Autopsy Hawks lose to Eagles

[hfc70]

Of all the times they have fallen in against us , I think we deserved that break.

Agreed. Just think we need to include all results not just be selective.

We have the team to turn things around quickly , the boys just need to recapture that earlier form.

I don’t accept the ‘we are about where we should be’ thinking.
We should have beaten Sydney.
We definitely should have beaten Brisbane.
We definitely had our chances against Tigers.

So in my thinking ‘we are definitely not where we should be’

 

[thejockey]

Of all the times they have fallen in against us , I think we deserved that break.

Here here , were by far the better side and should have won by 5-6 goals

 

[OnceKicked50]

Yes, take the lions loss away and we’ve lost two close games to two top 4 teams, by less than 2 kicks. Similar with the Richmond game.

Yes we have played some excuciating football at times, but we’ve also played some good football.

We’re clearly not the best team in the comp, but we’re also far from the worst.

What I find perplexing is that when we sat in the top few we had plenty of posters who said we weren’t that good and it didn’t mean a lot, but now that we’ve dropped down the ladder the very same posters are pissed off with how Hawthorn are playing, saying it’s not good enough, while also predicting a bleak future.

They’re all over the shop.

Some very fair points.

I don't see us as the worst team at all. I just don't think being stuck somewhere between contending and rebuilding is very beneficial.

But, at present it's still too early to give up on the season despite this feeling we are short of the mark.

 

[OnceKicked50]

I’ve described our last month as poor but in hindsight it’s been better then that . It’s not great but were we ever going to be winning 15+ games this season ?

Saints - 2 quite decent quarters , 2 average grind quarters
Bombers - people forget we were 40pts up late in that game then they kicked 3 junk goals to flatter the score
Swans- 10pts up at the start of time on
Lions - aberration
Eagles - grindered away against the top side lose by 15

It’s not horrible it’s not great either , we are performing like an ‘ok’ to ‘good’ AFL side.

It’s just whether you want to take a glass half full or empty approach to what we produce

I don't disagree with you. My posts, i'd like to think, are more aimed at next year and beyond. I can't see Clarko or the HFC wanting to remain an OK football side. I find it hard to see as the lists stands how we could become contenders?

I have no issues with the up and down nature of our season.

I guess my glass half full will be, hopefully, seeing a few more young players suggest they can become 200 game players for us.

 

[Hawthorn23]

Highlights from the game!

 

[StillAtLarge]

Surprised so many on here had Burton in the votes. His kicking was very ordinary. Thought Shiels had an underrated game

 

[Luv_our_club]

Just a few thoughts on some of the above posts:

- I agree with those that say we need another gun midfield more than a forward... if we had better ball movement it would make our forwards look much better. The problem of having enough talent in our forward line is two years off yet.

- I agree with those that say playing two rucks straightened us up and that we looked better. McEvoy did a lot of defensive work. Unless our game plan changes, we need Ceglar to play.

- Our tackling and our handballs.... not great




Cyril watch:

I sat near Cyril and at times it was fun watching him reacting to his cousin. Cyril started clapping and shaking his head when Willy took his great mark.

Another time Cyril screamed out Dimma's name when Dimma went hard to a contest (the one in the 2nd quarter).

 

[eldorado]

The Rebuild Model: If you're not in contention for a flag, it's better to finish as low as possible.

As far as valid theories go, it's up there with the "Trickle-Down" theory of economics

 

[thejockey]

I don't disagree with you. My posts, i'd like to think, are more aimed at next year and beyond. I can't see Clarko or the HFC wanting to remain an OK football side. I find it hard to see as the lists stands how we could become contenders?

I have no issues with the up and down nature of our season.

I guess my glass half full will be, hopefully, seeing a few more young players suggest they can become 200 game players for us.

