Autopsy Hawks vs Cats - Do the autopsy here.

[Pessimistic]

So when we lose close games were mentally weak but win them and we just scrape through ?

Fairs fair call out a poor performance but thats disingenious

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Scott must love coaching against us.

Just opens up the same play book time after time, grinning to himself "they're still coming at us the same way!"

 

[Nomore4s]

So when we lose close games were mentally weak but win them and we just scrape through ?

Fairs fair call out a poor performance but thats disingenious

If you are referring to my post, I'm only talking about the Adelaide PF, we were lucky to win that game and we did scrape through imo. And I never called them mentally weak.
But there certainly is a worrying trend with our team over the last few years.

 

[Madhawknut]

Neither our smalls or our talls can't take a mark!!!

Look at the cats Backline they pretty much marked everything.

This is the reason we will never win a premiership this year!!!

 

[The Mongrel Punt]

Just imagine...

With the #6 pick, Hawthorn select... Joel Selwood

 

[IBleedBrownNGold]

Just imagine...

With the #6 pick, Hawthorn select... Joel Selwood

And you choose to beat yourself up with this rubbish? Please get over yourself.

 

[Glassjaw]

Just imagine...

With the #6 pick, Hawthorn select... Joel Selwood

Wouldn't be as bad if you didn't burn that pick on Thorpe too. Will haunt forever.

 

[jive]

I think the main issue is that the team believes in the gameplan far too much, so much so, that they don't know what to do when it doesn't get executed precisely.

We were looking seriously unbeatable in the first half and then as soon as Geelong found some mojo there were hawthorn players walking around with their heads down to the ground. It's as though they were waiting to choke. There was just no one running into space or any urgency to score from the team. Sometimes it is almost bizarre - occasionally teams find a sense of urgency we can't control and we don't reciprocate the urgency. It can be fixed - the team is certainly good enough, they just need to find that RAGE gear.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I think the main issue is that the team believes in the gameplan far too much, so much so, that they don't know what to do when it doesn't get executed precisely.

We were looking seriously unbeatable in the first half and then as soon as Geelong found some mojo there were hawthorn players walking around with their heads down to the ground. It's as though they were waiting to choke. There was just no one running into space or any urgency to score from the team. Sometimes it is almost bizarre - occasionally teams find a sense of urgency we can't control and we don't reciprocate the urgency. It can be fixed - the team is certainly good enough, they just need to find that RAGE gear.

Would have almost been worth reverting to the chip chip gamestyle to regain control when Geelong were on the roll. Whatever method of denying them the ball. We were kicking blindly, or to 2-on-1 situations. We were playing on at all times for what? To get it down to out-numbered forwards.

We get enough shots on goal, but in games like this we end up with far too many low percentage shots and let through high percentage opportunities.

 

[Hawka_de_Haven]

Similarly, if Birchall doesn't run it out of the back line, we don't have anyone else who can take on that role in the team.

There once was Suckers, big impact and a loss which I fear the Hawks have no immediate answer for. Hodge and Ellis have to return soon.

 

[The Mongrel Punt]

And you choose to beat yourself up with this rubbish? Please get over yourself.

Nah, beating up others, actually, but thanks for your concern.

We passed on this guy.

Selwood vs Hawthorn

2009 stats
R1 - 25 disposals
R17 - 42 disposals

2010 stats
R2 - 22 disposals
R15 - 30 disposals

2011 stats
R5 - 32 disposals
R12 - 19 disposals (9 tackles)
QF - 20 disposals (7 tackles)

2012 stats
R2 - 24 disposals (8 tackles)
R17 - 29 disposals

2013 stats
R1 - 33 disposals

He owns us.

 

[IBleedBrownNGold]

Nah, beating up others, actually, but thanks for your concern.

We passed on this guy.

