NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Rusty Brookes]

People looking for examples of non-Indigenous players being treated the same way are sort of missing the point IMHO. This appears to be a case of serious over-reach in terms of what's acceptable for coaching/football department staff. And not understanding the cultural/racial implications of what they were doing makes it worse. Again, I go back to the point that clearly the coaches didn't think they were doing anything wrong - and that's part of the big problem here. Paternalistic behaviour is unacceptable in the first instance, but clearly there are serious consideration for those from Indigenous backgrounds. Just go back and read South of the Yarra's post.

The only way I see Clarkson, Fagan and Burt getting out of this in any way, shape or form is if they have detailed notes taken from the meetings which contradict the accounts. I doubt very much they exist. And even if they do, why were they were doing going around to a player's partners house? I can't picture a scenario other than evidence that the emails were doctored that gets them exonerated and there's no evidence of that occurring at all.

As for Newbold he either gaslighted the partner or passed it to a junior or has outright lied. He is quite rightly toast.

As a long time Hawthorn member, I'm seriously angry that the governance of the place was so poor to allow such a situation to occur. I get Hawthorn supporters wanting this situation to be not as bad as it is but it appears quite simply that's not the case. I was one of the original 200 members of the Hawks for Change group. Our major focus was to put pressure on Kennett to resign but also to get some people on the board who were not part of the Old Boys network. The issue of our fraught relationship with Indigenous players was one discussion point that we were worried about, not realising how deep the problem was.

Having read the bits of the report that have been made public, I thought it was pretty fair to the club. It did note that the current players felt safe (Tyler Brockman re-signed this week) and there was a genuine attempt to improve the situation. The current administration to their credit followed the recommendation to a tee. I'm not going to do an Eddie McGuire and say it's a proud day for the club (what the hell was he thinking?) but I'm glad the report was commissioned.

Leigh Matthews noted today that any sensitive conversation between coaches and player should be recorded. Perhaps coaches shouldn't be having these type of conversations in the first place.

 

[DamoESP]

If the ABC did not decide to dig, there is a real chance the whole thing would have been swept under the rug without any of us in the public knowing. No consequences, no reviews, and no demands to do better.

Let that sink in.

This x 1000.

Certain posters want to try and attack Russell Jackson over the publishing of the article etc, but make no mistake, the only reason we're even aware of these heinous allegations is because he did some investigative journalism.

AFL and Hawthorn would have made it all disappear under the guise of "privacy for the victims" (which they are still publicly trying to do now) if the article had never been published.

 

[rado]

The AFL needs to have any inquiry completely handed off to an independent party. That means no appointments from the AFL. Andree Newbold, ex Hawthorn president, is now central to this story and he is an AFL commissioner
The AFL finds itself hopelessly conflicted here due to Newbold's position and former position.

The way it stands now, there will be a large amount of distrust from first nations people in wanting to participate in any AFL organised inquiry.

As more information comes to light and the wider the net becomes, the AFL will be coerced and/or forced to refer on to a Judicial Inquiry, potentially a Royal Commission.
Apart from the reported treatment of individuals and families, the other concern is the lack of confidence individuals had in reporting alleged abuse within AFL clubs and to the AFL.
It would appear that AFL players of all backgrounds are reluctant to speak up about anything of concern and this has contributed greatly to validating poor behaviour and treatment of players …… AFL should be in the gun as much as clubs and the staff they employ.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

You simply cannot trust the AFL to be impartial in this process.

Any inquiry moving forwards needs to be completely independent and transparent - the alleged victims deserve nothing less.

I'm of the opinion the only reason the players engaged in the review process in the first place was because it was indepedent of the club. Any club wanting to conduct a similar review should be baring this in mind. And yes, the AFL Integrity investigation should be completely indpendent for all involved. One of the reasons why the ALFCA muscling in was inappropriate IMHO.

 

[SunshineBoy]

It is horrifying stuff.

Another thing that amazes me about this. When asked about the email chain made public - with Newbold denying he wrote the emails and all - he puts together a hypothetical example of how his work email system was managed and invents a character called "the media girl".

And this occurs in the context of Hawthorn people at that time trying to claim that they had a respectful workplace. FFS "the media girl".

I no longer know why I follow this sport. This bloke is someone that a hugely powerful and successful club decided was a good fit for the president role, and since then the AFL reckons it the right person to promote to the the role of AFL Commissioner.

Never more than now have I understood that management of AFL has diddly squat to do with merit or capability - it's a massive back-patting club of connected people handing senior roles to their mates for an ongoing ego-boost all round. Three words was all it took for this guy to demonstrate that he is (a) a horrible person, and (b) a massive idiot.

The Media girl? Wtf

Regardless of what ultimately happens with Clarkson and Fagan, it is inconceivable that Newbold can remain in his position on the back of that email chain.

afl commissioner in charge of the upkeep of the game

 

[SunshineBoy]

yeah....i'd be adding Andrew Newbold to that list.

What about Gilligans mate Mark Evans , he is prominent in the report

 

[Ry009]

I hope there is a thorough review of all clubs, and well as a complete and utter review and overhaul of both indigenous/mental health/welfare support at all levels of the game.

Big chance for the AFL to do what NRL continually completely overlook when there are indiscretions.

For all we know there could be other former/current players that have had similar experiences. Shouldn't just end with the Hawthorn saga.

