Preview Hawthorn v Bulldogs, 3 August 2014, 3.20pm @ York Park

[Turly]

Ah, had a shocker did he? I don't really keep an eye on Box Hill so cheers for the info.

I guess we will find out soon enough.

Yeah he wasn't great mate.

He's one of those players that performs better at the higher level in my opinion.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Let me just say once again, f*** I hate the sub rule. It's a ridiculous situation that Woodward finds himself playing just a QTR of football gathering 3 touches and now faces the prospect of going back to Box Hill. I want to see what he can bring FFS!

Rant over.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the sub rule, do you reckon we would have pulled the trigger on Woody if he had to play the whole game out? Not aying he didn't earn his call up but I suspect the selectors would have been a little more cautious.

 

[LindaCresLove]

Many fans going down to tassie to watch the game? I got free tickets from a FB comp earlier this year (got to go on the MCG ground, met Whitey)... so Ill be going to this game in tassie. Saw the same game last year at York Park too - had an amazing steak afterwards

Yes Wife and I are going.
It's become an annual thing.
The Launceston atmosphere is sensational drowning in Brown & Gold love.
Both really looking forward to the whole W/E.
Other Hawk fans we sit near at the G also going.

 

[IdiotBox]

Will the ground be a quagmire? I understand the weather has been pretty fierce this week.

 

[rdhopkins2]

The drainage at Aurora and surface quality is excellent overall. I'd be highly surprised if it was in poor condition. Ground is the best in the AFL in my humble opinion.

 

[deanc]

The drainage at Aurora and surface quality is excellent overall. I'd be highly surprised if it was in poor condition. Ground is the best in the AFL in my humble opinion.

Somewhat biased being from Tassie but York Park is the biggest and best AFL surface in the country. I played on it as a 16yo (many moons ago) and recall I was overawed by it's size. Playing on the wing it was good to catch up with the full back and full forward at quarter and half time breaks as ground was so big I hardly saw them during the game.

 

[purringgirl]

Yes Wife and I are going.
It's become an annual thing.
The Launceston atmosphere is sensational drowning in Brown & Gold love.
Both really looking forward to the whole W/E.
Other Hawk fans we sit near at the G also going.

Yeah it should be a good crowd especially since its the last Hawks game of the year.

 

[TeamPlayer23]

This is hilarious. Truly, it is. I can't even remember our last defender to receive this much praise after gifting a forward a 5 goal game.

Really...
First of all don't forget that in that particular game that your referring to Spanngher was filling a key defensive position in the absence of both Brian Lake and Josh Gibson!!

Second I remember Schoey having bags of goals week after week getting kicked on him on many occasions, and to be honest I was getting seek and tyred of it happening but at the same time i was always giving Schoey the benefit of doubt as he was still young, and we were lacking a tall key defender but things are deferent now as we've got a couple key defenders in Spangh and Lake..

So lets be realistic here, not that im putting Schoey down in any way, but he will never make it as Key defender, you my ask why?..Some things you can never teach and it doesn't matter how long you try. (Natural Instinct to Defend), that's why some players are natural forwards or defenders and Shoey is a forward and that will not change, he panics under pressure as a defender and makes crucial mistakes, and that's dangerous because key forwards sense that as a weakness and gives them confidence, and that can cost us a final or even a GF...

Despite the fact that he's still young, he's had plenty of experience playing as a key defender and what happens he keeps making the some mistakes, so we've all seen enough by know, and so has the club, and that's way they recruited Spangher hoping that he can get the job done in defence which he has, and were grooming Shoey to play up forward but he hasn't had the opportunity to do so this year through our injuries in defence...

Spangher has been a valuable inclusion for the Hawks, filling a key defensive post in the absence of both Brian Lake and Josh Gibson. His more athletic then Shoey for his size, and has impressed not only in his one-on-one defensive ability but also with his offensive capability.
When any of the two of Spangher or Lake come back in, if there's no position for Schoey up forward he will be dropped to BHH to help them win their second flag, back to back playing up forward.

