News Hawthorn Racism Scandal

[Ford Fairlane]

Some terminology hints from Jack Latimore.

There’s no difference in meaning between Blackfella or Blackfulla – usage is just a matter of individual choice.

Can white people use these terms? All the mob I know have no issue with whitefullas using Blackfulla/Blackfella, but I have heard strange tales of people employed in “human resources” taking issue with white staff using it. So, probably best to just try to avoid that HR mob altogether. No problem with white people using Blak in writing, but like Black it is more fraught in speech. Avoid swanning around liberally calling Aboriginal people Blacks. That won’t end well.

Blak, Black, Blackfulla: Language is important, but it can be tricky

Worried about causing offence? Just don’t understand? Bewildered at the pace of change? Here’s a handy usage guide for talking to and writing about mob.

www.smh.com.au

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

OH * OFF

The deaths in custody thing again, how to undercut an argument with a bullshit dog whistle. Aboriginal deaths in custody are not, or barely, within standard deviation, more common than non aboriginal in custody. The statistics do not backup that aboriginal people are disproportionately murdered in custody at all when you bother to look in to it and do comparisons. They are more likely to die of natural causes than non aboriginal, in custody.

If you are gonna reference the royal commission, do it properly.



Tony, you are better than this.

So where are you getting your data set from? The royal commission was in 1991. Has things stayed the same?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[edgie]

So where are you getting your data set from? The royal commission was in 1991. Has things stayed the same?

Around the same last I looked

(dangerous thing to say dealing REH, he'll find a .2 difference and die on the hill that it's quite a significant number and not within any sort of standard distribution)

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Around the same last I looked

(dangerous thing to say dealing REH, he'll find a .2 difference and die on the hill that it's quite a significant number and not within any sort of standard distribution)

Where are the links? what is the data set?

Post #442 by EskimoPAFC shows the ABS stats say otherwise

 

[edgie]

Where are the links? what is the data set?

Post #442 by EskimoPAFC shows the ABS stats say otherwise

What? No it didn't. It was a picture that showed the numbers with no context to actual numbers of those in custody and likelihood of dying in custody.

 

[edgie]

RussellEbertHandball



Literally the ABS, I know it's only prison custody and not other forms I'm still sourcing that again, but there's a start for ya.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What? No it didn't. It was a picture that showed the stats compared to the general population, not narrowed down to those in custody.

No, it was a % of deaths in custody separated by indigenous vs non indigenous.

My bad the graph came from the Australian Institute of Criminology was about % deaths in custody, but the per 100,000 figure is from the ABS ie the general population.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

RussellEbertHandball

View attachment 1515079

Literally the ABS

Ok that's sort of data set I'm after.

The next question is how and why did the deaths occurs?

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

Some terminology hints from Jack Latimore.

There’s no difference in meaning between Blackfella or Blackfulla – usage is just a matter of individual choice.

Can white people use these terms? All the mob I know have no issue with whitefullas using Blackfulla/Blackfella, but I have heard strange tales of people employed in “human resources” taking issue with white staff using it. So, probably best to just try to avoid that HR mob altogether. No problem with white people using Blak in writing, but like Black it is more fraught in speech. Avoid swanning around liberally calling Aboriginal people Blacks. That won’t end well.

Blak, Black, Blackfulla: Language is important, but it can be tricky

Worried about causing offence? Just don’t understand? Bewildered at the pace of change? Here’s a handy usage guide for talking to and writing about mob.

www.smh.com.au

with the exception of the obvious rasict words most blackfellas are very tolerant, you will find its mainly the inner-city whites that are offended, for some reason they find it their mission in life to take exception to everything, but i suspect its just pretense to project a caring image because they know they are really souless entities.

 

[StrappingTape]

No, he didn't. His star rose because he is good at what he does, being entertaining and generally likable. It's low standards but that's media.

The reason he's not going to let something like this go through, I presume, is because he feels that, having built his platform, he feels a responsibility to use it to inform his audience of perspectives like his.

You realise that this is part of the problem, right? Not recognising that Indigenous people can have success without becoming an 'activist', whatever the * that means.

