Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[On the quiet]

LOL

Q&A absolutely stinks but it is very funny that you think the panel is stacked with left wing people. I guess if you think the labor party are communists then that juices the numbers.

Where did I mention the labor party are communists? It is not the 1960's

 

[M Malice]

I am all for a full independent impartial (ie. no AFL involvement) case with evidence being given under oath, need to get to the bottom of this with as little ambiguity as possible.

 

[Viceregal]

So guessing getting Gil, Clarko, Fages, the various families and players to all sit down with experienced Aboriginal Elders after spending a month or two deep out back in separate tribal communities in an effort to come to a community of understanding, a sharing of stories and a rebuilding of fractured relationships for the sake of players past, present and future rather than an adversarial zero-sum legal battle is looking somewhat less likely?

Two quotes spring to mind ...

"Though no one can go back and make a brand-new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand-new ending."

“You can be sorry and you can be forgiven but you can’t call back the futures that your bad decisions lost”

 

[Section 5]

We have not heard much from the ABC since the original article
But they put this statement out today
Not sure if the Jackson's are related

Correcting the Record - Media Centre - About the ABC

Information about the Australian Broadcasting Corporation including history, management, corporate reports, plans and submissions and the latest news from our media centre.

about.abc.net.au

The ABC would like to address misleading public commentary regarding Russell Jackson’s reporting on allegations of racism that have been made against Hawthorn Football Club.

It has been stated or implied that the three former Hawthorn employees named in the story were denied a fair opportunity to properly respond to the ABC’s reporting.

This is incorrect.

On Monday 19 September and into the following day all three were contacted multiple times by the ABC, via email, phone call and text message. Also contacted were the media teams at Hawthorn and the Brisbane Lions and the personal management of one of the individuals.

They were provided with all relevant information about the allegations. They were asked detailed and open-ended questions that gave them the opportunity to fully respond to all the allegations.

After initially receiving no response, the ABC contacted all the parties again and offered them more time in which to respond. We again received no response to the questions.

Statements provided by Hawthorn and the AFL were included in the story and the ABC has reported comments that have subsequently been made.

While Russell Jackson’s story reports on the existence of the external review commissioned by Hawthorn, and some allegations made within it, his story was not based on that review and does not quote its contents. His reporting was based entirely on original interviews conducted with primary sources after he was alerted to this difficult and important story.

His reporting has been accurate, fair and ethical.

Media contact: Sally Jackson | ABC Communications

jackson.sally@abc.net.au

 

[Sausages]

Fair enough.

I'm intrigued, on first reading, at the comment "alerted to this.....story".

By whom?

 

[BRAB]

Fair enough.

I'm intrigued, on first reading, at the comment "alerted to this.....story".

By whom?

Your are absolutely obsessed with this part of the story aren’t you?

 

[Sausages]

Your are absolutely obsessed with this part of the story aren’t you?

OH C'MON BRAB !!!!!

Everyone needs a hobby

 

[Doc Hattori]

Q & A is much worse, have a panel of about 3 to 4 left leaning guest and one token centre-right liberal. Then there is the left leaning audience asking their bias questions. ABC receives over $1B annually.

Stick to Sky then & you'll hear what you want.

 

[Saucery]

There will be no cover up, rug sweeping or white washing and this won't be over soon.

Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett says the club was 'horrified' by racism allegations

Club president Jeff Kennett has written to Hawthorn members to reassure them the club will cooperate with the AFL's investigation into historic racism allegations, but also to express disappointment that club figures were publicly named.

www.abc.net.au

The AFL Players Association wants the inquiry into the allegations to be an independent process, taken out of the AFL's hands.

"The AFL setting up a panel is not how I think this should play out, I think it should be independent and there are discussions going on at the moment around that," Marsh said.

The federal government has today announced a new Safety In Sport division will be set up at Sport Integrity Australia to help monitor and respond to allegations of mistreatment of athletes.

The government said it was in response to ongoing allegations of abuse and mistreatment across a range of sports.

Federal Sports Minister Anika Wells said the government would not dictate to the AFL how it should go about investigating the allegations at Hawthorn.

"I think what's important here is we need to provide alternative methods for athletes without either encroaching on NSOs [National Sporting Organisations], but without letting them off the hook," she said.


