News Hawthorn in the media 2024

[Strapping Young Lad]

Just like last years thread, whatever Barrett has to say is not Hawthorn in the media.

Couldn’t care less for his shit takes, they don’t belong here.

 

[KermitJagger]

As Montagna pointed out; we went from the very worst to the very best in one specific area of the game quite rapidly, whilst highlighting the adjustments we made to help achieve this.

If he can work it out then you can bet other teams would already be looking at ways to try and stifle us.

It's hardly unreasonable to ask whether we can keep that kind of scoring efficiency from centre clearances up.

He asked the question and then answered with "probably not", I reckon that's what people are annoyed at. It's also a bit of a poor analysis from the first half of the season where we had a differential of over 20 points a game in expected score, without Day. Unless another core mid gets injured I don't see a reason why we couldn't keep it up.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

He asked the question and then answered with "probably not"1, I reckon that's what people are annoyed at. It's also a bit of a poor analysis from the first half of the season where we had a differential of over 20 points a game in expected score, without Day. Unless another core mid gets injured I don't see a reason why we couldn't keep it up.

He also pointed out that we are 14th in centre
clearance differential. IMO the fact we were the worst at scoring from centre clearances for a period, and have now jumped to being the best for a period, literally highlights the disparity between our best and worst. The fluctuation is symptomatic of being a young and developing side.

I don't expect us to be able keep it up the scoring of centre clearances at a clear best in the league rate, we might drop back a little bit throughout the remainder of the season as teams attempt to make their own adjustments.

I believe that is what he is suggesting too, not that we would drop all the way back down to the bottom again.

 

[KermitJagger]

He also pointed out that we are 14th in centre
clearance differential. IMO the fact we were the worst at scoring from centre clearances for a period, and have now jumped to being the best for a period, literally highlights the disparity between our best and worst. The fluctuation is symptomatic of being a young and developing side.

I don't expect us to be able keep it up the scoring of centre clearances at a clear best in the league rate, we might drop back a little bit throughout the remainder of the season as teams attempt to make their own adjustments.

I believe that is what he is suggesting too, not that we would drop all the way back down to the bottom again, but may fall back a little.

Eh. It's a little bit more nuanced than that.

He's using averages like we've been playing out of our skin in just that area across a period of games, realistically the Adelaide game is dragging up our centre clearance score a mile. We scored 38 points from that source against them. Outside of that game it was:

13 against GWS
12 against Brisbane
8 against Port
7 against St Kilda

That's not radically different to the earlier parts of the season. So even though we weren't actually that good at scoring from centre clearance against St Kilda, Brisbane or GWS, we still managed to win. For contrast we lost against Geelong scoring 12 from Centre Clearance, and beat North scoring 22.

There are far more compelling stats from a defensive point of view that I posted somewhere else, I'll try to find them tomorrow.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Eh. It's a little bit more nuanced than that.

He's using averages like we've been playing out of our skin in just that area across a period of games, realistically the Adelaide game is dragging up our centre clearance score a mile. We scored 38 points from that source against them. Outside of that game it was:

13 against GWS
12 against Brisbane
8 against Port
7 against St Kilda

That's not radically different to the earlier parts of the season. So even though we weren't actually that good at scoring from centre clearance against St Kilda, Brisbane or GWS, we still managed to win. For contrast we lost against Geelong scoring 12 from Centre Clearance, and beat North scoring 22.

There are far more compelling stats from a defensive point of view that I posted somewhere else, I'll try to find them tomorrow.

What are our numbers like in relation to goals from opposition inside 50s? Early on it was like 1 in 3 - you're never going to win when the defence is haemorrhaging goals like that.

We've sorted that out, and it comes down to our half forwards pushing hard to the defensive side of the centre square. They may not get a stat, but they are doing enough to create perceived pressure, which then creates a turn over

 

[KermitJagger]

I found them tonight. These were prior to the GWS game:

1st for Ground Ball Get differential
1st for Defensive 1v1s lost (as in we've lost the least)
4th for limiting score off turnover
5th for limiting score off defensive transition
4th fewest opposition metres gained per disposal
3rd fewest opposition intercept marks
1st fewest opposition intercept possessions

Much more than the odd goal from stoppage, we've been a lot better from a system point of view. We've managed to balance attack without being too risky and turning the ball over, we're stopping opposition teams from attacking using dangerous space through the middle. On top of these stats we've also been 3rd for tackles and 2nd for tackles I50 across the past 5 weeks.