Selwood vs Hawthorn

2009 stats
R1 - 25 disposals
R17 - 42 disposals

2010 stats
R2 - 22 disposals
R15 - 30 disposals

2011 stats
R5 - 32 disposals
R12 - 19 disposals (9 tackles)
QF - 20 disposals (7 tackles)

2012 stats
R2 - 24 disposals (8 tackles)
R17 - 29 disposals

2013 stats
R1 - 33 disposals

He owns us.

Yes, but it is a futile argument. 'What ifs?' are silly to contemplate.

 

[The Mongrel Punt]

Yes, but it is a futile argument. 'What ifs?' are silly to contemplate.

I'm not arguing.

Now you say "Yes you are" and then you'll be right.

 

[IBleedBrownNGold]

I'm not arguing.

Now you say "Yes you are" and then you'll be right.

Nice try there.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Wouldn't be as bad if you didn't burn that pick on Thorpe too. Will haunt forever.

I've forgotten it already.

 

[Beandip]

Nah, beating up others, actually, but thanks for your concern.

We passed on this guy.

Selwood vs Hawthorn

Numbers

He owns us.

2008 Stats:
GF 29 Disposals... and a loss

 

[jive]

Would have almost been worth reverting to the chip chip gamestyle to regain control when Geelong were on the roll. Whatever method of denying them the ball. We were kicking blindly, or to 2-on-1 situations. We were playing on at all times for what? To get it down to out-numbered forwards.

We get enough shots on goal, but in games like this we end up with far too many low percentage shots and let through high percentage opportunities.

I think a few shots in the first half were justified - if a couple of those went through it would have been huge. The hawks were super slugs and still only lost by seven points. Terrible result for our talent, but encouraging for how shit we played in the second half.

My main points:
1. Our press is unstoppable if it really gets working.
2. We need to be able to hit the scoreboard by running the ball from the midfield into the 50 - we DOMINATED when we did this and were destroyed when we didn't.
3. Our rebounders must kick to space and force our fast runners towards to take marks in space. What is the point in having an elite rebounding backline when they just send the ball to either flat footed players or 50/50 contests.
4. Our fast players are only good at attacking.
5. Geelong cannot be beaten at the "bomb it into the 50 and hope for the best" gameplan. They mastered this flukey tactic and can defend against it incredibly well.

 

[Sewell Rules]

I expected to lose the game today. The reasons were firstly that Geelong are a very good side and secondly that they have had a better pre-season than Hawthorn. The dissapointing part of today was how closely the game went to script. Hawthorn waste chances. Geelong take chances. It is as simple as that. Our players have a mental frailty when kicking for goal at crucial times and during close finishes. It has been on display the last 9 times we played Geelong. It was on display in the grand final. It was even on display in the pre-season in which we lost two games by a point, and it was on display today. Football is mostly played above the shoulders and it seems like too many of our players are deficient in this area. Back in '08 we were a tough side mentally. We lost that mental edge that Jeff Kennett was talking about. Our team now is more talented than '08 (by a long way in my opinion) but it is far less mentally strong than the '08 team.

Players from '08 premiership who are gone
Stephen Gilham
Trent Croad
Rick Ladson
Clinton Young
Mark Williams
Campbell Brown
Robert Campbell
Chance Bateman
Stuart Dew
Xavier Ellis
Brent Renouf
Shane Crawford

Not all of those guys are renowned for been mentally tough but as a group I think they are a lot tougher mentally than their modern day replacements listed below. Also Hodge and Osborne are obviously still on the list but did not play today so there are 14 players in the list of replacements compared to 12 from the '08 premiership.

Modern day replacements
Ben Stratton
Shaun Burgoyne
Paul Puopolo
Isaac Smith
Ryan Schoenmakers
Luke Breust
Shane Savage
David Hale
Bradley Hill
Max Bailey
Josh Gibson
Jack Gunston
Liam Shiels
Jed Anderson

I really think there is more question marks over the current group mentally. More talent but less mental toughness.

 

[The Swert]

Just imagine...