Unfortunate there hasn't been more general discussion about this and from the media (although they are starting from a very low bar)

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Hawks have record profits from slot machines yet they cant pay their indigenous welfare manager more than 1 day a week.

Essendon did something similar where our shit bag CEO wouldn't pay 2k to move an important statue for Nova Peris. After we turned an 8 Mil profit.

w***ers.

 

[SunshineBoy]

This x 1000.

Certain posters want to try and attack Russell Jackson over the publishing of the article etc, but make no mistake, the only reason we're even aware of these heinous allegations is because he did some investigative journalism.

AFL and Hawthorn would have made it all disappear under the guise of "privacy for the victims" (which they are still publicly trying to do now) if the article had never been published.

And that’s why AFL house should be swept to the gutter where Gilligan and his cronies belong

 

[Ry009]

More symbolic than relating to meaningful change, but how would supporters feel if football was no longer played on Queen/Kings BDay Holiday?

Big Freeze is rightly a bigger deal anyway with the good work from Neale/Melbourne/Collingwood. Perhaps that can be given the 2.10 slot permanently on Saturday.

I dunno. Just a small thing that popped in my head. The way the AFL handled the passing of the queen with AFLW sent mixed messages.

 

[faible]

Hawks have record profits from slot machines yet they cant pay their indigenous welfare manager more than 1 day a week.

Essendon did something similar where our s**t bag CEO wouldn't pay 2k to move an important statue for Nova Peris. After we turned an 8 Mil profit.

w***ers.

tbf Nova Peris isn't exactly the best human being herself, there's far better people in the First Nation's community we can showcase.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

tbf Nova Peris isn't exactly the best human being herself, there's far better people in the First Nation's community we can showcase.

i know but for 2k. jesus.

just do it.

 

[faible]

i know but for 2k. jesus.

just do it.

I'd be telling her to relocate her own statue if she wants it there and spend the $2k on the Tiwi academy or donate it to The Long Walk.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Somebody tell me Newbold is not seriously going with "I didn't read or write those emails"...

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Seems to me that Clarkson's rant of lack of due and fair process about this report is almost an admission of guilt.

 

[Satan]

Somebody tell me Newbold is not seriously going with "I didn't read or write those emails"...

Shocked I tell you

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yeah the coaches are finished. It’s just too much. I’m shocked that (on face value) that North and Brisbane haven’t seen the very obvious conclusion and acted already.

As for Hawthorn… there is a world of hurt coming down here.

Ooga booga...

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I wonder if Gil saw this coming.

He resigned in early April didn't he? Same time the Rioli stuff really came out I think?

I wonder if he knew that the Hawthorn response would lead to this all dirty laundry being aired.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Somebody tell me Newbold is not seriously going with "I didn't read or write those emails"...

I believe he said he's shocked to be sitting here

 

[nineteen eighty]

People looking for examples of non-Indigenous players being treated the same way are sort of missing the point IMHO. This appears to be a case of serious over-reach in terms of what's acceptable for coaching/football department staff. And not understanding the cultural/racial implications of what they were doing makes it worse. Again, I go back to the point that clearly the coaches didn't think they were doing anything wrong - and that's part of the big problem here. Paternalistic behaviour is unacceptable in the first instance, but clearly there are serious consideration for those from Indigenous backgrounds. Just go back and read South of the Yarra's post.

...

Leigh Matthews noted today that any sensitive conversation between coaches and player should be recorded. Perhaps coaches shouldn't be having these type of conversations in the first place.

Pretty much my thoughts. This to me seems a serious over-reach by the football department into a footballer's personal life. They may well have been asked by the player to help but it's still a serious over-reach to get involved to this level.

I said it earlier but the last thing a delicate personal situation requires is 3 alpha males rocking up to the GF's hourse.

Having said all that, they deserve due process before pitchforks are grabbed.

 

[Bjchan13]

Somebody tell me Newbold is not seriously going with "I didn't read or write those emails"...

Apparently it was 'the media girl'

 

[rado]

I hope there is a thorough review of all clubs, and well as a complete and utter review and overhaul of both indigenous/mental health/welfare support at all levels of the game.

Big chance for the AFL to do what NRL continually completely overlook when there are indiscretions.

For all we know there could be other former/current players that have had similar experiences. Shouldn't just end with the Hawthorn saga.

Unfortunate there hasn't been more general discussion about this and from the media (although they are starting from a very low bar)

Couldn’t agree more ……. it’s taken a club to undertake a review into the handling of indigenous players and families from 2010 to 2016 to establish that they weren’t treated with respect and decency.
The AFL not only didn’t want to know, they’ve actively managed ‘the firm’ to distance themselves of culpability from ANYTHING. They should be reviewing player treatment via exit interviews annually.
The time bomb is ticking and I can guarantee ‘the firm’ will be spending more time on reviewing the ‘report’ to ensure they’re not culpable, rather than assisting victims and reviewing processes to improve outcomes!!

 

[H2F]

I believe he said he's shocked to be sitting here

I just wanted to jump into this thread and say given recent developments I regret being dragged into defending the Hawks at all. This is very sad and I feel for all the people who suffered from this.

Gonna check out of this thread now, but just wanted to say that before I did.

 

[westie]

It seems apparent to me that Clarkson, Fagan, Burt, Newbold et al are all as guilty as sin here. They did it but they didn't see that it was completely f*****g wrong!

 

[Satan]

Apparently it was 'the media girl'

Any relation to the coffee boy?