Things can change very quickly though

Young players can improve rapidly over 5-10 games or even a pre season. We may not have high picks in that group but noone knows how they will turn out at this stage
We may have 2-3 gems emerge after we get 20 games into them
Get a decent FA , get a decent player or two in this draft and all of sudden average goes to very good and beyond

 

[Hawk_francais]

Senseless negativity is no good for anyone. However, blind positiveness can set you back 10 years. Ask Melbourne, St Kilda or Carlton. At times, you just have to accept the hard, unpleasant reality.

Of all the baseless comments you are suggesting from fans, I would suggest the bolded part of your post is the most 'baseless'. By nature of the amazing, unparalleled, success we have all enjoyed as fans we have had little to no access to top end young talent via the draft. We would arguably have one of the worst u/23 lists in the AFL.

I am not sure what talent you are referring to at Box Hill?

There will be some massive decisions to make at the end of the year I think.

So you're saying that you're not senselessly negative by comparing us to Melbourne, St Kilda and Carton in the last decade.

I'll name the promising kids: Burton, Hardwick, Howe, Morrison, Worpel, Cousins, Lovell, Lewis, Glass, Nash, Hanrahan

Then there's O'Meara, Mitchell, Impey, Sicily, Pittonet and O'Rourke who are all barely more than kids.

If you disagree that any of these players show promise, it means you haven't been watching Box Hill.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

The Rebuild Model: If you're not in contention for a flag, it's better to finish as low as possible.

As far as valid theories go, it's up there with the "Trickle-Down" theory of economics

Interesting. Loved the comparison

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Just a few thoughts on some of the above posts:

- I agree with those that say we need another gun midfield more than a forward... if we had better ball movement it would make our forwards look much better. The problem of having enough talent in our forward line is two years off yet.

- I agree with those that say playing two rucks straightened us up and that we looked better. McEvoy did a lot of defensive work. Unless our game plan changes, we need Ceglar to play.

- Our tackling and our handballs.... not great




Cyril watch:

I sat near Cyril and at times it was fun watching him reacting to his cousin. Cyril started clapping and shaking his head when Willy took his great mark.

Another time Cyril screamed out Dimma's name when Dimma went hard to a contest (the one in the 2nd quarter).

I was almost applauding Willy. Those Rioli lads are a joy to watch - just not so much when they are making your side look silly.

 

[Big Hotdog]

Just a few thoughts on some of the above posts:

- I agree with those that say we need another gun midfield more than a forward... if we had better ball movement it would make our forwards look much better. The problem of having enough talent in our forward line is two years off yet.

- I agree with those that say playing two rucks straightened us up and that we looked better. McEvoy did a lot of defensive work. Unless our game plan changes, we need Ceglar to play.

- Our tackling and our handballs.... not great




Cyril watch:

I sat near Cyril and at times it was fun watching him reacting to his cousin. Cyril started clapping and shaking his head when Willy took his great mark.

Another time Cyril screamed out Dimma's name when Dimma went hard to a contest (the one in the 2nd quarter).

What is cyril upto now?

STALKER ALERT

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JoondalupJ]

Yes skill levels have dropped. It is now all about running and forcing stoppages. At stoppages it is just grab ball. put head down and barge, go to ground, release ball. Next player does exactly the same thing and the umpire just lets it go on and on. It's all about speeding up the game. LOL.

For those who think today's game is great spend several hours watching games from the eighties or even the seventies for that matter.

I really do feel sorry for those who have only seen football this century. Honestly you do not know what you are missing. Aussie Rules used to be easily the best game to watch. Not now.

IMO there is a simple change to once again make Aussie rules great.

No interchange rule. 18 players plus 2 or if you still crave for a little of today's game 4 reserves. I assure you the flooding and forward congestion would be a bad memory.

Thank heavens sir, for saying what I have been screaming about for several years on BF .

The death of a unique sport, literally changing to unrecognisable .

