NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 2

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf


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[4cunningTonneTruck]

Did the AFL have this report on their desk when North hired Clarkson?

 

[Gralin]

Did the AFL have this report on their desk when North hired Clarkson?

No

 

[the big lebowski]

Maybe by then he'd been told to STFU
I don't really care though.
The story isn't about Jackson as much as you want it to be

You don’t care that he potentially attacked a first year female president because he saw her as a soft target?

Kennet describes the allegations as a bump in the road - nothing

A week later

Hood makes an “ambiguous” comment, and gets an attack.

And you don’t care………..

If you don’t care about misogyny maybe you are invested in his story?

 

[Gralin]

Well I asked you what repercussions you expect Hawthorn to receive and you ignored it.

I've said compensation for the families involved either be a start.

I've also said I don't care about football repurcussions

 

[Gralin]

You don’t care that he potentially attacked a first year female president because he saw her as a soft target?

Kennet describes the allegations as a bump in the road - nothing

A week later

Hood makes an “ambiguous” comment, and gets an attack.

And you don’t care………..

If you don’t care about misogyny maybe you are invested in his story?

I was talking about Jackson not having tweeted about Kennett.

 

[Purplrrr]

Re the shack comment.

Clarko grew up in a small farming community, I’m of a similar age and also grew up in a small farming community.

With that background the reference to someone’s home as a shack isn’t from a racist perspective as it’s pretty common to call a basic house a shack.

I can see how it could have been interpreted differently and seems like a poor choice of words but given Clarko’s background I’d be extremely surprised if there was anything racial in the comment at all.

Beyond the specific word ‘shack’ there was surprise that kids pictures were on the wall, and that it was nice and clean. Unless there’s a stereotype that I’ve missed that all farming community homes have no pride in their kids and that they don’t keep them nice and clean, I think I’ll stick with my original interpretation. As far as I’m aware, dirty shacks with poor parenting stacks up with racist stereotypes. Or have I missed the slandering of rural communities somewhere along the way?

If, of course, it was said the way it was reported.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

No

You'd hope not

 

[Gralin]

You'd hope not

You guys announced him in August and the Jackson article came out late September supposedly 2 weeks after the Hawks received the report.

 

[mcnulty]

Beyond the specific word ‘shack’ there was surprise that kids pictures were on the wall, and that it was nice and clean. Unless there’s a stereotype that I’ve missed that all farming community homes have no pride in their kids and that they don’t keep them nice and clean, I think I’ll stick with my original interpretation. As far as I’m aware, dirty shacks with poor parenting stacks up with racist stereotypes. Or have I missed the slandering of rural communities somewhere along the way?

If, of course, it was said the way it was reported.

Have you seen young peoples houses? Have you seen young footballers‘ houses? I have and ‘tip’ would be more apt than shack for most in my experience. Nice and clean would be the definite exception. We’re really reaching here.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

What?

Last year, or earlier this year three kids from a remote NT community did a runner from the covid quarantine facility in the NT and were the result of a humungous manunt that got international coverage. The only people who really cared were anti vaxxers and they all thought it was a response to the pandemic not a typical law enforcement response to anything involving young balckfellas. They weren't even covid positive at the time.

The same government was extremely heavy handed with its treatment of indigenous communities during the same crisis, less than two years after it brought in bail laws that seem to target indigenous kids for very minor offences.

Less than 2 years ago the indigenous people of Wilcannia spent months trying to get reasonable support from NSW health for the inevitable arrival of covid and were awesome over quite a few times by some western NSW health staff.

Where is the outrage about these racist events with serious consequences? I think you over estimate how much people care about this stuff.

Altho people who don't really care about stuff often do make a great show of supporting the sacrifice of scapegoats, for appearance purposes. Just so they don't have to put any effort taking action to create meaningful change.

That’s the thing, we live in an age where the majority of the western world have ADHD when it comes to how they consume stories, and memories like a gold fish.

This Clarkson story has a few aspects to it making it one that is resonating more than the ones you have quoted:

1. Clarko and Fagan are big/celebrity names in a sport and industry which is wildly popular in Australia
2. The journalist - a Walkley award winning journalist no less - has a track record of breaking big stories about mistreatment and abuse in the aforementioned industry. He’s also published the story on the ABC.
3. The nature of the claims. Coerced abortion, SIM card removals, throw racism into the mix. It’s journalistic dynamite.

Due to this Jackson/Clarkson story ticking a lot of boxes, it has gotten into the mainstream consciousness while the stories you mention have not

Like you I think I that’s terrible and have no idea how that can change with people’s brains changing due to the influence of the internet, smart devices, social media and the way media companies manipulate all of this. But that’s a whole other discussion.

