a great player if he lifted his work rate, which is rubbish.

1) Well if they are not wrong, you sure are. And as they have managed to select a team week after week that has got us to a PF, and with an 19/3 win loss ratio, I will go with them rather than with a person who is not privy to instructions and roles within the team structure and has never been in a MC or been a senior coach at this level.

2) Varcoe's work rate is not rubbish.

As always, we will agree to disagree about Varcoe, and I, along with many others, will continue to support him when he warrants it, if for no other reason to provide some balance against prejudiced posters who continually bag him no matter how he performs.

Have you ever made a positive statement about Varcoe?? ... I may have missed them...


PS: My sponsorship of Varcoe is irrelevant...I make it a habit to refrain from bagging my teams players ....it's just a policy of mine. Quite happy tho to stick it into opposition players. I certainly never use negative terms like "squib" to describe any AFL footballer because its totally inappropriate in my opinion.

 

[Vdubs]

1) Well if they are not wrong, you sure are. And as they have managed to select a team week after week that has got us to a PF, and with an 19/3 win loss ratio, I will go with them rather than with a person who is not privy to instructions and roles within the team structure and has never been in a MC or been a senior coach at this level.

2) Varcoe's work rate is not rubbish.

As always, we will agree to disagree about Varcoe, and I, along with many others, will continue to support him when he warrants it, if for no other reason to provide some balance against prejudiced posters who continually bag him no matter how he performs.

Have you ever made a positive statement about Varcoe?? ... I may have missed them...


PS: My sponsorship of Varcoe is irrelevant...I make it a habit to refrain from bagging my teams players ....it's just a policy of mine. Quite happy tho to stick it into opposition players. I certainly never use negative terms like "squib" to describe any AFL footballer because its totally inappropriate in my opinion.

You have just said everything I would like to have said, all your points are important, most notably your PS. We don't see eye to eye on all things, but obviously our values are similar on these issues.

 

[meto]

Re: It's about time.....

People were saying he was soft because he was - you might not pick it up on tv but I counted about 5 times when he didn't go hard and/or pulled out of a contest in the first 15 minutes when we needed to make a statement - his actions resulted in easy Hawk possessions. Now, I am actually a Varcoe supporter - he is a fantastic player and I think hes had an ok season. But 7 possessions, a couple of flashes of brilliance and all of the above spells an ordinary game. I just hope the coaches picked up his early efforts and reminded him what finals footy should be about. Hawkins was fantastic - theres some positivity for you.

'OK' then, so what are you suggesting they do with Varcoe in two weeks time?
I reckon he'll be far more effective late in the game when his type can exploit the openings that will emerge after a hard first half.
He's still a valuable inclusion for me, but I believe it's all about timing with Trav.
Before that just think he's got to many self concerns to fully enter the fray, best off leaving that to the naturals like Ling, Bundy, Joel etc.

It's not a personal slight to suggest his best position is substitute, because when the time is right he can be most effective as long as he uses the ball well after dashing off through the centre.... next time!
For the teams sake and Trav's best option IMO is sub.

Fellow Cats supporters we are eyeing another Premiership, no time for sentiment!

 

[PatrickBateman]

You have just said everything I would like to have said, all your points are important, most notably your PS. We don't see eye to eye on all things, but obviously our values are similar on these issues.

Ah... incorrect, you both sponsor the guy. Logic suggests you'll never say a bad word about him. And apparently I'm prejudice?? LOL!

 

[PatrickBateman]

Have you ever made a positive statement about Varcoe?? ... I may have missed them...

I just said he had a load of talent... + I've comment several times in a positive manor towards Varcoe. Feel free to look for yourself.

PS: My sponsorship of Varcoe is irrelevant...I make it a habit to refrain from bagging my teams players ....it's just a policy of mine. Quite happy tho to stick it into opposition players. I certainly never use negative terms like "squib" to describe any AFL footballer because its totally inappropriate in my opinion.

