Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[buttermuffs]

Excellent article from Warner exposing the hypocrisy of the AFL. The Woke obsession starts at the top through Goyder,the beige CEO and his sidekick Kane.They need to focus on Football.

On moto g85 5G using BigFooty.com mobile app

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[dlanod]

Well you could be right.

Now that it's all over I presume nothing in the settlement would preclude the AFL from releasing their findings. Unless of course they're prejudicial to the AFL . Or maybe reflect poorly on anyone else involved and they'll just let sleeping dogs lie.

There might be something in the settlement - it seems like the case was pretty tenuous, so both might have agreed to not comment publicly any further as part of it, one because they didn't want further examination and the other because they just wanted it to go away. But that's basically your last point as well.

 

[notliondown]

Facts?? Do we have evidence this article was based on facts?

I believe the AFL has 6 other secret reports that contradict the first 2 secret reports and in fact say that Fagan is solely responsible for the Ukraine war and should be jailed.

I'm all for an opinion piece - that's the world we live in - but that's all it is. Opinion. Let's be careful in assuming anyone knows anything at all about anything in a word vomit like that.

I wonder how people like Mick cope when it rains... the sky is blue, it has to be blue, the sky is only blue there is no way it's not blue.

Nuance and complexity - the world we live in - is lost on people who make no effort to try and see other peoples views.

Sure the AFL is hypocritical. Hugely. A lot of things it does leave a lot to be desired.

But to suggest that trying to do anything to lead a social discourse, or that daring to raising any sort of social issue with the power it has to influence the thinking of millions of people if off remit is willfully ignorant.

The Hawthorn saga highlights just how complex and diverse a puzzle the AFL has to piece together - just like society really surprise surprise. No one size fits all solution will ever work nor keep everyone happy.

Surely they have to get some credit for trying but? And for takings it's "learnings" and for trying to ensure it doesn't happen again?

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

That's nice. I didn't assess a fact-free piece.

If we're still taking about that HS article, all I see is a lot of straight-out opinion, and opinion dressed as fact. Fair enough if you agree with everything there and they way it's expressed, but there's nothing there that can lay claim to accuracy -- it's just a view that's been filtered through a very narrow lens, as most HS opinion pieces are.

 

[buttermuffs]

Very gutsy of Mick to write that. It's his perspective which is arguable I suppose.

They'll go after him and taint him forever now.

He will keep every single one of his jobs and face no consequences what on earth are you talking about?

 

[Elixuh]

It’s the Horn of Gondor of dog whistles, except he used an actual normal human whistle.

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

Citation required

 

[martinson]

He will keep every single one of his jobs and face no consequences what on earth are you talking about?

I was more thinking SM actually on whatever I've seen of it.

So you think he should face consequences ?

 

[martinson]

I just read the Warner article on here and thought well he's going out on a limb there but fwiiw I hear similar opinions on some of the issues he raised from people who aren't unintelligent ,racist or homophobic , prudes or rusted on wedded to any political side as far as I can tell.

My personal view is that as a journo perhaps he should have toned it down a bit but obviously something's got under his skin.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

AFL = Woke Whores is my favourite take in this thread. So far.....

 

[M Malice]

AFL = Woke Whores is my favourite take in this thread. So far.....

IMO that phrase is a gross insult to Whores.

 

[martinson]

I'm just putting this out there.

Many decades ago I believed that anyone who disagreed with my admittedly 100% leftist views on social issues was stupid ,ignorant ,and just not a person I wanted to have anything to do with. We had names for them.

Looking back now I got that completely wrong. A similar proportion of those who agreed with me turned out to be arseholes as those who I thought were all arseholes.

So I don't judge anyone's character or anything else by where they stand on social and political issues.

 

[buttermuffs]

Yep which was my point ignoring the rest of the article yet a few are more interested in the other aspects of the piece.

They ignore that the AFL are whores to the betting industry, but that’s fine despite wanting clubs to get out of pokies venues and hypocrites when it comes to a myriad of other things all the while jamming so many positions down our throats that many are sick of, which agreed does have the opposite effect.

Anyway, good to see so many uninterested in the AFL covering up Fages being cleared and the pressure on him and others when it could have removed so much stress from Fages life but sure, Warner is the devil and the AFL never does any wrong. What a take.

Of course the AFL are massive hypocrites for all these things but when it comes to complaining about the ‘wokeness’ by Michael it is really telling that there’s little concern for the actual social issue itself.

If the AFL actually barred clubs from pokies or got rid of gambling adverts there would still be a large sect of people crying about how they are woke for restricting clubs from advertising something perfectly legal that is only for adults.

If the AFL barred Sydney from being sponsored by Qatar Airways there would be an outrage about how they are woke and preventing Sydney from profiting as a club all for their moral agenda.

From his other comments in the article it seems he would be just as content seeing the AFL never do anything regarding social issues rather than them actually do anything at all.

Also does anyone actually have access to the two reports that he mentions? I’m not doubting their existence but I’m doubting his phrasing that it exonerates everyone involved.

 

[Dalions]

I'm just putting this out there.

Many decades ago I believed that anyone who disagreed with my admittedly 100% leftist views on social issues was stupid ,ignorant ,and just not a person I wanted to have anything to do with. We had names for them.

