Autopsy Hawks lose another close one to dees

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Simon_Nesbit said:
When you are already thin in the midfield, you lose your #1 (Mitchell) for the season, your #2 (O'Meara) is a long-term injury maintenance issue and your #5 (Worpel) and #6 (Cousins) are still developing their tanks the midfield battle will always be an issue. Howe and Shiels are good "B" graders at best - they cannot be expected to win a midfield by themselves against a dominant opposing ruck. Mitchell would have made a difference here.

Early on, we were full of run - Smith, Scully, Henderson - even Worpel and O'Meara were everywhere. Importantly, McEvoy was matching Gawn around the contest - the Dees onballers were struggling to get hands on the ball, and we were winning both the inside and outside game. By the time Smith went off late in the 1st, Gawn had already started to show ascendancy over McEvoy, and our "B" team rotations were being comprehensively beaten. It was our outside run/rebound that was giving us attacking momentum.

From the end of the first quarter onwards - McEvoy was absolutely thrashed. Gawn was tremendous, giving silver service to his onballers. Harmes was exceptional in tagging O'Meara out of the contest, then spreading to receive, very Ling-esque in it's application. Shiels/Howe were busy trying to stop their opponent, whilst Worpel/Shiels were caught trying to win the ball, whilst their opponent was being spoon-fed by Gawn. We needed to go full-defensive, stop trying to be aggressive (McEvoy cannot direct ruck taps even if he is on top, but is usually decent at stopping an opponent), and stop Melbourne's inside dominance.

Instead, we continued to play an attacking game, bringing the Demons outside players into the action - exposing Brand (especially) in defence. Given the quantity and uncontested nature of the Demons forward entries, I thought Brand and TOB (especially) acquitted themselves well - certainly better than could be expected from their previous performances.

After half time we did adjust, played a far more defensively orientated onball unit, but the damage was done - Gawn was in ultimate control, his onballers could attack without consideration for any loss, and virtually every "contest" became an easy takeaway for the Ds. We desperately needed McEvoy to stand up to Gawn, but he didn't/couldn't and without a superstar inside ball-winner (Tom), with JOM subject to a tight tag at the contest, and with Shiels/Howe unable to generate any drive we were slow and reactive.

Then, as our running options depleted/disappeared, we resorted to the "long bomb to the wing" tactic - seeking McEvoy to at least provide a contest. Unfortunately, more often than not he took Gawn with him, completely nullifying the advantage and success Lewis was having in transitional play. Knowing Gawn was there and would beat McEvoy, Lewis' opponent could now almost forget about the ball and simply nullify Lewis as a marking option.

In retrospect, we probably needed Ceglar to come in, just to physically work over Gawn in tandem with McEvoy. Like Goldstein and other dominant (tall) tap rucks, we need to push them to physical exhaustion so they become ineffectual.

I had us 6-1 at this point pre-season - even after the Mitchell injury I thought we would be at worse 5-2. Despite that start, I thought we would only win 14 games for the season (12 post-mitchell). At 3-4, I think we are on a razor's edge for finals - we now need to 'steal' 1-2 extra wins. The season is close enough for that to be a possibility, so finals are not (yet) out of our reach, but the season is about to get a lot harder from here on in.

I think Worpel needs a rest, perhaps with Cousins back - but we are so thin in the midfield that we cannot run out games effectively, and any injury is enough to shut down the 'machine'.

Curiously, I only think we are 2 players off being top-4 competitive (Mitchell and ?), and perhaps 3 off being an outside premiership contender. We still have the squad to make finals - but we must find a way to get our fitness to a level we can play out whole quarters and games - at the moment we are probably 10 minutes short of just finishing a game, let alone increasing the amount of time we can play as a hard-running, aggressive unit. I doubt that can be made up during the season, but there are so many "mediocre" teams, that some will still play finals.
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Yep. Good post. Although i'm not too fussed about missing finals. With a view to future my hope is we settle at least any 2 of Lewis, Brand and TOB into key posts by the end of the year, get some more experience pumped into Cousins, Moore, Worpel, Scrimshaw and have a good look at guys like Glass, Miles, Ollie and maybe Jiath to see where they can fit in going forward (if at all).
 