Ah.. so there it is. Not only do you contribute your $hard earned$ to an individual who is no doubt earning a lot more money than you anyway, you refuse to criticise a professional athlete who's job criteria consists of putting in 100% every week for 2 hours, no matter how bad he performs? Where is the sense in that, please fill me in??

 

[vegemite]

Re: It's about time.....

'OK' then, so what are you suggesting they do with Varcoe in two weeks time?
I reckon he'll be far more effective late in the game when his type can exploit the openings that will emerge after a hard first half.
He's still a valuable inclusion for me, but I believe it's all about timing with Trav.
Before that just think he's got to many self concerns to fully enter the fray, best off leaving that to the naturals like Ling, Bundy, Joel etc.

It's not a personal slight to suggest his best position is substitute, because when the time is right he can be most effective as long as he uses the ball well after dashing off through the centre.... next time!
For the teams sake and Trav's best option IMO is sub.

Fellow Cats supporters we are eyeing another Premiership, no time for sentiment!

-
-
I'm not saying to drop Varcoe after one crap performance, and there is no replacement that cries out for his spot at the moment - assuming Corey gets Menzels spot, Milburn would be the only consideration and there is a balance problem with that. He offers something unique that Stokes, Christensen, Byrnes etc don't. Maybe he deserves a run as the sub and your comments relating to him having more time when the heat is slightly off have some merit.

I just find it very disappointing when league footballers don't go hard and we pay the price because of it - I am less critical of crap disposal, dropped marks, being beaten by a better opponent, trying but just having one of those days, etc and I think we all should be.

 

[vinum coupe]

Guys, he can't play as a sub !

2 reasons.

1/ I'm not sure he has the ability to hop straight into a game and perform. History is littered with players like that. There are many more players in our squad that can provide that impact.

2/ He is playing a running / opportunist game. He needs lots of minutes in order to find an 'opportunity'


Really he only needs to break the opposition open once a quarter.
Maybe twice per quarter from Wojo.

That's all. By the way I thought he did a few good things on Friday and that run and that tackle / tap are toast worthy but his game as a whole isn't.

 

[David the Cat]

I just said he had a load of talent... + I've comment several times in a positive manor towards Varcoe. Feel free to look for yourself.



Ah.. so there it is. Not only do you contribute your $hard earned$ to an individual who is no doubt earning a lot more money than you anyway, you refuse to criticise a professional athlete who's job criteria consists of putting in 100% every week for 2 hours, no matter how bad he performs? Where is the sense in that, please fill me in??

I have criticised TV on occasions....note the GC game.....perhaps you missed that. Feel free to look for yourself.

If you think that being a professional footballer has a job criteria of putting in 100% for 2 hours every week then you know even less than I thought.

Enjoy Varcoe's continued selection in the side. I expect it will continue, injury notwithstanding. Every week his selection must stick in your craw, though you must be getting used to it by now.

 

[Cattery]

I thought TV was ok on the weekend...not brilliant but did some good things at various times during the game. ......

Fully agree with one statement there Dave, he was certainly not brilliant.

Don't want this turning into another 15 page "he's a champion" "he's a dud" debate, but would like to ask you in all seriousness, if you thought his game on Friday night was "ok" and "serviceble" on the back of three decent pieces of play over four quarters of footy, then just how badly does he have to go before you'll say he was poor?

Missed tackles, opposition players waltzing around him with ridiculous ease on numerous occasions, and all that on the back of seven disposals at 57% efficiency.

Have to agree with your mate PB on this one, for a player in his role, without a direct opponent most of the time, seven possessions is not acceptable.

1) Well if they are not wrong, you sure are. And as they have managed to select a team week after week that has got us to a PF, and with an 19/3 win loss ratio, I will go with them rather than with a person who is not privy to instructions and roles within the team structure and has never been in a MC or been a senior coach at this level.

Never really understood this argument to be honest, player X, Y or Z gets selected so that's the end of the debate.
It would be stupid to suggest we have better knowledge/insight into what's happening within the club because we clearly don't, but cast your mind back to 08 when the MC and the Coach played no small role in costing us a flag and you'd probably have to agree they aren't infallible.

