Toast Hawkins and Varcoe

[PatrickBateman]

If touches are the criteria here then Scarlett

You're absolutely right, a full back should always manage to get more of the ball than a floating wing / half back , yeah? Especially in a game we control for the most part. Spud.

Varcoe - 1 tackle. Lazy, simple as that.

 

[ADA23]

Cant decide whether to put cream or ice cream on my humble pie

Well played by both when it matterred

 

[meto]

You're absolutely right, a full back should always manage to get more of the ball than a floating wing / half back , yeah? Especially in a game we control for the most part. Spud.

Varcoe - 1 tackle. Lazy, simple as that.

Bout that tackle! physically inept to be in the action, more than likely.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Bout that tackle! physically inept to be in the action, more than likely.

You and your mate know absolutely nothing about structures and roles that certain players play within the team game plan.
Enough said.

I suppose you expect the impossible: every player gather 30 touches and kick 4 goals a game.

 

[PatrickBateman]

You and your mate know absolutely nothing about structures and roles that certain players play within the team game plan.
Enough said.

I suppose you expect the impossible: every player gather 30 touches and kick 4 goals a game.

Lame, just so lame.

Are you saying that Varcoe getting more involved in the game(more touches / tackles) is not possible due to his role in the team?? You guys really are giving the bottom of the barrel an awful good scraping.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

You and your mate know absolutely nothing about structures and roles that certain players play within the team game plan.
Enough said.

I suppose you expect the impossible: every player gather 30 touches and kick 4 goals a game.

Whatever you do mate, dont try talk about modern team structures and specific roles for players within those game plans.

For some people this has nothing to do with footy really. Its just a petty emotional gripefest. I mean apparently Josh Hunt is a chance to win the Brownlow!! But dont let reality get in the way of a good story.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Lame, just so lame.

Are you saying that Varcoe getting more involved in the game(more touches / tackles) is not possible due to his role in the team?? You guys really are giving the bottom of the barrel an awful good scraping.

You sure your not a Collingwood troll in disguise.
1.you didn't comprehend my post.
2.You seem to have little or no knowledge of modern football.

Your entitled to your rubbish opinions I suppose

 

[meto]

You sure your not a Collingwood troll in disguise.
1.you didn't comprehend my post.
2.You seem to have little or no knowledge of modern football.

Your entitled to your rubbish opinions I suppose

At the end of the day I guess all he's saying is, "just go get a kick"
Get involved, please Trav!!!

 

[nohairandfair]

He needs to stepup, otherwise his gig in the big one will come under serious review, if not already.

How can you say he's necessarily a better option??........ based on his return last weekend he's not.

He had a crappy game last week, no arguments there.

It's too late to experiment with Motlop and Byrnes is an opportunistic small forward with an eye for a goal, but a bit one-dimensional when comparing him to Trav.

Trav has the better footy smarts and at least runs in straight lines and can deliver the ball to advantage.

We've all seen the bursts where he can light it up and I'm confident he would raise more concern and subsequent forward-planning from opposition coaches than Byrnes and/or Motlop.

However he needs to steel himself for a big couple of weeks and bring it when it matters.

 

[Vdubs]

Due to the poor perform of 7 disposals, could we possibly mount a case for Chris Scott tapping him on the shoulder as he did to Darren Milburn last week?
Last weeks game was of the kind that'll do just that for you. Afterall we're not just playin for 4 points now!

Varcoe has played himself into that possible scenario come selection, although seniority and regularity may well be his saving grace, realistically that's about where he is right now, IMO.
Scott may consider the injection of youthful enthusiasm in the form of Stephen Motlop (has been in form). Plenty of speed and an opportunistic goal scorer, to cover Menzel and add some spice up fwd.
But I doubt it!

All depends on how much Scott wants to shake it up, but I believe he's reluctent to change what he already has, winning form will be Trav's saving grace, but the thought must be there.

Going off the subject slightly, even Byrnes didn't play badly against Collingwood when he was subbed on, just had to make way for others, the guys form looked good, abit sad for him!

Are you serious about Motlop? Form? When?
As recently as 2 weeks ago? In the seniors? Cos that's when Varcoe was near BOG against Pies, though that game doesn't count.
Whe was the last time Motlop would have been noticeable in the firsts? Not that he is not worthy of selection, but there is no comparison with TV.

 

[maxy87]

At the end of the day I guess all he's saying is, "just go get a kick"
Get involved, please Trav!!!

I think we all agree with that.

