NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[The Nostradamus]

Clarko seems to be cold, a cold person. Colder than a vampire's demeanour

and yet the majority of the players who have played under him love him and speak highly of him including Rioli and Burgoyne

 

[Blue1980]

If clarkson were black the claimants were white I would feel exactly the same way. Why are you looking at it like that? It’s genuinely an awful way to frame it. Clarkson irrespective of his colour has a history of decades of caring about the welfare of others. He is known as someone who cares about and given huge amounts of time to the indigenous community. Why is this being ignored?

People can do good and bad things, it’s not binary. He doesn’t have to be spending every waking minute planning atrocities against aboriginal people for this to be true.

He also has a reputation for being ruthless and he himself has even mentioned about players getting rid of bad influences in their lives, so I don’t think these stories are such a great stretch TBH.

FWIW even if these players were white it would be shocking. The fact it seems like aboriginal players have been targeted does give it another layer of awful though.

 

[RJK Tiger]

No it is not. Report gets done then they get opportunity to follow up.

Exactly.

This story is littered with realities that cannot be made up

Miscarriages

Abortions

Couples breaking up

People moving out of their residence

People emailing the club and asking for ansywer

People calling the police and asking for checks

Coaches walking through a player and his partners home & removing them & their possessions

If any one of these above facts are true, its bloody near impossible to deny this.

A bad enough person might make up a story about their dead baby - but its not something "People" do - meaning more than 1 doing that in the same story as others, without any real direct link or incentive to do so.

 

[hirdylloydy1]

While winning is important, peoples lives have a lot more value. Maybe he needs perspective

 

[Number37]

It is possible that the indigenous person is lieing, are you saying 100% that he is not lieing and how would you know either way unless you were there? Hopefully it's more a case of the truth being somewhere in the middle between telling a player to get his partner to have an abortion and Clarko's complete denials. Obviously as well Hawthorn need to get an Indigenous welfare manager full time at the Club to oversee/manage all these types of issues.

Clarko didn't deny the specific allegations. He denied wrongdoing, in general.

I was not afforded any due process and I refute any allegation of wrongdoing or misconduct and look forward to the opportunity to be heard as part of the AFL external investigation.

 

[jenny61_99]

By saying that (based on my assessment) they have (at the very least) have been misrepresented. If I had to bet I would say that Clarkson had some tough conversations with some kids that were on what he considered a bad path that would lead to greater issues down the track and he guided them with their best interests at heart. Am I allowed to voice that belief or should it be silenced because others don’t share it?

You think that justifies the alleged actions taken? A player effectively taken from his home, forced to live with a coach, his SIM card replaced so as to limit the contact he had with partner and family. His partner left to manage a toddler and a pregnancy on her own while desperately trying to get him back?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Are you suggesting that the racial element should be ignored?

Obviously if allegations are true, then some of the indigenous folks at Hawthorn have been treated terribly, but how have people come to the conclusion that this treatment was exclusive to indigenous folks?

Or simply that Clarko and co should only be judged for their actions and not those of Colonial governors?

That people should be held accountable for their actions.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

People can do good and bad things, it’s not binary. He doesn’t have to be spending every waking minute planning atrocities against aboriginal people for this to be true.

He also has a reputation for being ruthless and he himself has even mentioned about players getting rid of bad influences in their lives, so I don’t think these stories are such a great stretch TBH.

FWIW even if these players were white it would be shocking. The fact it seems like aboriginal players have been targeted does give it another layer of awful though.

Why do we think aboriginal players were targeted? Has anyone interviewed others from the club that might have been in a similar position?

 

[RJK Tiger]

Clarko didn't deny the specific allegations. He denied wrongdoing, in general.

If he even knew about it and did nothing he should never work with AFL players again.

 

[RAPPA]

and yet the majority of the players who have played under him love him and speak highly of him including Rioli and Burgoyne

No one can deny that he has his supporters and advocates. The impression I get from Clarkson is a hardened individual on the relentless pursuit for sustained success. A bit like tough love. If you're prepared to ride the waves and forgo some of the prickly aspects of his character, then it may bear some fruit. But I just can't see him as an empathetic, cry on the shoulder type of person. Unfortunately, as horrific as the allegations are, it's unsurprising that it's true when Clarkson is the alleged perpetrator.

 

[glengowan]

So what is the answer?