 

[Vdubs]

Ah... incorrect, you both sponsor the guy. Logic suggests you'll never say a bad word about him. And apparently I'm prejudice?? LOL!

I sponsor TV for many reasons, not because he is our best player, but partly because he looked like a guy whose confidence appears questionable, and partly because he can be exhilarating, and when he eventually makes it as a consistently elite player, I'd prefer him to be a Cat. Not that our token sponsorship would have a great impact on TV, but it lets him know that he is valued. And judging by his response and general demeanour, and from inner sanctum people, he is a really high quality person.
But, no, he is not a candidate for BOG every week, but every week there is something special associated with TV. Every week bar about 2 this year, I,ve been glad he was in the team. Maybe a couple of GeneralSoreness weeks could have helped, but we ALL know he has been making up for lost time all year.

Hawkins is good enough to keep out Mooney for this finals series and that in itself is a statement

 

[Vdubs]

I just said he had a load of talent... + I've comment several times in a positive manor towards Varcoe. Feel free to look for yourself.



Ah.. so there it is. Not only do you contribute your $hard earned$ to an individual who is no doubt earning a lot more money than you anyway, you refuse to criticise a professional athlete who's job criteria consists of putting in 100% every week for 2 hours, no matter how bad he performs? Where is the sense in that, please fill me in??

You realise, I hope, they do GPS monitoring of players, and, under instruction, TV covers more distance than most , if not all, our team. He evidently is instructed to run far and wide all the time, as he is an elite runner, to receive the ball and wreak havoc with his metres gained. And he is our best at that. Every week,he comes off stuffed. He does not need to do anything else, except finish off his his work with a goal.

FWIW, that sponsorship does not benefit TV directly at all


I can feel deja-vu all over again

 

[David the Cat]

You realise, I hope, they do GPS monitoring of players, and, under instruction, TV covers more distance than most , if not all, our team. He evidently is instructed to run far and wide all the time, as he is an elite runner, to receive the ball and wreak havoc with his metres gained. And he is our best at that. Every week,he comes off stuffed. He does not need to do anything else, except finish off his his work with a goal.

FWIW, that sponsorship does not benefit TV directly at all


I can feel deja-vu all over again

So can I! Time to unsubscribe....people see what they want to see and dont see what they don't want to see. That includes me and you.

Raving on about it endlessly is futile...I will continue to support ALL our players........and that means bagging any Geelong player...if you can be bothered you will see that a constant with me........bagging them isn't in my DNA..........wasn't that a theme at one time?

 

[Vdubs]

So can I! Time to unsubscribe....people see what they want to see and dont see what they don't want to see. That includes me and you.

Raving on about it endlessly is futile...I will continue to support ALL our players........and that means bagging any Geelong player...if you can be bothered you will see that a constant with me........bagging them isn't in my DNA..........wasn't that a theme at one time?

Sounds like you need a good massage, a therapeutic massage

 

[vinum coupe]

VD. You may have some knowledge of this.
Is there still a rule whereby only a certain number can carry GPS? I think it was 5 or so.

Can the whole team carry them? Have you noticed anything at nth?

 

[David the Cat]

Fully agree with one statement there Dave, he was certainly not brilliant.

Don't want this turning into another 15 page "he's a champion" "he's a dud" debate, but would like to ask you in all seriousness, if you thought his game on Friday night was "ok" and "serviceble" on the back of three decent pieces of play over four quarters of footy, then just how badly does he have to go before you'll say he was poor?

Missed tackles, opposition players waltzing around him with ridiculous ease on numerous occasions, and all that on the back of seven disposals at 57% efficiency.

Have to agree with your mate PB on this one, for a player in his role, without a direct opponent most of the time, seven possessions is not acceptable.