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How Scully has been receiving any criticism for his year so far is head scratching to say the least, we have not seen the best of him by any means but the only times we have looked to move the ball well and cleanly is has been off the back of him. He had a brilliant play early in the game yesterday that lead to a goal and probably my highlight of the year so far was his run from the defensive 50 all the way up the ground getting multiple touches and delivering the ball up forward to Wingard against Carlton (shame he missed it).

Coming back from a serious injury, in a new team, with an awful midfield and he has been solid. He will be great with a year under his belt and a more competitive midfield.
 
macdaddio said:
In the eyes of some delusional supporters it just gave them false hope that we’re a top 4 team when we’re not really a top 8 team. !
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Our current list is closer to bottom 4 than top 4 but like others have said IF we can get certain players through free agency or trade things can quickly change.

We won't be charging back up the ladder with the youth we have.
 
Abasi said:
Which ones? Some are carrying niggles, some make errors under pressure, some are declining. There is no black and white answer.
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Let's not become a group of supporters that make excuses for our players, especially senior leaders. This 'carrying niggles' line has popped up in recent weeks and it really irks me. Every team has players carrying niggles. It is not an excuse. If their niggles stop them from sticking tackles, running hard and hitting simple targets then they should not be selected.
 
SA HAWK said:
Our current list is closer to bottom 4 than top 4 but like others have said IF we can get certain players through free agency or trade things can quickly change.
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There is no doubt that based on performance we are a lot closer to bottom 4 than top 4. I don't think that necessarily equates with a bottom 4 list though. There are a bunch of reasons a team can be performing at bottom level despite the list quality being above that. We have some problems at the moment that are leading the sum to be producing well below its parts. Some of those issues are form related, some are underdone players, some are players fitting into a new system, some is our best player out for most of the year, and some are holes we haven't filled yet. All those problems are combining to our system breaking down, and when the system breaks, everyone looks shit, even the players that are not in terrible form.

Being 2-3 players short of the list we need to compete is a problem, but it is not at all the only problem. If Wingard and Scully were playing closer to their peak form we'd probably be in the 8 on that alone, given we've lost two close games by under a kick. If Gunston was at his consistent best instead of only just starting to show glimpses, we'd probably also be in the 8. If Mitchell hadn't broken his leg , we'd have beaten Melbourne comfortably, and would be sitting in the 8. There is no way we capitulate in the midfield like we did after they tag our best mid if Mitchell and O'Meara are both playing.

We are unlikely to compete seriously with the list holes (you can't have a 5 game player as your main KPF and expect to be a flag contender), but we should have been able to make finals if everything else went right. It hasn't, and finals looks a long way off right now, but if you look at the big picture, I think it is overly harsh to say we have a bottom 4 list, even if the current performance levels are consistent with that assessment.
 
So I just watched the game for the first time. Didn’t think it was a bad game & we did what we usually do & lost it in the 3rd qtr.

I had read the thread before watching the game & expected to see a shambles... aren’t there some drama queens!
We didn’t play well, yes but it wasn’t a disaster.
I’ll be quick...
Brand played well as did Timmy.

Lewis needs to be used. It’s criminal how little we look for him.

Gunston has to play forward.

Wingard has to play HHF/mid... I don’t care if he’s unfit he had an impact when he was up the ground. Poor coaching to keep him deep.

Scully is still finding his way & will keep improving

Lewis & Moore need to keep getting games.

Impey & Hardwick were awesome

We lost he game when Chad dropped a difficult mark in the last moments... possibly.
We definitely lost the game when the umpire didn’t pay the throw from frost directly after the dropped mark.
Roughy would have had the kick to win the game fir the throw if it was paid.

Unfortunately we lost.

I will stick to my guns on the selection of a captain... McEvoy is a warrior & a leader & could have seen out the 2-3 years til Mitchell or Jaeger stood up as that’s how I see this with Shiels & Gunston overlooked.
Smith is not captain material & IMO the footage of Stratts slapping his legs having a great old time listening to tunes just doesn’t do it for me at all.
The guy shouldn’t even be getting a game on form & yet here we are with him as captain.
The choice has been made & as supporters we now must Suck it up...