Looking back now I got that completely wrong. A similar proportion of those who agreed with me turned out to be arseholes as those who I thought were all arseholes.

So I don't judge anyone's character or anything else by where they stand on social and political issues.

One of the biggest issues in America at the moment is that either you are left or you are right and there is no in between.
The country is so divided on Political matters that it affects the way they live their lives and the people they hang around. It really is quite a sad state of affairs.
There are good people on both sides.

 

[buttermuffs]

I was more thinking SM actually on whatever I've seen of it.

So you think he should face consequences ?

I don’t care for him. I think society is better off rejecting a lot of his rhetoric as it’s nothing but moral panic drivel that serves to divide. As mentioned in another thread, his complaints always target specific out groups for the benefit of his in group. He does not care for the social issues and is more annoyed that they are considered issues in the first place.

He is part of a much larger problem within Australia and around the world right now.

 

[M Malice]

I'm just putting this out there.

Many decades ago I believed that anyone who disagreed with my admittedly 100% leftist views on social issues was stupid ,ignorant ,and just not a person I wanted to have anything to do with. We had names for them.

Looking back now I got that completely wrong. A similar proportion of those who agreed with me turned out to be arseholes as those who I thought were all arseholes.

So I don't judge anyone's character or anything else by where they stand on social and political issues.

Brilliant Martin, I rarely talk politics in real life, I could not give a hoot re anyone's political bent, in most it makes up a minute fraction of who they are.

The natural world is where it's at, enjoy the simple things in life.... I got some news yesterday about an achievement of my 14 year old Granddaughter, I teared up out of happiness and couldn't get words out to express how proud I was of her... that is what life is about.

 

[buttermuffs]

I'm just putting this out there.

Many decades ago I believed that anyone who disagreed with my admittedly 100% leftist views on social issues was stupid ,ignorant ,and just not a person I wanted to have anything to do with. We had names for them.

Looking back now I got that completely wrong. A similar proportion of those who agreed with me turned out to be arseholes as those who I thought were all arseholes.

So I don't judge anyone's character or anything else by where they stand on social and political issues.

Might I ask what those leftist views were?

 

[martinson]

One of the biggest issues in America at the moment is that either you are left or you are right and there is no in between.
The country is so divided on Political matters that it affects the way they live their lives and the people they hang around. It really is quite a sad state of affairs.
There are good people on both sides.

100%.

 

[Elixuh]

The main thing that gets me about the Warner article and the people it is aimed at is that any issue is binary. It is either good or bad. There's no room for complexity or nuance. And the undertone of the view is positioned to favour intolerance and exclusivity.

 

[martinson]

Might I ask what those leftist views were?

Well I ended up in the lock up a few times/stop the war /freedom for Palestine/equality for women , homosexuals /all big companies were bad /banks profiteering / the US/Israel was the devil / higher wages better conditions for workers.....

The late sixties, early seventies was a time of tumultuous social change.

Name any issue on that side of politics and I was red hot on it

 

[martinson]

The main thing that gets me about the Warner article and the people it is aimed at is that any issue is binary. It is either good or bad. There's no room for complexity or nuance. And the undertone of the view is positioned to favour intolerance and exclusivity.

I don't think he quite meant it that way but that's how it probably came across.

 

[buttermuffs]

Well I ended up in the lock up a few times/stop the war /freedom for Palestine/equality for women , homosexuals /all big companies were bad /banks profiteering / the US/Israel was the devil / higher wages better conditions for workers.....

The late sixties, early seventies was a time of tumultuous social change.

Name any issue on that side of politics and I was red hot on it

Those align relatively with my current views now as a mid twenties queer person so that’s neat.

I have discovered there’s some people who are massive assholes who share my beliefs and some people who I get along with better who don’t. However, it’s hard to get over the idea that these people who treat me nicely to my face agree with the concept I’m a danger to children and others for simply being transgender. It sucks and it hurts.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Of course the AFL are massive hypocrites for all these things but when it comes to complaining about the ‘wokeness’ by Michael it is really telling that there’s little concern for the actual social issue itself.

If the AFL actually barred clubs from pokies or got rid of gambling adverts there would still be a large sect of people crying about how they are woke for restricting clubs from advertising something perfectly legal that is only for adults.

If the AFL barred Sydney from being sponsored by Qatar Airways there would be an outrage about how they are woke and preventing Sydney from profiting as a club all for their moral agenda.

I think Mick's concerns are twofold. One, the so-called woke-ism, as you've pointed out, however, two, the AFL's apparent hypocrisy in applying these principles to only address certain social issues, ie those social issues it doesn't profit from.

Now, chances are Mick doesn't mind a punt and doesn't really give two hoots about whether the AFL profits from gambling or not. But the way he's written that piece, if you're going to come down on social issues, come down on all of them, rather than picking and choosing based on what you can and can't make money out of.

 

[Grasshopper17]

One of the biggest issues in America at the moment is that either you are left or you are right and there is no in between.
The country is so divided on Political matters that it affects the way they live their lives and the people they hang around. It really is quite a sad state of affairs.
There are good people on both sides.

This is a classic result of optional voting.

 

[BuntonRules]

I just come here to talk about the footy