It's just that it seems you and the American psycho think that every player must be like Selwood, Bartel, Corey and Kelly. They play their role and each player has specific qualities they bring to the team. You have engine room players that do grunt work, creative types like Stevie J (who can be very frustrating!) and you have finishers. I see Trav as somewhere between creative and finisher

I mean, do we expect Selwood to break a line and move at breathtaking pace toward our forwardline, or sprint up a wing and into space to provide a link? It's a specific role and yes I think it's fair to say I'd like to see a little more of it from trav but it's unfair to call him lazy or soft etc.

 

[meto]

He had a crappy game last week, no arguments there.

It's too late to experiment with Motlop and Byrnes is an opportunistic small forward with an eye for a goal, but a bit one-dimensional when comparing him to Trav.

Trav has the better footy smarts and at least runs in straight lines and can deliver the ball to advantage.

We've all seen the bursts where he can light it up and I'm confident he would raise more concern and subsequent forward-planning from opposition coaches than Byrnes and/or Motlop.

However he needs to steel himself for a big couple of weeks and bring it when it matters.

Your reasoning makes very good sense if we believe the inability of the others, you've even got me thinking his inclusion is justified on the basis of your assumptions.
But how long do we wait, do we let the guy play a Granny and do the same, contributing to a loss in the big one?

We all know full well, as reminded frequently by the media, that the club probably should have 3 flags from this era, nothing in football would please me more than to see the old guys go out on that grand high note.

If he underperforms in the prelim why should he get the privilige of playing in the big one, surely we have one player capable of replacing him if all he contributes is 7 disposals.
If this continues, he could be handed the subs vest, its up to him to show some form against the eagles or blues.

Say, 15 possessions, and a couple of goal assists with some dashes throught he centre and he's in for mine.
He can do that, not to much to ask!

 

[PatrickBateman]

You sure your not a Collingwood troll in disguise.
1.you didn't comprehend my post.
2.You seem to have little or no knowledge of modern football.

Your entitled to your rubbish opinions I suppose

Your post was rubbish, that's why. Of course no one expects Varcoe to get 34 touches a game and 4 goals...

If you think I do believe the above, please quote any post where I've indicated anything remotely similar.

You seem to be throwing in the 'modern football' excuse in there again and again, yet with no explanation?? Why? To excuse Varcoe for having 7 touches and 1 tackle in a FINAL? Do you follow the idea of this thread and believe he deserves praise for his game in the circumstances?

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Hawkins was fantastic and a real presence and Varcoe had some vital touches and plays, not at his best but on the back of a very good month of footy, so both deserve some plaudits for turning their seasons around in recent times.

Does any more really need to be said?

 

[Partridge]

Your reasoning makes very good sense if we believe the inability of the others, you've even got me thinking his inclusion is justified on the basis of your assumptions.
But how long do we wait, do we let the guy play a Granny and do the same, contributing to a loss in the big one?

They already have, and he already has, in 2008. Second worst on ground behind Stokes. Wasn't much better in 2009. Aside from the handpass to Chappy made very little contribution.

If he underperforms in the prelim why should he get the privilige of playing in the big one, surely we have one player capable of replacing him if all he contributes is 7 disposals. If this continues, he could be handed the subs vest, its up to him to show some form against the eagles or blues.

Say, 15 possessions, and a couple of goal assists with some dashes throught he centre and he's in for mine. He can do that, not to much to ask!

I think it's a matter of workrate with Varcoe. The skills aren't in dispute. The effort and performances (especially against quality opposition) are. I doubt a 7 possession game would get any criticism if he was laying 7 tackles alongside it. But when you don't get much of the ball or provide any physical pressure some criticism is warranted.

 

[meto]

They already have, and he already has, in 2008. Second worst on ground behind Stokes. Wasn't much better in 2009. Aside from the handpass to Chappy made very little contribution.




I think it's a matter of workrate with Varcoe. The skills aren't in dispute. The effort and performances (especially against quality opposition) are. I doubt a 7 possession game would get any criticism if he was laying 7 tackles alongside it. But when you don't get much of the ball or provide any physical pressure some criticism is warranted.

Work rate? Getting the ball at all cost may have something to do with it, his history in hard games isn't comforting, that's for sure.
If he goes out, who do we have to replace, or is his role expendable?

 

[Catman]

Trav and Hawk are going nowhere, even if they struggle and we still win.

Unless they get injured, of course and touch wood that doesn't happen.

 

[meto]

Trav and Hawk are going nowhere, even if they struggle and we still win.