With the #6 pick, Hawthorn select... Joel Selwood

Ah yes but lets not forget who else we got in that draft...

pick 24 - B Renouf (gone)
pick 33 - J Morton (gone)
pick 40 - JP Kennedy (gone)
pick 56 - G Moss (gone)

Ah but i'm sure we got somebody good in the pre-season draft...

pick 5 - J Thurgood (yikes!)

surely in the rookie draft...

pick 6 - B Collins (who?)
pick 22 - M Suckling

So there we go, Cats got Selwood but they missed out on Suckling. How could they be so foolish!

 

[spudmaster]

I expected to lose the game today. The reasons were firstly that Geelong are a very good side and secondly that they have had a better pre-season than Hawthorn. The dissapointing part of today was how closely the game went to script. Hawthorn waste chances. Geelong take chances. It is as simple as that. Our players have a mental frailty when kicking for goal at crucial times and during close finishes. It has been on display the last 9 times we played Geelong. It was on display in the grand final. It was even on display in the pre-season in which we lost two games by a point, and it was on display today. Football is mostly played above the shoulders and it seems like too many of our players are deficient in this area. Back in '08 we were a tough side mentally. We lost that mental edge that Jeff Kennett was talking about. Our team now is more talented than '08 (by a long way in my opinion) but it is far less mentally strong than the '08 team.

Players from '08 premiership who are gone
Stephen Gilham
Trent Croad
Rick Ladson
Clinton Young
Mark Williams
Campbell Brown
Robert Campbell
Chance Bateman
Stuart Dew
Xavier Ellis
Brent Renouf
Shane Crawford

Not all of those guys are renowned for been mentally tough but as a group I think they are a lot tougher mentally than their modern day replacements listed below. Also Hodge and Osborne are obviously still on the list but did not play today so there are 14 players in the list of replacements compared to 12 from the '08 premiership.

Modern day replacements
Ben Stratton
Shaun Burgoyne
Paul Puopolo
Isaac Smith
Ryan Schoenmakers
Luke Breust
Shane Savage
David Hale
Bradley Hill
Max Bailey
Josh Gibson
Jack Gunston
Liam Shiels
Jed Anderson

I really think there is more question marks over the current group mentally. More talent but less mental toughness.

For all intents and purposes, perhaps, but he's technically still on the list.

 

[Benjarman11]

I'm torn on this- logically I knew Geelong were better prepared, I tipped them to win, we were a month behind etc.. But to get 5 goals up again with the history we've had with them you really have to ask yourself did those defeats hurt the players as much as its been hurting the fans? At some point in the 3rd quarter we had to make a stand and just say no more- didn't happen! They just don't seem to fear loosing and it's making it really hard to support them.. Don't get me wrong- il be there every week no matter how bad we are but at the moment I think we have a team that relies more on talent than determination. As for Geelong- credit to them but I still wouldn't trade these 10 losses for the 08 flag.

 

[Mr Chuckles]

I know that every loss to the cats is painful, but to be honest I'm a little surprised at the level of negativity on here.

I thought the only element of today's game that was truly familiar from the mentally weak efforts in big games in recent years was that we didn't convert our dominant period into enough of a lead.

Not sure how it seemed watching on TV with the commentators providing analysis, but at the ground I thought it was the clearest case I've seen of a team being beaten due almost entirely due to inferior fitness. It was obvious we were completely out of legs 5 minutes in to the 3rd quarter, and from that point it was always going to be "how far geelong?" If anything the fact that we fought from that point on to only go down by a couple of kicks was creditable, compared to most of the Kennett Curse defeats where we've well and truly had our shot at winning in the last quarter and blown it.

We will get fitter in the coming weeks, and based on what I saw in the first half today I'm very confident that we'll be hard to beat at our best. Unfortunately though, I think we'll be 0-3 in a couple of weeks and it's a long way back from there in the race for a Top 4 berth.