 

[Cynic]

Yeah it should be a good crowd especially since its the last Hawks game of the year.

Not sure, it's been a horrendous week weather wise and supposed to be freezing and wet on Sunday. Wouldn't expect a large crowd to be honest.

 

[seysearles]

I wouldn't be surprised if players were to be rested in the coming two games. Hodge, Burgoyne and Lewis are the 3 that come to mind (not all 3 in the same game obviously). Perhaps even Birchall could do with a fresher.

 

[Taskmaster]

Really...
First of all don't forget that in that particular game that your referring to Spanngher was filling a key defensive position in the absence of both Brian Lake and Josh Gibson!!

Second I remember Schoey having bags of goals week after week getting kicked on him on many occasions, and to be honest I was getting seek and tyred of it happening but at the same time i was always giving Schoey the benefit of doubt as he was still young, and we were lacking a tall key defender but things are deferent now as we've got a couple key defenders in Spangh and Lake..

So lets be realistic here, not that im putting Schoey down in any way, but he will never make it as Key defender, you my ask why?..Some things you can never teach and it doesn't matter how long you try. (Natural Instinct to Defend), that's why some players are natural forwards or defenders and Shoey is a forward and that will not change, he panics under pressure as a defender and makes crucial mistakes, and that's dangerous because key forwards sense that as a weakness and gives them confidence, and that can cost us a final or even a GF...

Despite the fact that he's still young, he's had plenty of experience playing as a key defender and what happens he keeps making the some mistakes, so we've all seen enough by know, and so has the club, and that's way they recruited Spangher hoping that he can get the job done in defence which he has, and were grooming Shoey to play up forward but he hasn't had the opportunity to do so this year through our injuries in defence...

Spangher has been a valuable inclusion for the Hawks, filling a key defensive post in the absence of both Brian Lake and Josh Gibson. His more athletic then Shoey for his size, and has impressed not only in his one-on-one defensive ability but also with his offensive capability.
When any of the two of Spangher or Lake come back in, if there's no position for Schoey up forward he will be dropped to BHH to help them win their second flag, back to back playing up forward.

Shoey's biggest downfall as a defender, is that he is too worried where his man is when the ball is coming in, rather than reading the fall of the ball and putting himself in the way of the ball and his opponent. Thats the most frustrating thing.

And cant agree more with the above. Spang has had to do it without the help of Lake and Gib. Whereas Shoey still leaks too many goals with those 2 boys in the side. Teams play through him ie Geelong!

And for all the air fairy supporters, this is not a Shoey bashing, just stating some things that he can improve on, IF, he is going to become a good defender.

I still think he is better suited up forward.

 

[Brishawk]

Really...
First of all don't forget that in that particular game that your referring to Spanngher was filling a key defensive position in the absence of both Brian Lake and Josh Gibson!!

Second I remember Schoey having bags of goals week after week getting kicked on him on many occasions, and to be honest I was getting seek and tyred of it happening but at the same time i was always giving Schoey the benefit of doubt as he was still young, and we were lacking a tall key defender but things are deferent now as we've got a couple key defenders in Spangh and Lake..

So lets be realistic here, not that im putting Schoey down in any way, but he will never make it as Key defender, you my ask why?..Some things you can never teach and it doesn't matter how long you try. (Natural Instinct to Defend), that's why some players are natural forwards or defenders and Shoey is a forward and that will not change, he panics under pressure as a defender and makes crucial mistakes, and that's dangerous because key forwards sense that as a weakness and gives them confidence, and that can cost us a final or even a GF...

Despite the fact that he's still young, he's had plenty of experience playing as a key defender and what happens he keeps making the some mistakes, so we've all seen enough by know, and so has the club, and that's way they recruited Spangher hoping that he can get the job done in defence which he has, and were grooming Shoey to play up forward but he hasn't had the opportunity to do so this year through our injuries in defence...