I understand Montagna going with the centre bounce scoring because it looks cool, but it's really been the effort based stuff we've turned around in a big way.

 

[KermitJagger]

What are our numbers like in relation to goals from opposition inside 50s? Early on it was like 1 in 3 - you're never going to win when the defence is haemorrhaging goals like that.

We've sorted that out, and it comes down to our half forwards pushing hard to the defensive side of the centre square. They may not get a stat, but they are doing enough to create perceived pressure, which then creates a turn over

We've certainly gotten better in that regard, and one of the core reasons is we've stopped giving the ball back so easily. We're around middle table for goals per inside 50 at the moment, hovering at around 22%.

A great example of how hard it is to analyse our season and the difference between now and before is that in the Sydney game alone there was a disparity in expected score of 50. -22.5 for us and +27.5 for them. Makes a big difference when the game was lost by 76.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I found them tonight. These were prior to the GWS game:

1st for Ground Ball Get differential
1st for Defensive 1v1s lost (as in we've lost the least)
4th for limiting score off turnover
5th for limiting score off defensive transition
4th fewest opposition metres gained per disposal
3rd fewest opposition intercept marks
1st fewest opposition intercept possessions

Much more than the odd goal from stoppage, we've been a lot better from a system point of view. We've managed to balance attack without being too risky and turning the ball over, we're stopping opposition teams from attacking using dangerous space through the middle. On top of these stats we've also been 3rd for tackles and 2nd for tackles I50 across the past 5 weeks.

I understand Montagna going with the centre bounce scoring because it looks cool, but it's really been the effort based stuff we've turned around in a big way.

Where did you get these stats? For future reference.

Eh. It's a little bit more nuanced than that.

He's using averages like we've been playing out of our skin in just that area across a period of games, realistically the Adelaide game is dragging up our centre clearance score a mile. We scored 38 points from that source against them. Outside of that game it was:

13 against GWS
12 against Brisbane
8 against Port
7 against St Kilda

That's not radically different to the earlier parts of the season. So even though we weren't actually that good at scoring from centre clearance against St Kilda, Brisbane or GWS, we still managed to win. For contrast we lost against Geelong scoring 12 from Centre Clearance, and beat North scoring 22.

There are far more compelling stats from a defensive point of view that I posted somewhere else, I'll try to find them tomorrow.

Yeah I appreciate that a lot more has gone into our improvement than simply a spike in our ability to score from centre clearances.

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I thought he was just talking about that one element of our game in isolation too.

So to suggest that it we might not keep that up isn't far fetched. Especially when you've pointed out that the Adelaide game has contributed greatly to the average increasing.

 

[KermitJagger]

Where did you get these stats? For future reference.



Yeah I appreciate that a lot more has gone into our improvement than simply a spike in our ability to score from centre clearances.

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I thought he was just talking about that one element of our game in isolation too.

So to suggest that it we might not keep that up isn't far fetched. Especially when you've pointed out that the Adelaide game has contributed greatly to the average increasing.

I always took it as a bit of a false premise. Can we keep it up? Who knows, doesn't really matter because the stats reflect that it wasn't really something we were keeping up anyway. There have been bigger wins in other areas.

For the stats, I use a combination of AFL Stats Pro for specific things and Wheeloratings (https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html?year=2024) for doing team/player comparisons. I have a bit of a Power BI situation of my own running just to be a nerd on BigFooty so some of the things aren't found on there.

The 1:1 numbers for example, we're allowing the 4th least 1:1s but have a better loss percentage than the other clubs in that group. Collingwood, Dogs, Sydney and us.

 

[unitedhawk]

Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere but it's a great story:

How a 20-year-old Hawks star ended up coaching under-16 boys

She's one of Hawthorn's rising stars but Mackenzie Eardley is also one of the game's rising coaches

www.afl.com.au

 

[The hands of stone]

Stats are great, they can and are important in analysing the game , your team and opponents.

