Autopsy Round 3, 2024 :Hawks fail against Cats

[Topiary]

Just want to circle back to Frosts game.

He was immense.

I’ve never really liked the way people attack him on these boards, because he sure as hell is always giving his all.

He has been superb.

 

[Gut Runner]

To break even (13-13) from Centre Clearances is still pretty poor if you think about it.

They had a second gamer Ruck, Parfitt, Bruhn and Clark (2nd year).

It kind of shows that our mids are still struggling.

What doesn't help is that our HFFs and HBFs don't seem to be able to assist after the initial ball up.

 

[Lickmesocks]

To break even (13-13) from Centre Clearances is still pretty poor if you think about it.

They had a second gamer Ruck, Parfitt, Bruhn and Clark (2nd year).

It kind of shows that our mids are still struggling.

What doesn't help is that our HFFs and HBFs don't seem to be able to assist after the initial ball up.

I reckon they were up 5-0 at one stage.

 

[Charchi]

You cannot play loose at a CB though and he needs to do much better.

If we keep adding Talls down back then opposition smalls will get a hold of us.

Sicily is currently getting toweled up by the 3rd tall and he is terribly out of form. My opinion.

Unfortunately Sis would be winning the reverse Coleman at the moment with 3,5 and 4 goals kicked against him, he is also goes into his shell very quickly if making a mistake early by doing the simple short kick sideways to make it someone else's problem. Plus he needs to work through being pushed in the back and out of the contest in one and completely blocked and knocked over in another contest, both resulting in goals to them, both times by playing in front and not at the shoulder of his opponent.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I don't think anyone ever questions his endeavour, just frustrated by his "Frostball".

Has been very good so far this year though.

I know what I’ve deleted over the years.

Lots of very low personal comments about one of our players.

 

[Ka Norkers]

He has to learn. We do not have anyone else.

we have a kid who has been in the system a few years, hard as a cats head, makes good decisions and has played beautifully for BHH in the first two weeks. He might be only 193cms, but Collingwood don't have massive talls other than Cox, and it wouldn't matter who we played on him, they'd be giving away significant height (mind you, didn't worry Sicily too much)

 

[StillAtLarge]

One thing I've noticed is that we regularly have guys taking shots from right on their max distance and it inevitably gets touched on the line. It'd be nice to be a bit less selfish and either dish off to a runner or spot someone up

 

[StillAtLarge]

Hawthorn v Geelong​

9 James Worpel

5

James Worpel

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.2

5star

HB

11.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.5

5star

CL

5.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

9.4

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.8

4star

(HAW)
6 Oliver Henry (GEEL)
5 Mitch Duncan (GEEL)
4 Max Holmes (GEEL)
3 Tanner Bruhn (GEEL)
3 Tyson Stengle

18

Tyson Stengle

Age

25

Ht

175cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

8.8

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

(GEEL)

 

[peetoo]

Don’t know how they (handbaggers) manage to stay up for so long. Their VFL side is average - very few progress unlike BH whom we rely on heavily. We keep waiting for them to fall off the cliff (like we did) and yet they seem to defy footy gravity like the swans. Something is NQR there.

They seem to have a game plan where new pieces fit in quite seamlessly. Probably fitness is the only barrier

 

[kirbatron]

The main thing that struck me from yesterday (apart from the umpiring) were some of the dumb decisions our players made.

Bruest (x2), Macdonald playing on after taking a mark in the forward 50, Sicily fluffing a kick out of the defensive 50m, The Wiz missing a goal from 5m out.

Just unforced errors that killed us.

But I struggle to think of any similar brain farts from the Cats players.

Similar story last week against the Dees.

It's almost like the well drilled team just sit back, wait for us to utensil up and then punish us on the rebound.

I actually think we have been right in the general play so far this season but we are letting ourselves down with poor execution and decision making which is super frustrating.

we need

more talent
more games into the kids

that's to be competitive each week.