It’s also why I’m surprised there are North supporters celebrating Clarko starting coaching as if it’s some victory. It’s no victory, it’s just the media are letting this story simmer until the real shit starts to fly once the report comes out.

The fundamental question that remains is, how on earth is Clarko going to counter the claims in Jackson’s articles? Will there be mass retractions, Ian and all confessing to making it all up? Because in all this bizarre deflection North fans are coming up with about Jackson, about other cases, I haven’t seen anyone put forward exactly how Clarko and Fagan are going to turn this around, convince the public that the complainants are all liars (including an assistant coach) and start coaching young men again.

 

[Laphroaig]

It seems that both sides of this discussion have reached for the industrial size tub of extra mayonnaise and are slopping it around liberally...

 

[NarklesHelmet]

I don’t usually go anywhere near the main board for that reason. I was just curious about the vibe of this thread.

I was pretty surprised that the conversation was about North and not Hawthorn.

Same here.

When I look at this scandal, it’s a Hawthorn issue with North and Brisbane collateral damage (Clarko still hasn’t even started at Notth).

I think coming here the past few days since it was announced Clarko was to start at North seems to have brought more of a “club loyalty” aspect to it, and posters have come out now to defend “one of their own.”

It’s all a bit stupid honestly when this happens. Thought the same with the Essendon drug case and the way their fans reacted.

 

[Purplrrr]

Have you seen young peoples houses? Have you seen young footballers‘ houses? I have and ‘tip’ would be more apt than shack for most in my experience. Nice and clean would be the definite exception. We’re really reaching here.

Really? The surprise about it being clean was in the context that because it was clean it would therefore be ok for him to invite his teammates over… if all footballers live in unclean houses, presumably it wouldn’t be worth a comment about how surprising it was to Clarkson, and how suddenly this particular footballer would be acceptable to his fellow footballers.

 

[Val Keating]

Same here.

When I look at this scandal, it’s a Hawthorn issue with North and Brisbane collateral damage (Clarko still hasn’t even started at Notth).

I think coming here the past few days aknce it was announced Clarko was to start at North seems to have brought more of a “club loyalty” aspect to it, and posters have come out now to defend “one of their own.”

It’s all a bit stupid honestly when this happens. Thought the same with the Essendon drug case and the way their fan’s reacted.

Going by your previous post though, you’ve already made up your mind regarding what’s in the report.

 

[mcnulty]

I haven’t seen anyone put forward exactly how Clarko and Fagan are going to turn this around

"I'm just pleased that they've been able to identify a platform in which we can reveal some of the truth behind this and then we get onto it.”

I think it’s safe to say Clarkson‘s version of events will differ vastly from what we’ve seen put forward to far. Perhaps you should wait and see what that is.

 

[blackshadow]

Have you seen young peoples houses? Have you seen young footballers‘ houses? I have and ‘tip’ would be more apt than shack for most in my experience. Nice and clean would be the definite exception. We’re really reaching here.

Agreed.

The way I read it was Clarko attempting to give a real compliment.

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

You guys announced him in August and the Jackson article came out late September supposedly 2 weeks after the Hawks received the report.

Ah okay. Thanks

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Going by your previous post though, you’ve already made up your mind regarding what’s in the report.

You must’ve mistaken me for someone else.

I haven’t made up my mind on anything.

All I’m doing is trying to drill down on how anyone in this day and age can turn around the sort of claims made by Jackson.

I came to this thread mainly because there seems in the past few days to be a (in my place unfounded) confidence that “they’ll get off”, “it will all be swept under the carpet”.

All I’m trying to work out is how on earth that could happen with this type of story and what moves could be made in the modern media landscape to allow it?

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

Same here.

When I look at this scandal, it’s a Hawthorn issue with North and Brisbane collateral damage (Clarko still hasn’t even started at Notth).

I think coming here the past few days since it was announced Clarko was to start at North seems to have brought more of a “club loyalty” aspect to it, and posters have come out now to defend “one of their own.”

It’s all a bit stupid honestly when this happens. Thought the same with the Essendon drug case and the way their fans reacted.

While I'm not as quick as other North fans to jump to the defence of Clarko, it's understandable why some feel the need to considering North will be the team that are arguably hurt the most from this.

 

[Val Keating]

You must’ve mistaken me for someone else.

I haven’t made up my mind on anything.

All I’m doing is trying to drill down on how anyone in this day and age can turn around the sort of claims made by Jackson.