Looks like the AFL finally will have to answer to a body (the SIS) for oversight, massive can of worms and closet skeletons incoming.

 

[Sausages]

Yeah.....Gil ain't gonna enjoy his last few months in the hot seat

 

[M Malice]

OH C'MON BRAB !!!!!

Everyone needs a hobby

BRABs hobby is a part time gig as the Nerang Tourism Minister.

 

[Saucery]

Yeah.....Gil ain't gonna enjoy his last few months in the hot seat

Yes the Feds set up a new flying squad (the SIS) to provide oversite to ALL professional sports.

The AFLPA need to demonstrate separation from the AFL to 'seem' to be legitimate.

Gil won't slip out of this unscathed, though he will throw anyone under the bus to demonstrate his contrition.

 

[On the quiet]

Stick to Sky then & you'll hear what you want.

getting seriously side tracked, and at this stage I support the anonymity of the complainants as they are less powerful than the AFL or lawyered up coaches. That said, have also posted that I believe in the main legal tenant of innocent until proven guilty and Fages needs due process.

ABC Q & A ratings have fallen off a cliff since Tony Jones left. As a side note how do you think we are going with some of the below social issues, which are regularly aired on shows such as Q & A?

#Communist Chinese infiltrated some of our most prestige Unis. Completely influencing some program offerings.
#School kids taking days off school to strike about climate change, when as a nation we contribute less than 1.4% to the planets total emissions. Try and protest in China.
#The school curriculum has been changed that much, that the standard of our education compared to other OECD countries has dropped off the cliff.
#Teachers being sacked or disciplined for using pronouns when that might offend a student who believes their sexuality is non binary
#Individuals and institutions like Israel Falou being discriminated against freedom of speech on religious grounds
#Protestors gluing themselves to roads, railways etc for climate change. I support climate change policy and have solar and water tanks but it needs to be done gradually otherwise we seriously risk closing down further Australian manufacturing.
#If we stop mining coal how do we continue to support worthy causes such as NDIS, Medicare, let alone the plethora of welfare.
#Politicians and senior bureaucrats unable to define what is a female
#serious issues with Youth crime here in QLD, and having spent many years working the the youth justice area, fully support well targeted rehab: programs, but a small percentage need to be dealt punitively.

As a side note in the US (where else) a male who ID as a female was sent to a women's prisons and got two inmates pregnant, talk about the fox in the chook pen.

 

[Sausages]

As a side note in the US (where else) a male who ID as a female was sent to a women's prisons and got two inmates pregnant, talk about the fox in the chook pen.

Quote of the thread I reckon

That's golden mate

 

[Cubs2Lions]

getting seriously side tracked, and at this stage I support the anonymity of the complainants as they are less powerful than the AFL or lawyered up coaches. That said, have also posted that I believe in the main legal tenant of innocent until proven guilty and Fages needs due process.

ABC Q & A ratings have fallen off a cliff since Tony Jones left. As a side note how do you think we are going with some of the below social issues, which are regularly aired on shows such as Q & A?

#Communist Chinese infiltrated some of our most prestige Unis. Completely influencing some program offerings.
#School kids taking days off school to strike about climate change, when as a nation we contribute less than 1.4% to the planets total emissions. Try and protest in China.
#The school curriculum has been changed that much, that the standard of our education compared to other OECD countries has dropped off the cliff.
#Teachers being sacked or disciplined for using pronouns when that might offend a student who believes their sexuality is non binary
#Individuals and institutions like Israel Falou being discriminated against freedom of speech on religious grounds
#Protestors gluing themselves to roads, railways etc for climate change. I support climate change policy and have solar and water tanks but it needs to be done gradually otherwise we seriously risk closing down further Australian manufacturing.
#If we stop mining coal how do we continue to support worthy causes such as NDIS, Medicare, let alone the plethora of welfare.
#Politicians and senior bureaucrats unable to define what is a female
#serious issues with Youth crime here in QLD, and having spent many years working the the youth justice area, fully support well targeted rehab: programs, but a small percentage need to be dealt punitively.