Spangher has been a valuable inclusion for the Hawks, filling a key defensive post in the absence of both Brian Lake and Josh Gibson. His more athletic then Shoey for his size, and has impressed not only in his one-on-one defensive ability but also with his offensive capability.
When any of the two of Spangher or Lake come back in, if there's no position for Schoey up forward he will be dropped to BHH to help them win their second flag, back to back playing up forward.

The last time anyone kicked 3+ goals on Shoey was round 3 2013. Before that you have to go back to 2012 finals series in which Cloke (6) and Tippet (4) kicked goals on him. I went through most of 2012 and couldn't see anyone back to back big bags. When is this mythical time you speak of when Shoey was getting bags of goals kicked on him 'week after week'? For the record, Hawkins has kicked 3+ goals on him twice (both in 2012). Cloke has done it a few times but Shoey has also beaten him too (e.g. rd 17 2012 where Cloke kicked 1 goal and round 1 2012 he kept Cloke to 2 goals). And considering Collingwood kick to Cloke about 35 times a game its no great shame to have goals kicked against you (see Lake in 2014). Tippett was held to 2 goals in round 3 2012 and Shoey had 22 disposals so its no like he never beat him either. In fact against Shoey, Tippett has kicked 1, 2, 4, 2. In their past 4 meetings. So we can say it is likely the 4 goals was the anomaly given it is nearly double the average. To put this in perspective Shoey was 21 in 2012. Michael Talia (who everyone thinks we should have drafted) is 21 and can't get a game for the bulldogs even though every B-grade or better full forward kicks a bag against them. Expectations have been way ahead of reality for Shoey even though by league standards he was performing very well at a young age for a KPD.

 

[seysearles]

A win to the Blues tonight and victory over the Bulldogs will put Fremantle 2 wins and % behinds us with 4 games to go. Will be very tough to finish above us in that scenario even if they beat us in Perth.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Shoey's biggest downfall as a defender, is that he is too worried where his man is when the ball is coming in, rather than reading the fall of the ball and putting himself in the way of the ball and his opponent. Thats the most frustrating thing.

And cant agree more with the above. Spang has had to do it without the help of Lake and Gib. Whereas Shoey still leaks too many goals with those 2 boys in the side. Teams play through him ie Geelong!

And for all the air fairy supporters, this is not a Shoey bashing, just stating some things that he can improve on, IF, he is going to become a good defender.

I still think he is better suited up forward.

Schoey has hardly played with Lake and Gibbo either this year!

Just because some of us prefer to take a realistic looks at Schoey's performances doesn't make us airy fairy supporters either. I like both Schoey and Spangher for different reasons but both have their faults as do Lake and Gibbo. We would have been up the creek without a paddle without Schoey this year with all the problems we have had with losing defenders for one reason or another and I am very grateful for what he has done down back, especially coming back form a serious injury.

 

[bris tarangau]

The last time anyone kicked 3+ goals on Shoey was round 3 2013. Before that you have to go back to 2012 finals series in which Cloke (6) and Tippet (4) kicked goals on him. I went through most of 2012 and couldn't see anyone back to back big bags. When is this mythical time you speak of when Shoey was getting bags of goals kicked on him 'week after week'? For the record, Hawkins has kicked 3+ goals on him twice (both in 2012). Cloke has done it a few times but Shoey has also beaten him too (e.g. rd 17 2012 where Cloke kicked 1 goal and round 1 2012 he kept Cloke to 2 goals). And considering Collingwood kick to Cloke about 35 times a game its no great shame to have goals kicked against you (see Lake in 2014). Tippett was held to 2 goals in round 3 2012 and Shoey had 22 disposals so its no like he never beat him either. In fact against Shoey, Tippett has kicked 1, 2, 4, 2. In their past 4 meetings. So we can say it is likely the 4 goals was the anomaly given it is nearly double the average. To put this in perspective Shoey was 21 in 2012. Michael Talia (who everyone thinks we should have drafted) is 21 and can't get a game for the bulldogs even though every B-grade or better full forward kicks a bag against them. Expectations have been way ahead of reality for Shoey even though by league standards he was performing very well at a young age for a KPD.