I came to this thread mainly because there seems in the past few days to be a (in my place unfounded) confidence that “they’ll get off”, “it will all be swept under the carpet”.

All I’m trying to work out is how on earth that could happen with this type of story and what moves could be made in the modern media landscape to allow it?

They could turn it around if the claims are untrue or exaggerated.

The men named have always been held in the highest esteem. They will soon be able to speak about it and defend themselves.

 

[mcnulty]

Agreed.

The way I read it was Clarko attempting to give a real compliment.

Head scratching stuff.

 

[Forward Press]

You'd hope not

I know we sometimes think football club administrations have a room temperature average IQ but if there was even credible information about Clarkson's involvement as one of the staff in the Egan report I highly doubt North would even include him on the list to be interviewed, much less hired.

Either way I don't think any reasonable person here blames North for hiring Clarkson initially - but there is reasonable discussion over how far they should be prepared to back him in, and whether he should have kept being stood down until the results of the independent AFL investigation are handed down. You can make legitimate cases for either perspective.

 

[sr36]

You must’ve mistaken me for someone else.

I haven’t made up my mind on anything.

All I’m doing is trying to drill down on how anyone in this day and age can turn around the sort of claims made by Jackson.

I came to this thread mainly because there seems in the past few days to be a (in my place unfounded) confidence that “they’ll get off”, “it will all be swept under the carpet”.

All I’m trying to work out is how on earth that could happen with this type of story and what moves could be made in the modern media landscape to allow it?

I think I've come around to your perspective. I can't see a realistic way out

I was thinking they'd survive an Inquiry finding that was only inappropriate intrusions into the lives of the players. And it's incredibly unlikely that isn't a finding. No one would give a shit if an inquiry found Collingwood had inappropriately intruded into the life of Jordan Degoey. But if they get done for that, which they almost certainly will, that plays out in the media as: "The results of the Hawthorn racism inquiry are in: Hawthorn are guilty of inappropriately intruding into the lives of their Indigenous players." Pretty bloody explosive and that's probably the best case scenario.

Magnify the explosion if they find any of the other things they're looking for: bullying (of indigenous players), racial stereotyping or racist behaviour.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

They could turn it around if the claims are untrue or exaggerated.

The men named have always been held in the highest esteem. They will soon be able to speak about it and defend themselves.

Yeah, that’s the point I’m getting at: how will these stories be shown to be untrue or exaggerated?

The complainants (at this stage) aren’t even taking part in the investigation. Their lawyer has been highly critical of the timeframe the AFL put on this report and mentioned the complainants are still suffering from trauma. A pre-emotive strike if I’ve ever seen one.

So this is already being set up for the findings from the report to be - if the report somehow exonerated Clarko and Fagan - called into question (at the very, very least) or completely discredited (most likely outcome).

Clarko coming out and telling “his side of the story” separately or as part of the review won’t get him off either - and in fact in the climate we live in could make things worse. “Privileged, powerful white male tells traumatized people of color that their trauma doesn’t exist”. These headlines write themselves. Any utterings from Clarko will just be used against him, it’s all about power imbalances these days and Clarko is at the right/wrong end of this one.

Jackson backtracking is the only way I could see Clarko gets out of this (you can tell North people think the same as you’ll notice they are going at him hard and hoping he’ll crack). The Sonja Hood tweet storm is seen as a victory on this front but they’ll need many more victories to make a dent into his reputation.

Jackson will just be waiting now for the report to drop. I reckon he knows he wins either way.

Report upholds his and Egan’s reports? Here comes another Walkley.

AFL Report invalidates his report and Clarko is exonerated? Here comes another slew of articles talking about trauma of victims being exacerbated by the AFL findings, let’s get people like the Project/ various shows from the ABC on board, here comes sponsors dropping, AFL have no choice but to get involved, bye bye Clarko.

Now North have (unadvisedly in my opinion) backed Clarko to the hilt instead of keeping him at arm’s length until the AFL report drops and they can monitor the fallout, their only hope to avoid the lose/lose scenario painted in the above paragraphs is Jackson backtracking. Expect the attacks to ramp up even more on him from here on in.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

While I'm not as quick as other North fans to jump to the defence of Clarko, it's understandable why some feel the need to considering North will be the team that are arguably hurt the most from this.

For sure, horrible situation for North and their fans. You’d have to be heartless to not feel for North in this situation.

But they are now putting themselves in the firing line unnecessarily by having Clarko start: could have (and I think should have) delayed until the report drops and they can monitor the fallout.