Clubs have limited list spots and picks. It is an elite sports where an athlete must make significant sacrifices to succeed. When you only have a handfull of selections each year how can a club just ignore a players background and upbringing? Remember there are hundreds of kids desperately wanting to get drafted, some are more focused and have more support than others to succeed.

Simpson made headlines when the AFL cut the soft cap and dozens of support staff were let go. He basically said clubs will be forced to only be drafting from private schools as the support needed for underprivilaged kids was now taken away.

One obvious question is how many clubs employ indigenous engagement / support officers? Some of those positions were cut / reduced due to covid and I recall some clubs didnt have one. That needs to change and mandated. The AFL and AFLPA need those position in their own organisations as well to provide additional avenues for support outside the players club.

The AFL holds a induction week for draftees. It would be interesting what that encompasses and does it educate new draftees on work place bullying / racism and what rights they have as a new draftee not in a postion of power.

To those running and grabbing the pitch forks and asking for blood we need to stop and let the process unfold. The accusations are disturbing and whilst the players who have spoken out should not be attacked it is also fair that the people accused should also have their say. Being 10 years ago doesnt help with people recalling exactly what was said and how it was said. And perception and understanding differs between individuals with different backgrounds and cultures.

This issue is not a simple open and shut case.

They could stop being so hypocritical for one!

Why the draft system in the first place?

The AFL is all about money and power. They'll put their hand up for any cause if it makes them a dollar and they'll stamp all over anything that gets in its way.

Just like some clubs and individuals are blinded in the pursuit of "success".

There's no excuse for the way this has been handled. It's symptomatic of what the AFL is. That is, 10 Victorian clubs doing their best to beat each other, survive and prosper.

 

[Descent]

No one can deny that he has his supporters and advocates. The impression I get from Clarkson is a hardened individual on the relentless pursuit for sustained success. A bit like tough love. If you're prepared to ride the waves and forgo some of the prickly aspects of his character, then it may bear some fruit. But I just can't see him as an empathetic, cry on the shoulder type of person. Unfortunately, as horrific as the allegations are, it's unsurprising that it's true when Clarkson is the alleged perpetrator.

The institutionalised mind is loyal to the institution.

 

[Forward Press]

If clarkson were black the claimants were white I would feel exactly the same way. Why are you looking at it like that? It’s genuinely an awful way to frame it. Clarkson irrespective of his colour has a history of decades of caring about the welfare of others. He is known as someone who cares about and given huge amounts of time to the indigenous community. Why is this being ignored?

A leader of a country in the 1930s and 1940s was a decorated war hero, did not drink or smoke, was a vegetarian and advocated for animal rights. Not exactly judged based solely on those things today...

Why should Clarkson's prior work with indigenous communities absolve him of these allegations?

 

[The Lone Latic]

Surely Gilligan is tarnished from all this. Cant possibly be off to run the Olympics.

Under his time, its been scandal after scandal. Off the top of my head...

1) drug saga
2) adelaide issue
3) aFL house culture issues
4) female umpiring issues
5) mortgaging Marvel as the AFL suddenly ran out of money 2 weeks into covid
6) multiple racism stories now

Doesnt look like a CEO that leads great culture. But he is one that cashes in on token gestures and sweeping things under the rug



Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

Is it any surprise that one of his siblings is also a big part of the AFL media landscape? Based on a very quick read of his wiki, Hamish only joined thr boradcasting booth the year Gil made COO. Prior to that, some of his achievements included co founding a management company to license the operation of the Hall of Fame that was described as "hopelessly insolvent" by the Federal Court of Australia. Ya know, connections and all.....

 

[jenny61_99]

If clarkson were black the claimants were white I would feel exactly the same way. Why are you looking at it like that? It’s genuinely an awful way to frame it. Clarkson irrespective of his colour has a history of decades of caring about the welfare of others. He is known as someone who cares about and given huge amounts of time to the indigenous community. Why is this being ignored?

I think there were many white families who looked out for the indigenous children that were taken from their families, all sure they were doing the right thing.

Only problem is, they weren’t.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Why do we think aboriginal players were targeted? Has anyone interviewed others from the club that might have been in a similar position?

True, but i could definitely see how it happened. Aboriginal players moving from their local homes to Melbourne are the widest eyed kids you will ever find.

