Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[martinson]

If there is one thing, in my experience, that Australians love more than claiming they aren’t a racist country, is being incredibly racist.

Every country is racist. I don't think we're in the class of some others if the degree of it matters.

Coach not needed for trade and draft period, Fagan's input would have already been given re Dunkley/Gunston/Fletcher etc, if anything unexpected unfolds in the meantime list management and Danny Daly will take care of it.

Interim Head coach not really needed until pre season training starts around mid to late November, any planning for this can also be done by Daly, conditioning staff and senior assistants.

This will go on beyond November imo.

 

[Gibbo_88]

A few comments that Fagan should never work in football again if the allegations are true. His time as a Lions coach might be over in the next month or so but that doesn't mean he's someone that is beyond help, education and forgiveness and can return to footy and help others where he potentially made a mistake. Some people are beyond help and education on these type of issues but majority of people don't want to cause harm to others.

I've listened to Eddie Betts talk about a range of Indigenous issues and racism and he talks of education and more understanding, not hate and banning people.

 

[Brett C]

I can't help but coming back to the fact a child is dead, when it didn't need to be.

This is so far past Essendon drug saga or Adelaide camp s**t.

Maybe that's what is driving my vitriol, I'm just shattered by that one fact.

That a child might have been sacrificed on the alter of success.

Allegedly at the alter of success, your vitriol isn’t based on any facts at this point.

Fonzie would be proud that you keep jumping that shark.

 

[trikster]

Thankfully I was in the office today so was able to avoid 12 hours straight of this being re-hashed. One thing that irks me is Gil (and most journos) slipping in the "Fagan/Clarkson/Burt(?) will all be afford natural justice, etc" well guess what, they have already lost that by the report being completed and subsequently details being made public without them even being asked if any of it is true. They will forever be guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Saucery]

Allegedly at the alter of success, your vitriol isn’t based on any facts at this point.

Fonzie would be proud that you keep jumping that shark.

Brett stop harassing me please, if you have anything useful to add please do so.

 

[Flossie32]

I’m liking Brisbane lions statement and response. It appears that standing down Chris Fagan is a mark of respect to our indigenous players. (More so if Chris has stood himself down.)
Im also guessing that Andrew Crowell

Andrew Crowell

Age

47

Ht

189cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.6

1star

HB

4.4

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.0

3star

and our indigenous liaison team are working closely with all players around this. So from this viewpoint not too concerned about what our players are thinking (not mind readers after all!). Plus need to remember and appreciate we are so much better staffed for all welfare now.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

What if a player went the club and said I got my girlfriend pregnant- she does not want the baby, at all, what can I do? And they reply is here are your options? Or my partner is pregnant- she lives in northern western Australian, will not move for anything, loves it there- but she does not want to have the baby if I am going to live in Melbourne. Can I play here but go home during the week? Club - that’s not going to work unfortunately. Player- so what can I do? Club- Well you need to make a decision, you can’t be two places at once. You can go home but we can’t keep you on the list…..player- so what? Have an abortion? Club - that’s not what are suggesting, you have some decisions too make. Who knows?? It’s not beyond the realm of possibility is it?

 

[Sausages]

If there is one thing, in my experience, that Australians love even more than claiming they aren’t a racist country, it is being incredibly racist.

I disagree although agree by way of acknowledging via dereliction of duty.

We like being passive towards calling out racism.

We will call out drunkards, abusers of women and children, those of differing sexual preference, shit-campaigners of all types....

But call out against racism, publicly, and you are often times faced with silence from surrounding patrons. Not all the time.

But sometimes. The fact that I need to get a read of the room beforehand is ridiculous. But the reality I have learnt is what I am conveying.

Irrespective of anything else, you all know how it rolls...."if ya not part of the solution....."

One issue I have is that we don't adequately educate but that is a totally separate topic and no derail will be entered into

 

[nup]

If you are in fact you are innocent the last thing you would do or be advised to do is respond to anything you believe to be fabricated, exaggerated , distorted or untrue.

Absolutely. I just thought Id share this since earlier in the discussion there was uncertainty about how much time they had been given to respond.