 

[theiaofseed]

It is a bit of a concern that the Hawks best players this season have mostly been new players - Gini, Chol and D'Ambrosio.

Also, Chris Scott would have been the happiest man at the MCG seeing Weddle stand Cameron. Hawks do not have that many weapons and he would have been thrilled to see one of them taken out of the game.

I'm sure he expected a bigger return of 2 goals from Cameron but sure Mitchell got the call wrong because ofc.

 

[badgrill]

The rules are actually s**t. Take rule 18.6 - Holding the Ball - this is an extract from the official rules;

View attachment 1946963
What does that even mean? "a field Umpire shall award a Free Kick if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled" except if "the player genuinely attempts" or "the Legal Tackle cause the football to be dislodged".

My interpretation of this is it is next to impossible for the umpire to award a free kick for incorrect disposal unless the player blatantly throws it.

So what is the point of a tackle?

And some people say that a free kick is not meant to be a reward, well the AFL rules specifically state; "The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle."

The bar for achieving that reward is pretty much unattainable.

This rule drives me completely crazy.

think your points still stand, but this is specifically referring to when there's no prior...

crappy and confusing so it's little wonder the umps are confused interpreting IRL

 

[HedgeFund]

I also wouldn't mind bringing in Serong, or Ryan, to play a medium defender role with the intention of freeing up Sicily.
At the moment Sicily is being exposed defensively, which is sapping his confidence. Get back to utilising our strengths to benefit the team.

The concept of a very experienced backline player who has for the past 7 seasons played exclusively as a defender

1. being exposed “defensively”;

2. needing another young inexperienced player to come into the back 6 and take a forward and defend, so

3. The very experienced defender doesn’t have to worry about defending

is quite amusing.

Sicily needs to sort his own game out and not rely on a chop out from a new kid.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Good role players are critical to a team's success.

However, Osbourne and Sewell (a great player in his prime) were rookie draft picks whilst Guerra was picked up as a recently delisted mediocre small forward.

In contrast, Ward is a blue chip top 10 pick. We really need players selected within this range to develop into top tier talent as opposed to solid role players. Great teams of recent times have been built with key players selected within the 1st round of the draft.

Agree but signs not looking good for Ward becoming an a grader. Very frustrating but if you look closely at his draft year it’s not looking very strong. Callaghan was the one we really wanted/ needed but unfortunately meaningless wins at the tail end of the season stuffed that idea

Same deal with DGB - pretty weak draft we and went so close to nailing Logan McDonald

 

[QuietB]

think your points still stand, but this is specifically referring to when there's no prior...

crappy and confusing so it's little wonder the umps are confused interpreting IRL

But the absurdity of it is there is no further explanation on incorrect disposal when there is prior. What I originally posted was the entire incorrect disposal explanation. It is simply stupid.

 

[peetoo]

Geelong looks to exploit every aspect of the game. They know umpires play an incredibly important part and are, shall we say "vulnerable". So they look how they can use umpires to their benefit. This is just one aspect that separates them from other clubs. Scott is a great coach. They exploit every bit of the game for competitive edge. The problem is, of course, rather than fix this umpiring issue the AFL and the umpiring department celebrate Geelong. More accolades, more frees, the keys to AFL house.

Just wait till it’s CEO dangerfield

 

[Mitchell Madness]

One thing I've noticed is that we regularly have guys taking shots from right on their max distance and it inevitably gets touched on the line. It'd be nice to be a bit less selfish and either dish off to a runner or spot someone up

1. Noone runs past for the handball
2. Noone is making leads
3. The odd occasion someone does make a lead, the kick is trash and gets turned over (not sure if it's shock from someone making a lead that it's overkicked or not)

 

[H00t]

Moore is a workhorse and had a great first game. Has struggled a little bit since. He’s getting himself into the right positions just making basic errors (e.g. dropped mark or turnovers) that he wouldn’t normally make.

I’d guess it’s mostly down to getting over glandular fever. Once he gets into the swing of things it will be a big improvement for our forward half.