At some point this year, we will face a big game where our mental resolve is tested late on, and we may well fail that test yet again. I just didn't think today proved much either way in that department, for a change I didn't leave with the impression that the Cats got the win solely due to superior self belief and composure.

 

[nickrebellious]

5 contested marks to 15. Roughy 0, Franklin 1, Bailey 1, Hale 1. Taylor took 3, equal to our 4 talls I just listed FFS!
With the amount of opportunities they had, that is simply terrible.

If this was closer to the off-season, I'd be begging for a shake up. Give Koch Roughead for Schulz, let Franklin leave and throw money at LeCras. Bundle up Hale/Bailey and get a decent 1st ruck from Adelaide(they produce a lot of them for some reason). I'm taking the piss here, but damn they stank it up today.

 

[RogersResults]

• Geelong's average margin in the 10 wins now stands at 8.6 points. The margins have been 8,1,9,2,19,5,31,2,2 and 7. (The next lowest average margin from 10 consecutive wins against the one opponent has been 20.9 points - Geelong v Melbourne 1965-1970 - then a handfull between 26 and 29 points with the vast majority over 30 points,)
• Combined scores from the 10 matches are: Geelong 145.131-1,001 v Hawthorn 133.117-915.
• Geelong have won 21 quarters - Hawthorn 17 with 2 drawn.
• Each have won 5 first quarters.
• Geelong have won 1 second quarter - Hawthorn 7 with 2 drawn.
• Geelong have won 7 third quarters - Hawthorn 3.
• Geelong have won 8 last quarters - Hawthorn 2.
• Geelong have won 4 first halves - Hawthorn 6 (combined 1st half scores: Geelong 476 points v Hawthorn 511 points.
• Geelong have won 7 second halves - Hawthorn 3. (combined 2nd half scores: Geelong 525 points - Hawthorn 404 points)
• Each has led 5 times at 3/4 time.
• Hawthorn's last 12 losses have been shared between Geelong (6), Collingwood (2), Sydney (2), Richmond (1), West Coast (1).
  
  There has never been anything quite like this before. Its a freak. Nearly all 10 game winning streaks against the one opponent are more like Hawthorn's previous 10 game losing streak v Essendon 1998-2005.
  
  
  
• Essendon average winning margin 40.6 points - margins: 6,60,47,83,65,9,7,53,74,2
• Combined scores: Essendon 161.143-1,109 v Hawthorn 105.73-703
• Essendon won 30 quarters and Hawthorn 9 with 1 drawn.
• Essendon won 10 first quarters.
• Essendon won 8 second quarters - Hawthorn 2
• Essendon won 6 third quarters - Hawthorn 4
• Essendon won 6 last quarters - Hawthorn 3 with 1 drawn.
• Essendon won 10 first halves: 582 to 281
• Essendon won 6 second halves - 527 to 422.
  
  or Hawthorn's 10 game winning streak v Richmond 1989-1994
  
  
• Hawthorn's average winning margin 46.7 points - margins: 44,38,30,91,57,6,79,84,10,28
• Combined score's: Hawthorn 198.154-1,342 v Richmond 125.125-875
• Hawthorn won 30 quarters and Richmond 9 with 1 drawn.
• Hawthorn won 10 first quarters.
• Hawthorn won 9 second quarters - Richmond 1
• Hawthorn won 7 third quarters - Richmond 3
• Hawthorn won 7 last quarters - Richmond 3
• Hawthorn won 9 first halves: 665 to 452
• Hawthorn won 8 second halves - 677 to 423.
  
  In the previous two examples only a few matches could have really gone the other way. In the Hawthorn/Geelong 2009-13 sequence, most of the matches could have gone the other way.
  
  Make what you will of the above facts.

 

[nickrebellious]

Hawthorn's last 12 losses have been shared between Geelong (6), Collingwood (2), Sydney (2), Richmond (1), West Coast (1).

I find that hilarious.