Stoppage is the worst word in any sporting language , then that whistle blows , (is it every second?? it sounds like it) and something is pulled out of a pack a free or something no one understands. Or worse a jabbed at kick that goes in no specific direction, luck for any player who marks it.
I won't have another rant on this, but it is heartbreaking watching this, and Lord Mud of Glenferrie you are on the money , the youngsters who accept this as Australian Rules Football simply have no idea.
Now people in an older age brackett , have to be sensible, smart ones realise that advancement and development are essential for humanity to move forward change for the good is great. Now I don't want to get melodramatic with this, but Aussie rules is such a powerful thing, its tribal in most of the country, and as a leisure thing , it is extraordinarily important to we Australians, and if you are a Melbournite it is part of your make up and life.

Yet it appears that the AFL, these people who are supposed to have the interest and good fortune in mind for the money providing members and fans,but seem to be brick walled in to this new style of stoppage and over handball and unneeded petty free kicks and fifty metre penalties.

Now we are seeing and hearing one or two fox footy people discussing the scrum, the rolling maul type of things ,stoppages continuously happening in the game a great deal now, perhaps there may be some people with influence who may, like Gerard Healy said "On the Couch" a week ago , this (28 second pack formed and went on and on and on no whistle) ! needs taking out of the game! There is a start.
I wonder if others will start speaking out now, to save the game and forget their huge pay packets working on AFL bred Fox footy.

Now I'm not sure if the AFL want our great game back, to a point of slower and much much much more skilful than it is now, with less clubs involved.

If it doesn't this is marketing at the expense of a national tradition. BELIEVE ME ITS MORE THAN A GAME!

When I was a kid I came down to grade three at primary school to Melbourne from Mildura. New kid , first thing I was asked is , "who ya barrack for mate!!?"
I was 8 .
I'd followed Hawthorn for as long as I could remember being alive, and this new game to me, the changes that are ruining it, it is like dying to me!

That is what this game means to me, umpires should be applauded they do their job to the ultimate exact limit

!The people who write the new rules for them , should be ashamed of themselves I guess that goes for Mr Hocking and his rules people.

Thanks Lord Mud. JJ.

 

[Pessimistic]

Just saw the replay end interviewing Willie. Seems like a nice guy but very shy. Mad hawks supporter mainly because of Cyril.

Dear Cyril, we have one more job for you ol mate.

 

[OnceKicked50]

So you're saying that you're not senselessly negative by comparing us to Melbourne, St Kilda and Carton in the last decade.

I'll name the promising kids: Burton, Hardwick, Howe, Morrison, Worpel, Cousins, Lovell, Lewis, Glass, Nash, Hanrahan

Then there's O'Meara, Mitchell, Impey, Sicily, Pittonet and O'Rourke who are all barely more than kids.

If you disagree that any of these players show promise, it means you haven't been watching Box Hill.

Your first point doesn't deserve a comment.

I respect your passion, but I don't think anyone can confidently say Cousins, Lovell, Lewis, Glass, Nash, Hanrahan, Worpel, Pittonet and O'Rourke are going to become 100 game players. Let alone elite.

We are hoping (some expecting) third, fourth and rookie picks to become elite. We might get one from the above if we are lucky (I rate Nash) but more on that list will probably only be serviceable.

If you objectively went about looking at our u/23 talent against other sides, you would see we are very light on in talent. It was unavoidable. It is understandable.

 

[Pessimistic]

Dear Lord Mud.

You may well be right, but put the blame on half arsed attempts to rule change the game to being “better” rather than coaching

Except the interchanges mr KB. That happened before 2000 you can’t honestly say that rule took 18 years to ruin the game - anyway interchanges were capped for two seasons now surely there’d be a measurable improvement however slight?

 

[Hawker1167]

Thank heavens sir, for saying what I have been screaming about for several years on BF .

The death of a unique sport, literally changing to unrecognisable .

