Autopsy Round 3, 2024 :Hawks fail against Cats

[H00t]

One thing I really liked in this game and the previous games has been we’ve been taking the kick into the middle a lot more this year.

It hasn’t always come off but when it does it opens up the whole ground for us.

One big difference to last year where we’d have 1-2 players free in the middle constantly but we’d stick to the boundary.

The only thing I’d like to see is when we switch the ball to immediately go into the middle mid switch as often our players on the far side get covered quickly but we have a player or two free in the middle during the switch.

 

[cryptor]

The rules are actually s**t. Take rule 18.6 - Holding the Ball - this is an extract from the official rules;

View attachment 1946963
What does that even mean? "a field Umpire shall award a Free Kick if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled" except if "the player genuinely attempts" or "the Legal Tackle cause the football to be dislodged".

My interpretation of this is it is next to impossible for the umpire to award a free kick for incorrect disposal unless the player blatantly throws it.

So what is the point of a tackle?

And some people say that a free kick is not meant to be a reward, well the AFL rules specifically state; "The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle."

The bar for achieving that reward is pretty much unattainable.

This rule drives me completely crazy.

Part (a) needs to be scrapped. Which is saying that a player who is legally tackled and incorrectly disposes of the ball won't have a free kick paid against them providing the umpire subjectively assesses that it was a genuine attempt to correctly dispose.

I would expect in a game of athleticism, strength and skill that being able to legally apply a tackle that then results in the player being forced into a skill error that the rules should be rewarding the tackler.

Rules that have umpire interpretation baked into them are the problem.

 

[westhawk]

Just want to circle back to Frosts game.

He was immense.

I’ve never really liked the way people attack him on these boards, because he sure as hell is always giving his all.

Has been awesome so far. I have been hard on him in the past. Not his endeavour, just his total brain fades he would have. This year though, he has been our best defender, and looks like he is playing to his capability with ball in hand.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

You could see all confidence seep from the Group as each of the two huge mistakes by Bruest were made.

They were the footballing equivalent of a kick to the groin.

And two of them within 5 minutes as well

I'd almost argue that those two mistakes cost us the match.

 

[Lickmesocks]

They were the footballing equivalent of a kick to the groin.

And two of them within 5 minutes as well

I'd almost argue that those two mistakes cost us the match.

Yep you add 2 goals to punky, another to Watson who missed from 4 metres out trying to over kick the ball and also Chol who hit the post from 20 out at the start of the last and the ball game is a light tighter.

Geelong kicking 17.4 is incredible.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

The main thing that struck me from yesterday (apart from the umpiring) were some of the dumb decisions our players made.

Bruest (x2), Macdonald playing on after taking a mark in the forward 50, Sicily fluffing a kick out of the defensive 50m, The Wiz missing a goal from 5m out.

Just unforced errors that killed us.

But I struggle to think of any similar brain farts from the Cats players.

Similar story last week against the Dees.

It's almost like the well drilled team just sit back, wait for us to **** up and then punish us on the rebound.

I actually think we have been right in the general play so far this season but we are letting ourselves down with poor execution and decision making which is super frustrating.

 

[QuietB]

Part (a) needs to be scrapped. Which is saying that a player who is legally tackled and incorrectly disposes of the ball won't have a free kick paid against them providing the umpire subjectively assesses that it was a genuine attempt to correctly dispose.

I would expect in a game of athleticism, strength and skill that being able to legally apply a tackle that then results in the player being forced into a skill error that the rules should be rewarding the tackler.

Rules that have umpire interpretation baked into them are the problem.

Agree. I have always thought that if you take possession of the ball you are responsible for how you dispose it - and like most other sports you are responsible for ball security. If the tackle is good enough to knock it out then they get rewarded - prior or no prior.

Players are elite and when the ball accidentally falls out and when it doesn't.

 

[QuietB]

Yep you add 2 goals to punky, another to Watson who missed from 4 metres out trying to over kick the ball and also Chol who hit the post from 20 out at the start of the last and the ball game is a light tighter.

Geelong kicking 17.4 is incredible.

When Stengel kicked the first goal with a flushed 35m check side you could see trouble coming.

 

[Faraway Hawk]

As mentioned in the game day thread.

Probably 10 minutes of the day dedicated to Ginnivan not getting high free kicks and Joel Selwood on special comments has zero. ZERO. to say. Fkcn coward. So is hodge for not calling him on it.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to get Selwood as a commentator should be sacked first. At one point Selwood referred to the Geelong ruck man as a "Nice Geelong Kid".

 

[SSSSSS]

They were the footballing equivalent of a kick to the groin.

And two of them within 5 minutes as well

I'd almost argue that those two mistakes cost us the match.