Yeah of course they can but his angle has always been the same and it's what got him to where he is just my imo.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Its a legacy thing - black magic. When the Krakouer brothers arrived at North in 1982 from Claremont, they had this 6th sense knowing where each other was on the field and found each other in tight and strange situations. Their flashy, highly skilled play and trickery, became known as black magic

Then when more indigenous players from WA, SA and NT came into the VFL and expanded VFL/AFL, the highly skilled ones who did the amazing stuff, were also referred to as having black magic, suggesting they got away with having an X-factor rather than doing the hard tough grinding stuff when footy at the top level was more one on one, more physical and more dirty.

I have used the phrase - vision of a black fella - on here maybe 20 times. A couple of times I have been called out for it being a racist comment.

Then I tell them where it came from. 15 years ago I read the great John Harms biography - The Pearl - about ex Brisbane Broncos, Queensland state of origin and Kangaroos Test rugby league player Steve Renouf. He was a winger and scored many great tries, many flashy tries in some unbelievable situations in his career. I lived in Sydney and SE Qld for nearly all of Renouf's career, and the Broncos being a dominate team, I saw a lot of his games on TV.

I have met John a few times, but a couple of mates are good friends of him and he is a great writer/story teller of sports and sports men and women. He's country Qld born, Geelong supporter, Qld mother, his fathers side of the family came from Geelong and John moved between Qld and Victoria in his youth a few time, so is an equal footy and rugby league fan and why he started up the The Footy Almanac — Write. From the Heart. which covers both codes.

Harms' book details the hard slog Steve Renouf had to do to make it from country Queensland town of Murgon where he had to overcome the usual prejudices and racial stereotyping of Australian country towns. Then when he's made it, he is diagnosed with type I diabetes when he's about 22.

In the book Harms asks Renouf why he thinks indigenous players (a lot of Torres Strait Islanders play rugby league in Qld, not just Aboriginals) are able to do the difficult things, across all sports, that get labelled as magic?

Renouf says he thinks its go to do with indigenous players still being close (in years/generations) to their hunter gather roots and that to hunt and survive you have to have great peripheral vision to see your pray, and he thinks that's why indigenous players can see openings and other little things in play, better than players of European descent.

So if you ever read a comment from me, that he has the vision of a black fella, it means a white fella has done a great bit of play using his peripheral vision and its a nod to Steve Renouf for explaining to me where indigenous players "magic" comes from.

It's probably just be better and safer to say the vision of a hunter then.

or perhaps the vision of a hunting animal that still use their peripheral vision in this way in the wild like a cat.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

It's probably just be better and safer to say the vision of a hunter then.

Nope, white guys are hunters.

 

[StrappingTape]

Yeah that's fair. I'm sure everyone here including Francis would be more than comfortable in the same position as the people accused.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Nope, white guys are hunters.

That's kind of the point. If it is an attribute derived from a hunting lifestyle why not just reference that rather than skin colour?

 

[Jason K]

Do we know who did the actual review/investigation thing? Why would Hawthorn get an independent investigator in but then they don't actually get both sides?

A lot of this is Gil's own pushing of politics eating their own so it's enjoyable that way, what's not is the absolute mob mentality of those who for some reason hate Clarkson or through alignment with their personal views that Australia is racist or something want to nuke these guys to Saturn without seeing the report themselves nor waiting to see what the response is before firing the rocket. Apparently, that makes a whole lot of racists or defenders of racists.. that's the actual low IQ take away.

People defending the ABC journo's, the ABC types * up all the time but personally he won't have to worry if something comes of it because the government will cover his costs. North's in the trickiest spot here, if they feel like they can't move forward with him but there's no provable allegation etc and they have that 5mil contract to get around, nightmare. We dodged a bullet here by being absolutely useless and mediocre at an admin level, this s**t show would have written off next year already plus sponsorship issues.

I'm not sure if I am one of the "mob" but I did like Clarkson and desperately wanted him to replace Ken. I read the ABC article and was disgusted that these young men and women had to go through what they did. I find it hard that anyone that has read the accounts published in that piece would not believe it? It's just too horrible to make up. No-one should ever have to go through that and no-one should ever feel like they are so shit hot that they can put people through this without retribution.

 

[Cam1870]

Do we know who did the actual review/investigation thing? Why would Hawthorn get an independent investigator in but then they don't actually get both sides?

A lot of this is Gil's own pushing of politics eating their own so it's enjoyable that way, what's not is the absolute mob mentality of those who for some reason hate Clarkson or through alignment with their personal views that Australia is racist or something want to nuke these guys to Saturn without seeing the report themselves nor waiting to see what the response is before firing the rocket. Apparently, that makes a whole lot of racists or defenders of racists.. that's the actual low IQ take away.