Pedo's dont try to rape confident kids from strong homes. They look for the weak, broken ones who are not as experienced in how to handle the abuse. From reading the stories it certainly sounds like the way they were targeted they would have known that shit would not fly to even a young white kid from a private school etc.They chose their target specifically for how they knew they would respond

 

[Blue1980]

I don't think Clarkson would be wise to get into a character assassination battle.

Particularly as the most likely thing to occur next is for mud to get leaked about all manner of Clarko excesses.There will be more senior figures implicated on the edges or even in the middle of the story and the defence they and the media will go with is a Svengali leader who they were powerless to resist. I can't see this going any other way.

If you read between the lines of what Hodge has been saying over recent months, North could be dodging a bullet.

I think later on at hawthorn he had too much power, especially after Kennett went the first time.

Not that I am a Kennett fan, but he was at least someone else powerful who wouldn’t let Clarko do whatever the hell he liked.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

While winning is important, peoples lives have a lot more value. Maybe he needs perspective

If winning is not the highest priority at the highest level then it may as well just close the comp down.

 

[The Lone Latic]

Better this stuff comes out now with Clarko than a year from now, or even 6 months from now. Can cut losses very early now.

You can't really "cut losses now" because there is still the whole investigation to play out which reportedly will take months. If proven innocent and we jumped the gun, good luck not paying out the 5 year contract he signed (plus soft cap implications) whereas if proven, that contract is probably null and void. There are no winners in this

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's hard to blame someone for the sins of their ancestors when they have for 200 years refused to even acknowledge the sins of their ancestors.

200 years into the future, our descendants will be utterly appalled and embarrassed by many of the actions that you and I do today in all good conscience. Even in my relatively short lifetime I can see things that were once pillars of our culture are now a total anathema.

It’s not very constructive to judge the actions of people outside of contemporary values.

 

[hirdylloydy1]

If winning is not the highest priority at the highest level then it may as well just close the comp down.

Winning a game of football more important than life.......... Got it

 

[Royce Hafey]

Obviously if allegations are true, then some of the indigenous folks at Hawthorn have been treated terribly, but how have people come to the conclusion that this treatment was exclusive to indigenous folks?



That people should be held accountable for their actions.

If any white players have had similar treatment then I'm sure they'll speak up about it. Actually I can imagine similar things happening to white players from "rough" backgrounds. It's a bit like how the apology for the Stolen Generation was followed shortly afterwards by an apology to the "orphans" who were shipped out here from the UK to be abused and exploited in horrific institutions. It's just that the scale of the mistreatment of Indigenous victims of this sort of thing is off the planet in terms of scale. There's also a sense in which things done to Indigenous people can be a template for similar injustices being inflicted on the non-Indigenous - like the way the cashless welfare card was trialled out in the NT "Intervention".

 

[SplintWhisky]

You know who seems to have gotten off Scott free in this story when I think a lot heat should be thrown at them? These player's agents. They are supposed to be representing the player and helping their clients for their 5% cut. Why didn't any of these player's or their partners feel comfortable calling on their agent?

 

[richoatthedisco]

And as us been pointed out by the Head of the AFL, those “detailed questions” weren’t aligned with what was alleged in the formal report …

… best they and their advisors read and understand what’s in the formal report so they understand what is being responding to.

Otherwise, what they’d simply be saying is “dunno what I’m being accused of, but whatever it is I didn’t do it” and they’d be rightfully pilloried if they did that.

What are you talking about? Jackson interviewed the alleged victims and put their claims (made to him) to Clarkson and Fagan and asked them to comment on them: "Here's what was said about you, what do you say about that?" He asked them to comment on the details he gave them. Get it?

or own property, get bank loans etc etc

WA has started to compensation process and perhaps other states have commenced to. Hopefully by the time I pass, every state has paid adequate compensation to both the "mob" and the individual.

Victoria started a reparations claim system for the Stolen Generations earlier this year. I'm amazed it's taken this long, or that a class action for compo wasn't launched at some point in the last 15 years.

I shouldn't be, but I'm amazed people are arguing that "the apology was 15 years ago, move on", as if it were the end of the matter rather than the mere beginning of a process that will hopefully end in some form of justice and healing.

 

[Descent]

If you read between the lines of what Hodge has been saying over recent months, North could be dodging a bullet.

I think later on at hawthorn he had too much power, especially after Kennett went the first time.

Not that I am a Kennett fan, but he was at least someone else powerful who wouldn’t let Clarko do whatever the hell he liked.

Phenomenal that Kennett holds a position of power in 2022. What a farce.