But they can't measure things like team buy in , working to a plan and going that extra 1-2 % that the oppo aren't.

We currently have that last paragraph , while we do we are competitive and in the game against anyone .
It's something the analylists won't mention because it's not complicated or interesting enough .
But some of the callers using the 'eye test' have .

 

[DrkNyt]

Recorded after the Brisbane win, uploaded last night.

 

[KermitJagger]

Stats are great, they can and are important in analysing the game , your team and opponents.

But they can't measure things like team buy in , working to a plan and going that extra 1-2 % that the oppo aren't.

We currently have that last paragraph , while we do we are competitive and in the game against anyone .
It's something the analylists won't mention because it's not complicated or interesting enough .
But some of the callers using the 'eye test' have .

I think you can get an indication of buy in from stats, especially when you look at the effort based ones. Ground Ball gets, one percenters, tackles, pressure. We're doing well on all counts.

 

[Topiary]

As Montagna pointed out; we went from the very worst to the very best in one specific area of the game quite rapidly, whilst highlighting the adjustments we made to help achieve this.

If he can work it out then you can bet other teams would already be looking at ways to try and stifle us.

It's hardly unreasonable to ask whether we can keep that kind of scoring efficiency from centre clearances up.

And our defensive numbers are still very low. Both Montagna and King have been saying it for a month now. “We are far from the complete unit”.

We know that, that is why we continue to work the List Management market and other areas of improvement.

It is all about depth and flexibility and style and durability of play. We may be a work in progress but I am very happy with the incremental improvement and which team we can become. We now need to understand there will be more than a few bumps in the road, but the direction is good.

 

[KermitJagger]

And our defensive numbers are still very low. Both Montagna and King have been saying it for a month now. “We are far from the complete unit”.

We know that, that is why we continue to work the List Management market and other areas of improvement.

It is all about depth and flexibility and style and durability of play. We may be a work in progress but I am very happy with the incremental improvement and which team we can become. We now need to understand there will be more than a few bumps in the road, but the direction is good.

What do you mean defensive numbers?

 

[The hands of stone]

I think you can get an indication of buy in from stats, especially when you look at the effort based ones. Ground Ball gets, one percenters, tackles, pressure. We're doing well on all counts.

Ground ball gets is almost our 1 wood now . It's the standard and a high one

 

[bigconornash]

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Good use of Rebel Yell in the intro there.

 

[Roddy]

The media is actually all over us all of a sudden. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. It certainly brings added pressure....

 

[The hands of stone]

The media is actually all over us all of a sudden. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. It certainly brings added pressure....

Good thing . We need to learn and embrace the pressure and expectation .
It will hold us in good stead when we need it most down the track .

 

[Rocket72]

I found them tonight. These were prior to the GWS game:

1st for Ground Ball Get differential
1st for Defensive 1v1s lost (as in we've lost the least)
4th for limiting score off turnover
5th for limiting score off defensive transition
4th fewest opposition metres gained per disposal
3rd fewest opposition intercept marks
1st fewest opposition intercept possessions

Much more than the odd goal from stoppage, we've been a lot better from a system point of view. We've managed to balance attack without being too risky and turning the ball over, we're stopping opposition teams from attacking using dangerous space through the middle. On top of these stats we've also been 3rd for tackles and 2nd for tackles I50 across the past 5 weeks.

I understand Montagna going with the centre bounce scoring because it looks cool, but it's really been the effort based stuff we've turned around in a big way.

1st fewest opposition intercept possessions

This was an unsung part of our three-peat, I didn't realise we were travelling so well this year.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

The media is actually all over us all of a sudden. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing. It certainly brings added pressure....

The old reverse psych. They want us to fail

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[The hands of stone]

I'm pretty sure Kane just does our games now

 

[extractasam]

I feel like our group would view 10 wins from here as a failure. We get to 10 just playing and beating WCE, NTH, Richmond. Of the remaining games outside of that, Carlton, Adelaide(Away) Collingwood, Geelong (Away), GWS (Away) , Fremantle (TAS), they would absolutely be targeting minimum 2 wins from that.

 

[Hawthorn23]