Tough run of games ahead but I look forward to seeing more of Brand, TO, Lewis, Moore, Worpel, Wingard & Scully settling into the year as I think all have more to offer
 
PhatHQ said:
So I just watched the game for the first time. Didn’t think it was a bad game & we did what we usually do & lost it in the 3rd qtr.

I had read the thread before watching the game & expected to see a shambles... aren’t there some drama queens!
We didn’t play well, yes but it wasn’t a disaster.
I’ll be quick...
Brand played well as did Timmy.

Lewis needs to be used. It’s criminal how little we look for him.

Gunston has to play forward.

Wingard has to play HHF/mid... I don’t care if he’s unfit he had an impact when he was up the ground. Poor coaching to keep him deep.

Scully is still finding his way & will keep improving

Lewis & Moore need to keep getting games.

Impey & Hardwick were awesome

We lost he game when Chad dropped a difficult mark in the last moments... possibly.
We definitely lost the game when the umpire didn’t pay the throw from frost directly after the dropped mark.
Roughy would have had the kick to win the game fir the throw if it was paid.

Unfortunately we lost.

I will stick to my guns on the selection of a captain... McEvoy is a warrior & a leader & could have seen out the 2-3 years til Mitchell or Jaeger stood up as that’s how I see this with Shiels & Gunston overlooked.
Smith is not captain material & IMO the footage of Stratts slapping his legs having a great old time listening to tunes just doesn’t do it for me at all.
The guy shouldn’t even be getting a game on form & yet here we are with him as captain.
The choice has been made & as supporters we now must Suck it up...

Tough run of games ahead but I look forward to seeing more of Brand, TO, Lewis, Moore, Worpel, Wingard & Scully settling into the year as I think all have more to offer
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Look I'm gonna have to agree here re Stratts. It's coming across as too casual while we're losing. Wouldn't be a problem if we were winning. But we're not.

In his defence, he gave the club a warning. Said he'd be himself and not change a thing about his personality. He's stuck true to this, to be fair. And we knew he would.
 

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halfback dasher said:
Cannot believe the negativity toward a club that's in the middle of a list reshape , who mind you has lost 4 games by an av losing margin of around 10 points .
A team again mind you who's been decimated by injuries this yr .
Just don't get it !!
Is it true that by in large our supporters ARE that delusional that they think we are exempt from mid table performances .....that somehow we have something " magic " that other clubs don't have ....


Sorry , but IMO we are where we should be right now so I'd suggest you back us in rather than tear us down people ....
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There has been some emotional reactions sure. But we are not where we should be at all. We have played two teams that will likely play finals and have gone 3-4. This included just getting over the line against Carlton. Within two months, we may very well find ourselves down in the bottom four.

Yes we lost Mitchell, but no club should be so heavily reliant on one player. He alone doesn't take this group from our current performance to a finals contender.

The reason people are frustrated mate is the narrative, by our trading actions, is that the club felt we were closer to contending than not. To this respect, the season is in massive danger of being an absolute failure if we do end up bottom six or worse.

Even without Mitchell, the pass mark has to be perhaps just missing finals. At present, this looks really unlikely and we should allow people to judge the season accordingly.

As another posted mentioned, our strategy and 'reshape' as you say, is still so heavily reliant on bringing in Free Agents. It will be a massive off-season for the club.
 
it broke my heart.... got some good young fellas coming up.....
all those damn behinds... wouldnt have mattered about wingard stuffing up or t he maggot not penalising the throw if we could just kick straight. We will never do anything about the maggots but gee Clarko get em out t here practising their kicking
 
OnceKicked50 said:
There has been some emotional reactions sure. But we are not where we should be at all. We have played two teams that will likely play finals and have gone 3-4. This included just getting over the line against Carlton. Within two months, we may very well find ourselves down in the bottom four.

Yes we lost Mitchell, but no club should be so heavily reliant on one player. He alone doesn't take this group from our current performance to a finals contender.

The reason people are frustrated mate is the narrative, by our trading actions, is that the club felt we were closer to contending than not. To this respect, the season is in massive danger of being an absolute failure if we do end up bottom six or worse.