Stoppage is the worst word in any sporting language , then that whistle blows , (is it every second?? it sounds like it) and something is pulled out of a pack a free or something no one understands. Or worse a jabbed at kick that goes in no specific direction, luck for any player who marks it.
I won't have another rant on this, but it is heartbreaking watching this, and Lord Mud of Glenferrie you are on the money , the youngsters who accept this as Australian Rules Football simply have no idea.
Now people in an older age brackett , have to be sensible, smart ones realise that advancement and development are essential for humanity to move forward change for the good is great. Now I don't want to get melodramatic with this, but Aussie rules is such a powerful thing, its tribal in most of the country, and as a leisure thing , it is extraordinarily important to we Australians, and if you are a Melbournite it is part of your make up and life.

Yet it appears that the AFL, these people who are supposed to have the interest and good fortune in mind for the money providing members and fans,but seem to be brick walled in to this new style of stoppage and over handball and unneeded petty free kicks and fifty metre penalties.

Now we are seeing and hearing one or two fox footy people discussing the scrum, the rolling maul type of things ,stoppages continuously happening in the game a great deal now, perhaps there may be some people with influence who may, like Gerard Healy said "On the Couch" a week ago , this (28 second pack formed and went on and on and on no whistle) ! needs taking out of the game! There is a start.
I wonder if others will start speaking out now, to save the game and forget their huge pay packets working on AFL bred Fox footy.

Now I'm not sure if the AFL want our great game back, to a point of slower and much much much more skilful than it is now, with less clubs involved.

If it doesn't this is marketing at the expense of a national tradition. BELIEVE ME ITS MORE THAN A GAME!

When I was a kid I came down to grade three at primary school to Melbourne from Mildura. New kid , first thing I was asked is , "who ya barrack for mate!!?"
I was 8 .
I'd followed Hawthorn for as long as I could remember being alive, and this new game to me, the changes that are ruining it, it is like dying to me!

That is what this game means to me, umpires should be applauded they do their job to the ultimate exact limit

!The people who write the new rules for them , should be ashamed of themselves I guess that goes for Mr Hocking and his rules people.

Thanks Lord Mud. JJ.

my wife came to the footy yesterday and she was asking me what certain free kicks were for and I couldn't answer her as I didn't know and I am 51 followed the Hawks since I knew what footy was also playing the game from when I was 5 through the 31 but I was dumb founded it the decisions that were made not only to the Eagles but also to us and actually in all games I watch.

yesterday the boundry umpire threw the ball in no where near the waiting ruckman - the ball falls in the arms of Breust and the feee kick is paid against him for third man up - what was he supposed to do as I am still not 100% what the players are to do - maybe let the ball bounce then attack it and as you know we are brought up playing footy with he one rule see footy get footy - players just seem very confused on what they can and cannot do - the game has been messed around to the point thats its not all the enjoyable to watch anymore

I do feel for the umpires to because the game would be the hardest in the world to umpire and thats because the AFL keep messing wiht the rules and every rule we do have is not black and white but just grey

 

[Hawk_francais]

Highlights from the game!

Awesome highlights, finishing quality of Impey/Smith/Poppy/O'Meara was exceptional. Also, did Mitch Lewis have a handball give in every single goal yesterday? Hands of gold.

Your first point doesn't deserve a comment.

I respect your passion, but I don't think anyone can confidently say Cousins, Lovell, Lewis, Glass, Nash, Hanrahan, Worpel, Pittonet and O'Rourke are going to become 100 game players. Let alone elite.

We are hoping (some expecting) third, fourth and rookie picks to become elite. We might get one from the above if we are lucky (I rate Nash) but more on that list will probably only be serviceable.

If you objectively went about looking at our u/23 talent against other sides, you would see we are very light on in talent. It was unavoidable. It is understandable.

At round 10 last year, would you have believed me if I told you that James Sicily could become an all-australian defender?

I've bookmarked your post, I'm sure we'll get to revisit it.

 

[OnceKicked50]

At round 10 last year, would you have believed me if I told you that James Sicily could become an all-australian defender?

I've bookmarked your post, I'm sure we'll get to revisit it.

People questioning our list doesn't require a melt due. But thanks for bookmarking this.