People defending the ABC journo's, the ABC types * up all the time but personally he won't have to worry if something comes of it because the government will cover his costs. North's in the trickiest spot here, if they feel like they can't move forward with him but there's no provable allegation etc and they have that 5mil contract to get around, nightmare. We dodged a bullet here by being absolutely useless and mediocre at an admin level, this s**t show would have written off next year already plus sponsorship issues.

I think our politics are pretty different, which is fine. I'm also curious about why you'd commission a report, catalog some truly awful accusations then not get a response from the accused. I believe the ABC journo gave Clarko and Fagan the right of reply but Fagan at least says he was never asked for the original report. Smacks of a club pushed into commissioning a report but not wanting to actually find anything, then the AFL equally not wanting to do anything until their hand is forced by a journalist.

Either way, I hope we can all agree a transparent, all access and comprehensive review of Hawthorn and the entire AFL system is badly needed. If half the accusations hold up, I can't see how anyone connected participates in professional sport again.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

That's kind of the point. If it is an attribute derived from a hunting lifestyle why not just reference that rather than skin colour?

White hunters have lost their peripheral vision advantage that's the point of what Steve Renouf was talking about. White fellas stopped being hunter gathers generations ago.

 

[StrappingTape]

I think our politics are pretty different, which is fine. I'm also curious about why you'd commission a report, catalog some truly awful accusations then not get a response from the accused. I believe the ABC journo gave Clarko and Fagan the right of reply but Fagan at least says he was never asked for the original report. Smacks of a club pushed into commissioning a report but not wanting to actually find anything, then the AFL equally not wanting to do anything until their hand is forced by a journalist.

Either way, I hope we can all agree a transparent, all access and comprehensive review of Hawthorn and the entire AFL system is badly needed. If half the accusations hold up, I can't see how anyone connected participates in professional sport again.

Well yeah, I'm amazed so many people are so happy to sink the knives into these people without all the facts, sure if it comes out that even some of it is true they are done and good right but we are so far away from an actual process right now. I read today that the worst stuff in the article wasn't in the actual report so it's already starting to get murkier and lengthier, they'll have to get the past players back in to update, more back and forth etc.

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

White hunters have lost their peripheral vision advantage that's the point of what Steve Renouf was talking about. White fellas stopped being hunter gathers generations ago.

i go fishing all the time and i would shoot any animals that moves and eat it if i was allowed, Man talk about stereotypes

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

Well yeah, I'm amazed so many people are so happy to sink the knives into these people without all the facts, sure if it comes out that even some of it is true they are done and good right but we are so far away from an actual process right now. I read today that the worst stuff in the article wasn't in the actual report so it's already starting to get murkier and lengthier, they'll have to get the past players back in to update, more back and forth etc.

if at the end of the trail wasnt money then i might listen, but as sure as night follows day there will be some money trail at the end of it. Yeh nah

 

[Papa G]

i go fishing all the time and i would shoot any animals that moves and eat it if i was allowed, Man talk about stereotypes

Lol. You do this for fun, from the comfort of your 4 wheel drive or tinnie with modern equipment that you bought at the shops. I think that is about a bazillion times removed thunting and gathering for you very own survival.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

White hunters have lost their peripheral vision advantage that's the point of what Steve Renouf was talking about. White fellas stopped being hunter gathers generations ago.

That's not exclusively true and regardless that's due to time, not the colour of their skin.

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

Lol. You do this for fun, from the comfort of your 4 wheel drive or tinnie with modern equipment that you bought at the shops. I think that is about a bazillion times removed thunting and gathering for you very own survival.

you need to come fishing with me, let me tell you it usually includes going down cliff faces and a 10km walk. The more primitive the better, anyone can point a gun and shoot a roo.

 

[AFC AFeederClub]

White hunters have lost their peripheral vision advantage that's the point of what Steve Renouf was talking about. White fellas stopped being hunter gathers generations ago.

peripheral vision is a funny one, i had the greatest PV when i was young and it allows you to run rings around people because its like your one step ahead of everyone else. It what you see when people say 'that player always has time' He know's exactly where he is and where others are and is confident in what can be done. Now that im older my PV is shot, im guessing its because i didnt keep constantly training that part of me.