He’s such a vital player for us.

 

[HedgeFund]

Sicily playing loose is a key to Hawthorn winning though. The coaches need to manufacture a set up where he can do it.

Stewart, Vlastuin & Lever also get the luxury of doing it for their sides regularly - but that is rarely the key to them winning.

We don’t yet have the full ground defensive pressure these 3 clubs have / had to enable our 6th defender to play loose as their opponent gets sucked up to the contest.

It’s not a matter for the coaching staff to work out the matchups as the game unfolds, it’s up to the players themselves.

If Sicily has been told he has to take the third tall after Frost / Scrimshaw take the taller ones - he has to bite down and play the role.

If the opposition go smaller and Sicily ends up on a 6th forward who wants to push up to the contest - then he can play drop off.

We don’t just pick Phillips or Serong to plug in as an extra tall (and possibly get hammered) to please our captain.

 

[Mississippi]

1. Noone runs past for the handball
2. Noone is making leads
3. The odd occasion someone does make a lead, the kick is trash and gets turned over (not sure if it's shock from someone making a lead that it's overkicked or not)

Don’t know Noone.
What number is he?
Sounds just like the guy we need in the mid season draft.

 

[RoughysMullet]

I've seen this Hawks v Cats movie before, many times. I had to be over 18 to watch it. Cats pull goals from their bottom, get kissed on the willy from the footy gods and get the final reach-around from the umpires. I know how the plot goes before it starts.

Happens every time- yesterday was especially bad…

 

[The hands of stone]

It is a bit of a concern that the Hawks best players this season have mostly been new players - Gini, Chol and D'Ambrosio.

Also, Chris Scott would have been the happiest man at the MCG seeing Weddle stand Cameron. Hawks do not have that many weapons and he would have been thrilled to see one of them taken out of the game.

I look at it differently .

Weddle is 19 and we had faith to put him on someone who I regard as one of the best 3 players in the comp .
A guy who bbq'd us last year and pretty much does what he wants .

Weddle kept him in check and under control .....and I reckon learnt a heap doing it too .
Thats two big ticks for the match up.

If we want him being damaging , going forward and hitting the scoreboard as he progress's Cameron is the player you want him learning from.

 

[TylerDurden]

I look at it differently .

Weddle is 19 and we had faith to put him on someone who I regard as one of the best 3 players in the comp .
A guy who bbq'd us last year and pretty much does what he wants .

Weddle kept him in check and under control .....and I reckon learnt a heap doing it too .
Thats two big ticks for the match up.

If we want him being damaging , going forward and hitting the scoreboard as he progress's Cameron is the player you want him learning from.

Exactly how I saw it. He dropped 7 on Sicily last year resulting in an 80 point thumping.
What more do we want?

 

[TheFourPillars]

I look at it differently .

Weddle is 19 and we had faith to put him on someone who I regard as one of the best 3 players in the comp .
A guy who bbq'd us last year and pretty much does what he wants .

Weddle kept him in check and under control .....and I reckon learnt a heap doing it too .
Thats two big ticks for the match up.

If we want him being damaging , going forward and hitting the scoreboard as he progress's Cameron is the player you want him learning from.

Weddle had a huge game. Thats the first game where he has been asked to be defensive and he passed that with flying colours as far as I am concerned. Weddle has added another string to his bow in his development and another weapon that Sam can call on when we are competing in finals.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I look at it differently .

Weddle is 19 and we had faith to put him on someone who I regard as one of the best 3 players in the comp .
A guy who bbq'd us last year and pretty much does what he wants .

Weddle kept him in check and under control .....and I reckon learnt a heap doing it too .
Thats two big ticks for the match up.

If we want him being damaging , going forward and hitting the scoreboard as he progress's Cameron is the player you want him learning from.

Weddle played incredibly well. Cameron is unstoppable when he's got room and Geelong had a LOT of room.

Very happy with how he took on such a massive job and I reckon Geelong would be a bit surprised they didn't get more out of Cameron