 

[Saucery]

What if a player went the club and said I got my girlfriend pregnant- she does not want the baby, at all, what can I do? And they reply is here are your options? Or my partner is pregnant- she lives in northern western Australian, will not move for anything, loves it there- but she does not want to have the baby if I am going to live in Melbourne. Can I play here but go home during the week? Club - that’s not going to work unfortunately. Player- so what can I do? Club- Well you need to make a decision, you can’t be two places at once. You can go home but we can’t keep you on the list…..player- so what? Have an abortion? Club - that’s not what are suggesting, you have some decisions too make. Who knows?? It’s not beyond the realm of possibility is it?

Q

 

[Hollow Knight]

There are many “what ifs” that could be proposed by us, but they really aren’t helpful.

I’m sure the AFL process will allow Clarkson, Fagan etc the chance to provide their own recollections of what happened.

 

[martinson]

I’m liking Brisbane lions statement and response. It appears that standing down Chris Fagan is a mark of respect to our indigenous players. (More so if Chris has stood himself down.)
Im also guessing that Andrew Crowell and our indigenous liaison team are working closely with all players around this. So from this viewpoint not too concerned about what our players are thinking (not mind readers after all!). Plus need to remember and appreciate we are so much better staffed for all welfare now.

This report relates to historical cases .

Any of us who have been involved in the law or other issues involving historical cases knows that the ramifications have a way of damaging the victims the longer time elapses and that recollections will vary as someone recently said.

So I think guilty or not Fagan and Clarkson are on borrowed time in their prospective roles . Unless they're vindicated which will take considerable time. Or the cases have been grossly exaggerated/fabricated which at this point at least seems unlikely and would also take considerable time to establish.

I do think the narrative as outlined by the ABC is embellished and highly unlikely to have occurred in the manner in which it's been presented. But that doesn't mean the basis behind it isn't a reality to those who have suffered.

 

[Saucery]

R U Ok?

Mocking mental health memes is actually pretty shithouse. STOP trolling me.

 

[Jeremiah001]

R U Ok?

Give it a rest.

 

[BangyBangy]

They're both guilty. AFL 360 are presenting their show as if the accusations are irrefutable truths.

Case closed. Don't bother investigating this further.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Q

Q

Is that short for something? I’m being serious?

 

[Maze]

I'm totally a fence sitter on this but I can't help but find the Lions statement intriguing

"In a statement, the Lions said Fagan was not consulted as part of Hawthorn's review"

Does this suggest the report has been compiled without interviews with the accused? Surely the report authors would immediately question the people accused and enter that in the report??? I'm happy to stand corrected

Please don't take this as support for either side but the allegations just don't add up in the format presented. I'd certainly be waiting till at least the accused have added context and content to the allegations before making any judgement.

 

[Brett C]

Give it a rest.

No I’m okay

 

[Jeremiah001]

No I’m okay

Not from what i can see.

 

[Hollow Knight]

One issue I have is that we don't adequately educate but that is a totally separate topic and no derail will be entered into

Agreed. However the powers that be pretend they want education but they really don’t.

It’s always amusing to see the Andrew Bolt types decry “cancel culture” and suggest that people need to be better educated instead. Then when teachers actually teach our real history we get accused of imposing a “woke agenda”.

Can’t win.

 

[Lions time]

There are many “what ifs” that could be proposed by us, but they really aren’t helpful.

I’m sure the AFL process will allow Clarkson, Fagan etc the chance to provide their own recollections of what happened.

I 100% agree. The problem is that Chris won’t have a reputation left before he can even put forward his side of events.


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[Hollow Knight]

More mocking your false victim complex when you’ve spouted nonsense across this thread.

This isn’t constructive at all. Please stop.

 

[Saucery]

Is that short for something? I’m being serious?

Sorry being obtuse, I think that is pretty conspiratory.

Occam's razor is a principle of theory construction or evaluation according to which, other things equal, explanations that posit fewer entities, or fewer kinds of entities, are to be preferred to explanations that posit more.

 

[Saucery]

More mocking your false victim complex when you’ve spouted nonsense across this thread.

Brett PLEASE stop harassing me.

 

[Brett C]

This isn’t constructive at all. Please stop.

And of course you’ve called out his previous comments that rise to ridiculous levels? I’m guessing not