Unless they get injured, of course and touch wood that doesn't happen.

I can understand you saying Hawk.

 

[Footy Smarts]

This calling for Varcoe to be dropped is really pretty ridiculous right now. Looking purely at disposals and deciding he didn't do enough is simply stupid. Here's 3 reasons he shouldn't be dropped.

1. He was brilliant against Collingwood. 2 goals, 4 goals assists, 9 inside 50s and generally used it really well. Dropping him 1 game after that's just stupid.

2. His performance on Friday was crucial despite not getting much of it. Friday was a heavily contested, low possession game so relying on possession counts is pretty pointless. I mean Chapman was instrumental particularly in the 2nd quarter and he only got 18 touches which is pretty low for him. Also because of the contested nature of the game there wasn't much open play which is Varcoe's main role. More importantly than his possession count were 2 key pieces of play.

Firstly when he burnt Puopolo and should've kicked the goal. We were on the back foot and looked in trouble but that piece of play gave the whole team a huge lift. He didn't finish which was disappointing but seeing him take on the game in a key moment shows confidence which he's lacked at times.

Secondly was the tackle and knock on a couple of minutes later that led to Pods' goal. That was perhaps the most crucial piece of play in the match. Huge moment, contested ball and he not only wins it but sets us away going forward. It was the catalyst for our game winning surge. For that effort he only gets a tackle on the stats sheet but there's no doubt that it was game changing.

3. There's nobody better to replace him with. Even if you think he should be dropped (which in itself is pretty ludicrous) he's still clearly a better option than anybody else. Stokes is more a forward than winger, doesn't give us that explosiveness and isn't as good in the contest. Byrnes is the obvious choice but Varcoe's done more than Byrnes (admittedly he hasn't had many chances), there's got to be fitness concerns and Varcoe's a better user of the footy.

The only other option is a youngster like Motlop who will be coming straight into a finals series without having played an AFL game in a fair while and never having really done much when he has played. Varcoe's clearly the best option.

I agree with people that I'd like to see Varcoe be more consistent and have a greater impact across a whole game. But just because he comes in and out of games doesn't mean he hasn't done very important things recently. He's a weapon and he causes more worries for oppositions than any other option would in his role.

 

[Partridge]

Work rate? Getting the ball at all cost may have something to do with it, his history in hard games isn't comforting, that's for sure.
If he goes out, who do we have to replace, or is his role expendable?

Well translate "work rate" as effort and desperation. Agree he needs to lift in finals, no doubt at all.

I'd say when Varcoe's getting 7 touches a game he's very expendable. Byrnes could do his job in a second.

Continue to be bemused/amazed by how feverishly he's defended on here. It's a simple equation, when the ball is in dispute you have to put your body in to get it. That's all we ask of every player. Varcoe on occasion has been unwilling to do that. If he does put his body in there won't be any complaints.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Varcoe is going nowhere, he has had a great back half to the season and let's not forget that he has stepped up in big finals matches already, prime example being the 08 preliminary. He fills a role within the team.....that role at the moment is to provide drive from the half back, midfield running forward...he is doing that and he should have had a couple of goals to his name against the hawks. So what if he only got a handful of touches, I was there live and clearly noticed him providing countless options around the contest....it was wet, we kicked long rather than seeking the outside option. I guarantee that he will keep his place and put in some big efforts over the coming weeks

 

[meto]

If we're playing the hawks, I wouldn't play him, possibily sub.

 

[vealesy]

Will be crucial to chase down the wce fast break on the wing.

And breaking through the zoned fwd 50.

Im expecting him to poll mvp votes next week.

 

[thegerman]

Work rate? Getting the ball at all cost may have something to do with it, his history in hard games isn't comforting, that's for sure.
If he goes out, who do we have to replace, or is his role expendable?

And again, just like we do with Mackie, we are valuing how many possessions one gets, not the actual value of those possessions.

If Trav got the ball only 5 times, but laid 5 tackles, 2 of those holding the ball in the forward line, he's doing his job. Especially if he kicked a few goals too.

 

[meto]

And again, just like we do with Mackie, we are valuing how many possessions one gets, not the actual value of those possessions.

If Trav got the ball only 5 times, but laid 5 tackles, 2 of those holding the ball in the forward line, he's doing his job. Especially if he kicked a few goals too.

But he didn't, did he!

Thing is I believe Travis and Wojak are very important players for their run and carry next week, I just hope he lifts for the team and the occasion. Both can have a big impact on the outcome if they seize the opportunity to create scoring opportunities.