Shoey is the only defender now that has me (and all those around me watching the games) thinking (and saying it aloud!) the following:-

1) When the ball is kicked to Shoey one on one with any forward, "oh no, a mark and goal coming up",
2) When Shoey has the ball in his hands in the D50, "oh no, don't get caught with HTB".

I don't spend a lot of time in looking for stats but when you see and say these things then just goes to show how he is performing, in our opinion.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

The last time anyone kicked 3+ goals on Shoey was round 3 2013. Before that you have to go back to 2012 finals series in which Cloke (6) and Tippet (4) kicked goals on him. I went through most of 2012 and couldn't see anyone back to back big bags. When is this mythical time you speak of when Shoey was getting bags of goals kicked on him 'week after week'? For the record, Hawkins has kicked 3+ goals on him twice (both in 2012). Cloke has done it a few times but Shoey has also beaten him too (e.g. rd 17 2012 where Cloke kicked 1 goal and round 1 2012 he kept Cloke to 2 goals). And considering Collingwood kick to Cloke about 35 times a game its no great shame to have goals kicked against you (see Lake in 2014). Tippett was held to 2 goals in round 3 2012 and Shoey had 22 disposals so its no like he never beat him either. In fact against Shoey, Tippett has kicked 1, 2, 4, 2. In their past 4 meetings. So we can say it is likely the 4 goals was the anomaly given it is nearly double the average. To put this in perspective Shoey was 21 in 2012. Michael Talia (who everyone thinks we should have drafted) is 21 and can't get a game for the bulldogs even though every B-grade or better full forward kicks a bag against them. Expectations have been way ahead of reality for Shoey even though by league standards he was performing very well at a young age for a KPD.

Amen. I gave up reading that dude's post as the grammar and spelling was just too much for me, but I thank you for providing a factual rebuttal.

 

[Brishawk]

Shoey's biggest downfall as a defender, is that he is too worried where his man is when the ball is coming in, rather than reading the fall of the ball and putting himself in the way of the ball and his opponent. Thats the most frustrating thing.

And cant agree more with the above. Spang has had to do it without the help of Lake and Gib. Whereas Shoey still leaks too many goals with those 2 boys in the side. Teams play through him ie Geelong!

And for all the air fairy supporters, this is not a Shoey bashing, just stating some things that he can improve on, IF, he is going to become a good defender.

I still think he is better suited up forward.

That is just making stuff up. Shoey, Lake and Gibbo have played one game together against St Kilda where Shoey played forward before Lake got injured. Shoey had no goals kicked on him in that match. Lake then came back and Shoey went forward again and in the three matches Lake played before being suspended Lake conceded 5, 1-2, 5. In that time Shoey conceded 0 goals.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

It's probably Schoenmakers' fault that Lake had 5 kicked on him against Petrie and lost his cool. I'm sure he's to blame for the trouble in Palestine too.

 

[TyHawk]

The last time anyone kicked 3+ goals on Shoey was round 3 2013. Before that you have to go back to 2012 finals series in which Cloke (6) and Tippet (4) kicked goals on him. I went through most of 2012 and couldn't see anyone back to back big bags. When is this mythical time you speak of when Shoey was getting bags of goals kicked on him 'week after week'? For the record, Hawkins has kicked 3+ goals on him twice (both in 2012). Cloke has done it a few times but Shoey has also beaten him too (e.g. rd 17 2012 where Cloke kicked 1 goal and round 1 2012 he kept Cloke to 2 goals). And considering Collingwood kick to Cloke about 35 times a game its no great shame to have goals kicked against you (see Lake in 2014). Tippett was held to 2 goals in round 3 2012 and Shoey had 22 disposals so its no like he never beat him either. In fact against Shoey, Tippett has kicked 1, 2, 4, 2. In their past 4 meetings. So we can say it is likely the 4 goals was the anomaly given it is nearly double the average. To put this in perspective Shoey was 21 in 2012. Michael Talia (who everyone thinks we should have drafted) is 21 and can't get a game for the bulldogs even though every B-grade or better full forward kicks a bag against them. Expectations have been way ahead of reality for Shoey even though by league standards he was performing very well at a young age for a KPD.