As a side note in the US (where else) a male who ID as a female was sent to a women's prisons and got two inmates pregnant, talk about the fox in the chook pen.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

apathy heals all

come join my apathetic flock of goats climbing the mountain of FAKE NEWS and COMMUNIST JOURNALISTS from the WOKE BRIGADE. we will overcome this hurdle and enter a fully enlightened world where nothing matters, you don't care about anything else other than your own happiness

and the lions footy club as well

oh right not to derail this thread.... um I think the newest info is pretty sad and hard to read, lets wait and see for these hearings.. hopefully everyone can get their voice in and we can get an understanding of what went wrong

 

[SRH17]

“lawyered up coaches”
You do realise those leveling the allegations have also lawyered up?

 

[M Malice]

“lawyered up coaches”
You do realise those leveling the allegations have also lawyered up?

Spot on, not many mentioning this in threads on Big Footy, some even use it as a subtle cudgel against the coaches, Fagan and Clarkson would be mad not to Lawyer up considering the severity of the allegations... it is career ending stuff as well as reputation destroying.

 

[lioninthesand]

Spot on, not many mentioning this in threads on Big Footy, some even use it as a subtle cudgel against the coaches, Fagan and Clarkson would be mad not to Lawyer up considering the severity of the allegations... it is career ending stuff as well as reputation destroying.

I don’t think anyone in their right mind would question or begrudge the accused retaining the services of a legal team.

 

[CarterS]

Luke Hodge has just put out a statement

 

[jonnobackpocket]

I might not have a full understanding but why is it being stamped as racism? Did whatever happen, happen because the players were indigenous ? or because of the situation they found themselves in? Was a hard line (I understand this maybe an understatement if some of the allegations are true) taken with non indigenous players as well? Obviously exactly what happened will help answer the question…….

 

[Viceregal]

I might not have a full understanding but why is it being stamped as racism? Did whatever happen, happen because the players were indigenous ? or because of the situation they found themselves in? Was a hard line (I understand this maybe an understatement if some of the allegations are true) taken with non indigenous players as well? Obviously exactly what happened will help answer the question…….

We don't know if it the same for all players - at this point we only have stories from the aboriginal players/families.

If it was the same way for all players but affected the aboriginal players more due to their culture then some would still consider it racism under the banner of disparate impact.

 

[dlanod]

I might not have a full understanding but why is it being stamped as racism? Did whatever happen, happen because the players were indigenous ? or because of the situation they found themselves in? Was a hard line (I understand this maybe an understatement if some of the allegations are true) taken with non indigenous players as well? Obviously exactly what happened will help answer the question…….

The initial stories, and so far the worst accounts, are from the indigenous review and reports.

It's entirely possible that it was just a controlling and potentially abusive environment across the board, but so far the statements have been denying everything rather than saying "we did it to everyone". The examples for non-indigenous players at Hawthorn are controlling, but a lot more restrained by comparison.

 

[Sausages]

See, this is something that REALLY frustrates me.....

We can't even get the number of interviewees confirmed ahahaha

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/chris-fagan-statement-brisbane-lions-coach-responds-to-hawthorn-racism-allegations/news-story/af6444a9ee991416fc84dcc20f15f203

"Clarkson and Fagan were not interviewed as part of the review that started as a wellbeing check on the 21 Indigenous players."

21 there,,,,,,

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/hawthorn-racism-scandal-safe-environment-offered-for-those-not-willing-to-deal-directly-with-league/news-story/91a5c2c39f17c93ded693eff6cae8d37

"Egan spoke with 17 First Nations former players, partners and staff members, five of whom were willing to go on the record with their experiences, with some text messages, emails and written transcripts shared with the report authors."

.....but 17 here.

 

[Jivlain]

See, this is something that REALLY frustrates me.....

We can't even get the number of interviewees confirmed ahahaha

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/chris-fagan-statement-brisbane-lions-coach-responds-to-hawthorn-racism-allegations/news-story/af6444a9ee991416fc84dcc20f15f203

"Clarkson and Fagan were not interviewed as part of the review that started as a wellbeing check on the 21 Indigenous players."

21 there,,,,,,

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/hawthorn-racism-scandal-safe-environment-offered-for-those-not-willing-to-deal-directly-with-league/news-story/91a5c2c39f17c93ded693eff6cae8d37

"Egan spoke with 17 First Nations former players, partners and staff members, five of whom were willing to go on the record with their experiences, with some text messages, emails and written transcripts shared with the report authors."

.....but 17 here.

From the report:

23 players or staff, presumably 21 players. 17 chose to participate.