Those two mistakes cost us 4 goals on their own. 2 goals we didn't kick and they rebounded it the other way.

 

[smish]

Ginni taking the piss here

 

[Sixpence]

Those two mistakes cost us 4 goals on their own. 2 goals we didn't kick and they rebounded it the other way.

Plus another when Sicily let Henry walk up and tackle him before bombing a long goal.

 

[Gut Runner]

Ginni taking the piss here

Parfitt the dog shoulder charged him.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Plus another when Sicily let Henry walk up and tackle him before bombing a long goal.

I feel for Sic at the minute. With a small backline he is being targeted by opposition and they are attacking him and making him accountable 1-1 and very deep.

 

[Gut Runner]

The main thing that struck me from yesterday (apart from the umpiring) were some of the dumb decisions our players made.

Bruest (x2), Macdonald playing on after taking a mark in the forward 50, Sicily fluffing a kick out of the defensive 50m, The Wiz missing a goal from 5m out.

Just unforced errors that killed us.

But I struggle to think of any similar brain farts from the Cats players.

Similar story last week against the Dees.

It's almost like the well drilled team just sit back, wait for us to utensil up and then punish us on the rebound.

I actually think we have been right in the general play so far this season but we are letting ourselves down with poor execution and decision making which is super frustrating.

Add to that the "taking advantage" play on from Moore's high free.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Add to that the "taking advantage" play on from Moore's high free.

Where the umpire didn't blow the whistle?

 

[rei154]

Ginni taking the piss here

Big fan tbh.
Doesn't seem like anyone is gonna rally for him so he's gotta do it himself

 

[SSSSSS]

Just want to circle back to Frosts game.

He was immense.

I’ve never really liked the way people attack him on these boards, because he sure as hell is always giving his all.

Ruined his immaculate 100% DE.

Delist.

His tackle on Cameron was glorious. Angry but sensible Frosty is best Frosty.

 

[VandoHawk]

I feel for Sic at the minute. With a small backline he is being targeted by opposition and they are attacking him and making him accountable 1-1 and very deep.

I don't.
Frost is being tasked with taking the deepest as the ball comes in with no midfield pressure.
Scrim has been playing extremely defensively accountable and doing a good job.
Weddle just locked down Cameron when he went higher up the ground.
All our undersized defenders have it rough. Sicily, as our captain, needs to recognise that he cannot always play loose when that currently isn't his role.

 

[Gut Runner]

Where the umpire didn't blow the whistle?

Dunno - Thought they did after feeling stupid they didn't pay the Ginni one...

But who knows - We got shafted so often hard to keep count

 

[QuietB]

I don't.
Frost is being tasked with taking the deepest as the ball comes in with no midfield pressure.
Scrim has been playing extremely defensively accountable and doing a good job.
Weddle just locked down Cameron when he went higher up the ground.
All our undersized defenders have it rough. Sicily, as our captain, needs to recognise that he cannot always play loose when that currently isn't his role.

Sicily playing loose is a key to Hawthorn winning though. The coaches need to manufacture a set up where he can do it.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

The rules are actually s**t. Take rule 18.6 - Holding the Ball - this is an extract from the official rules;

View attachment 1946963
What does that even mean? "a field Umpire shall award a Free Kick if that Player elects to Incorrectly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled" except if "the player genuinely attempts" or "the Legal Tackle cause the football to be dislodged".

My interpretation of this is it is next to impossible for the umpire to award a free kick for incorrect disposal unless the player blatantly throws it.

So what is the point of a tackle?

And some people say that a free kick is not meant to be a reward, well the AFL rules specifically state; "The Player who has Possession of the Football will be provided an opportunity to dispose of the football before rewarding an opponent for a Legal Tackle."

The bar for achieving that reward is pretty much unattainable.

This rule drives me completely crazy.

It was joke that was allowed to start in 2016.

The bigger joke is we are one of the last teams to know how to effectively achieve these throws without being pinged

 

[Gut Runner]

Sicily playing loose is a key to Hawthorn winning though. The coaches need to manufacture a set up where he can do it.

You cannot play loose at a CB though and he needs to do much better.

If we keep adding Talls down back then opposition smalls will get a hold of us.

Sicily is currently getting toweled up by the 3rd tall and he is terribly out of form. My opinion.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Those two mistakes cost us 4 goals on their own. 2 goals we didn't kick and they rebounded it the other way.

Plus very deflating to the morale of the team.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Add to that the "taking advantage" play on from Moore's high free.

I think thatight have been Bruest as well who took the advantage?

I hope they look at those incidents in the match review, it's pretty bizarre that they can happen in a professional sporting environment.