Never really understood this argument to be honest, player X, Y or Z gets selected so that's the end of the debate.
It would be stupid to suggest we have better knowledge/insight into what's happening within the club because we clearly don't, but cast your mind back to 08 when the MC and the Coach played no small role in costing us a flag and you'd probably have to agree they aren't infallible.

I didnt think he was poor....just ok. He did some nice things but I agree we need him to get more of it. I thought a couple of others were poorer tbh...nevertheless he is a valuable player...and an important part of this side. I also concede he hasn't reached the heights this year that I thought he would...his consistency has been lacking. Nevertheless, he has contributed, and I dont see too many changes to the line-up from here...injuries notwithstanding. Lets both hope he showcases the brilliance we have seen at times this year on a more consistent basis. He is certainly capable.

As for the argument you dont understand...he has been selected in 23 of 24 games.....therefore a constant in a winning combination..he wouldnt have been if he wasnt meeting the requirements of MC or coach. Are you suggesting they are picking him because he is a nice guy?

Comparing the 08 coach and MC with the present one is fine to support a point but is really irrelevant with respect to 2011. Whether the Mc and coach cost us a flag in 2008 is another argument, but Scott and his team seem to have done everything right so far, and while I agree no-one is fallible, they can only be judged on results to date, and thats something no-one can argue with.

Like VD said...this is becoming way to familiar......so thats all from me...... the argument has been done to death.

 

[darren forssman]

Sounds like you need a good massage, a therapeutic massage

happy ending?

 

[meto]

Due to the poor perform of 7 disposals, could we possibly mount a case for Chris Scott tapping him on the shoulder as he did to Darren Milburn last week?
Last weeks game was of the kind that'll do just that for you. Afterall we're not just playin for 4 points now!

Varcoe has played himself into that possible scenario come selection, although seniority and regularity may well be his saving grace, realistically that's about where he is right now, IMO.
Scott may consider the injection of youthful enthusiasm in the form of Stephen Motlop (has been in form). Plenty of speed and an opportunistic goal scorer, to cover Menzel and add some spice up fwd.
But I doubt it!

All depends on how much Scott wants to shake it up, but I believe he's reluctent to change what he already has, winning form will be Trav's saving grace, but the thought must be there.

Going off the subject slightly, even Byrnes didn't play badly against Collingwood when he was subbed on, just had to make way for others, the guys form looked good, abit sad for him!

 

[nohairandfair]

While Varcoe hasn't taken the next step this year and established better consistancy, he is still a better option than Byrnes and Motlop right now.

The coaches will most likely back him in; hopefully he returns their faith.

 

[meto]

While Varcoe hasn't taken the next step this year and established better consistancy, he is still a better option than Byrnes and Motlop right now.

The coaches will most likely back him in; hopefully he returns their faith.

He needs to stepup, otherwise his gig in the big one will come under serious review, if not already.

How can you say he's necessarily a better option??........ based on his return last weekend he's not.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Enjoy Varcoe's continued selection in the side. I expect it will continue, injury notwithstanding. Every week his selection must stick in your craw, though you must be getting used to it by now.

Right now that's all you have isn't it? Mark Blake got picked for years while we were winning, deserved selection?? Most say no now and said no then! Ask yourself if we would have kept Mumford and / or improved West with more games? Sounds like a simple win win to me, too bad the MC saw otherwise and got it WRONG! The MC make errors, Varcoe has had a below par season and nothing has been done to refresh him and harness his talent... that in my mind is failure. Enjoy the rose coloured glasses David.

 

[PatrickBateman]

I didnt think he was poor....just ok. He did some nice things but I agree we need him to get more of it. I thought a couple of others were poorer tbh...

OK, what would it take for you to deem Varcoe's game poor then? 5 touches? 4? Lets not forget this was a game we had control of for most of the night.

Who exactly was poorer than Varcoe on the night?

 

[you pick one]

OK, what would it take for you to deem Varcoe's game poor then? 5 touches? 4? Lets not forget this was a game we had control of for most of the night.

Who exactly was poorer than Varcoe on the night?

If touches are the criteria here then Scarlett