Even without Mitchell, the pass mark has to be perhaps just missing finals. At present, this looks really unlikely and we should allow people to judge the season accordingly.

As another posted mentioned, our strategy and 'reshape' as you say, is still so heavily reliant on bringing in Free Agents. It will be a massive off-season for the club.
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To be fair mate, we ARE massively reliant on Tom, and it's a blessing he is out. That way we can get massive game time in the middle to guys like Worps and Cuz and develop some DEPTH. Otherwise it's just the Tom and JOM show and we're screwed if they get injured again.

The reliance was unhealthy. And we're seeing the result of that now. Worps being the main beneficiary. Its midfield mins he wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
 
halfback dasher said:
Cannot believe the negativity toward a club that's in the middle of a list reshape , who mind you has lost 4 games by an av losing margin of around 10 points .
A team again mind you who's been decimated by injuries this yr .
Just don't get it !!
Is it true that by in large our supporters ARE that delusional that they think we are exempt from mid table performances .....that somehow we have something " magic " that other clubs don't have ....


Sorry , but IMO we are where we should be right now so I'd suggest you back us in rather than tear us down people ....
Click to expand...

If you think the last two weeks have been mid table performances then you are sorely mistaken. If we play that footy for the remainder of the season then we will be bottom four and right to question our top-up strategy.

And the injury excuse is null and void yesterday. Only really Frawley missing from our best 22.
 
OnceKicked50 said:
There has been some emotional reactions sure. But we are not where we should be at all. We have played two teams that will likely play finals and have gone 3-4. This included just getting over the line against Carlton. Within two months, we may very well find ourselves down in the bottom four.

Yes we lost Mitchell, but no club should be so heavily reliant on one player. He alone doesn't take this group from our current performance to a finals contender.

The reason people are frustrated mate is the narrative, by our trading actions, is that the club felt we were closer to contending than not. To this respect, the season is in massive danger of being an absolute failure if we do end up bottom six or worse.

Even without Mitchell, the pass mark has to be perhaps just missing finals. At present, this looks really unlikely and we should allow people to judge the season accordingly.

As another posted mentioned, our strategy and 'reshape' as you say, is still so heavily reliant on bringing in Free Agents. It will be a massive off-season for the club.
Click to expand...
I agree that maybe we should have hit the draft in the last few years as a suppose to FA's.

If we continue to perform like this we won't be a destinsation club anymore. I'm all for FA's but would like to see the club use our high picks and not get bend over a barrel.
 
OnceKicked50 said:
There has been some emotional reactions sure. But we are not where we should be at all. We have played two teams that will likely play finals and have gone 3-4. This included just getting over the line against Carlton. Within two months, we may very well find ourselves down in the bottom four.

Yes we lost Mitchell, but no club should be so heavily reliant on one player. He alone doesn't take this group from our current performance to a finals contender.

The reason people are frustrated mate is the narrative, by our trading actions, is that the club felt we were closer to contending than not. To this respect, the season is in massive danger of being an absolute failure if we do end up bottom six or worse.

Even without Mitchell, the pass mark has to be perhaps just missing finals. At present, this looks really unlikely and we should allow people to judge the season accordingly.

As another posted mentioned, our strategy and 'reshape' as you say, is still so heavily reliant on bringing in Free Agents. It will be a massive off-season for the club.
Click to expand...

It would be a massive failure if we had traded this years 1st rounder. Personally I had us winning 10 to 12 games now it looks like a 9 to 11 given a couple of close losses.
 
Bedi said:
People need to remember just how close we were to winning this. Really could've (and should've) snatched it in that last 30 seconds of play. Very pissed off with the result, but extremely happy with the way we came back in the last after that putrid third quarter.
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We got absolutely thumped in contested possessions, and they had 5 more scoring shots. They should be upset they didn't win by a comfortable 20 points.
 
Yes Titch got injured but we can't rely on one player to make a difference. This just exposes that our depth is not that good.
Even if we had Titch playing our forward line is dysfunctional and not clicking as it used to be.
 

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Autopsy Hawks lose another close one to dees

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