As for Sicily, I actually was pretty confident he would make it. Hardwick was a surprise. We could use a few more of those surprises by seasons end. Tough to see from who but, sadly.

 

[Pessimistic]

People questioning our list doesn't require a melt due. But thanks for bookmarking this.

As for Sicily, I actually was pretty confident he would make it. Hardwick was a surprise. We could use a few more of those surprises by seasons end. Tough to see from who but, sadly.

Even if the rest are role players or depth, sicily burton Hardwick O’Meara Mitchell is a fair list of a graders. More can be added before they reach peak age. We are still behind some teams but even at this ‘low ebb’ we weren’t disgraced against a couple of runaway top teams, and smashed the current third team

 

[OnceKicked50]

Even if the rest are role players or depth, sicily burton Hardwick O’Meara Mitchell is a fair list of a graders. More can be added before they reach peak age. We are still behind some teams but even at this ‘low ebb’ we weren’t disgraced against a couple of runaway top teams, and smashed the current third team

We weren't disgraced with those you have mentioned, and, Gunston, Smith, Stratton, Shiels, McEvoy and Bruest all in their primes. Plus we had Roughead, Puopolo, Burgoyne and Frawley all who may be gone in two years.

Anyhow, moderators feel free to move most of my posts to the list strategy thread. Sorry, I'm derailing this thread off-topic.

 

[Pessimistic]

If only...brad hill didn’t get homesick

 

[Billy Bob65]

Posting data from a Foxtel game is going to be a rare thing as you're on FTA so much that I can hit my 50% benchmark via FTA alone, but I needed more Eagles data and the camera framing was favourable, so you've got a bonus game.

For those that haven't seen these before, this is a running tally of the starting 5 mids at each centre bounce

NB> Nothing after the number indicates all starts were as an inside mid

Mitchell 19 (1w)
O'Meara 17 (1w)
Smith 16 (15w, 1i)
Shiels 15 (5w)
Henderson 13 wing
Breust 7
Burton 7 wing
Impey 7
Roughead 4
Morrison 4 wing
Puopolo 3
Burgoyne 3

Rucks:
McEvoy 20
Ceglar 3

Notes:
- Surprisingly, given your back-up ruck was a specialist ruck in their own right, this was the lowest amount of appearances from the back-up at a centre bounce in the 7 Hawk games I've analysed this season - even taking into consideration other low scoring games.
- The most appearances (from the 7 games) for Breust this season. The previous most was 4.
- Once again Burgoyne played the entire last term as an inside mid, there just happened to be very few goals kicked
- With Burton playing forward, he replaced Morrison as the preferred relief winger (and for that matter the preferred player to swap into Burgoyne's backline spot).

 

[Rev08]

What I find perplexing is that when we sat in the top few we had plenty of posters who said we weren’t that good and it didn’t mean a lot, but now that we’ve dropped down the ladder the very same posters are pissed off with how Hawthorn are playing, saying it’s not good enough, while also predicting a bleak future.

They’re all over the shop.

I was one of those saying we weren’t that good when we were 5-2 and I think our last 3 weeks of footy shows that to be true. I wasn’t complaining about the footy we were playing though, more so worried that there was a train of thought out there that we were in contention for the flag this year and that was reflected in our selection. We are a middle of the road side and missing a few important cogs to put us in contention again. With that being the case, I couldn’t understand the selection of the likes of Langford, Whitecross and Duryea. If we’re not going to win it, we might as well fill those spots with guys who may develop into something that will help us win it in the future.

I didn’t complain about the Brisbane loss and I thought we did well to stay close to WCE.

I can only assume you are in sales though for you to spin the last month of footy as anything other than ordinary. We beat a heartless Essendon, lost to a very ordinary Sydney without Buddy and got smashed by Brisbane. I actually think Sunday is our best performance of the last month.

And to reiterate, it is ok that our last month was ordinary because that is where we are at. But please, put the spin away and call a spade a spade.