That's way too much explaining which proves the point Schoenmakers ain't a very good defender! It's pretty simple really, he continually needs the third man up or he's cooked ( we are talking about high balls against monsters)! Tippett carves him up more often than not, don't just give Goals as evidence, when observing Forwards versus Defenders, the scoring shots should be counted and not just the goals FfS!
Anyway spoke to Brian Lake just yesterday at Broady Shopping Centre and he reckons he is ready to go and that he is counting days till he's back! I told him the 4 week suspension was a tad harsh, he kinda agreed but also said " that's what you get for choking someone lololo". Yep, can't wait for Lake to be back and I couldn't give a stuff whether Spangher or Schoenmakers are the ones sacrificed.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

Shoey's biggest downfall as a defender, is that he is too worried where his man is when the ball is coming in, rather than reading the fall of the ball and putting himself in the way of the ball and his opponent. Thats the most frustrating thing.

And cant agree more with the above. Spang has had to do it without the help of Lake and Gib. Whereas Shoey still leaks too many goals with those 2 boys in the side. Teams play through him ie Geelong!

And for all the air fairy supporters, this is not a Shoey bashing, just stating some things that he can improve on, IF, he is going to become a good defender.

I still think he is better suited up forward.

Again, this is incorrect. Cheney had the unfortunate match-up of playing on Hawkins. But nope, it's all Schoenmakers' fault yet again. Keep trying, kid. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

That's way too much explaining which proves the point Schoenmakers ain't a very good defender! It's pretty simple really, he continually needs the third man up or he's cooked ( we are talking about high balls against monsters)! Tippett carves him up more often than not, don't just give Goals as evidence, when observing Forwards versus Defenders, the scoring shots should be counted and not just the goals FfS!
Anyway spoke to Brian Lake just yesterday at Broady Shopping Centre and he reckons he is ready to go and that he is counting days till he's back! I told him the 4 week suspension was a tad harsh, he kinda agreed but also said " that's what you get for choking someone lololo". Yep, can't wait for Lake to be back and I couldn't give a stuff whether Spangher or Schoenmakers are the ones sacrificed.

Okay. Tippett had four shots. Franklin had what, 7 on Gibson (aware the first couple weren't a direct match-up) so I guess Gibbo is just awful.

EDIT - 8 shots. Franklin had eight.

 

[Davo-27]

Shoey is the only defender now that has me (and all those around me watching the games) thinking (and saying it aloud!) the following:-

1) When the ball is kicked to Shoey one on one with any forward, "oh no, a mark and goal coming up",
2) When Shoey has the ball in his hands in the D50, "oh no, don't get caught with HTB".

I don't spend a lot of time in looking for stats but when you see and say these things then just goes to show how he is performing, in our opinion.

this is pretty much 80% of supporters reactions, thank god we have a hard working midfield.....

as for Schoey his last month has been solid, very few mistakes or brain-farts so i'm starting to support him and not bag him out, i feel as though he is a good 22-25 player on our list, i still have Lake and Gibson ahead of him.........and i also believe that Heatherley and Brand have some talent and could surpass him in future

i think if he plays finals we should all back him in, as he has stepped up his game recently and we should encourage better performances and not dwell on the past too much.......

 

[Thaihawk]

After Simpkin's good job on Malceski last week, i can't see him getting dropped

Just another of our players doing his role for the team. Lewis has been sacrificing his own game for a few years doing exactly this, but only getting his work wnen his opponent is Judd, is someone similar. I have read many criticize Lewy in the past when in fact he has just been doing his job. Now the club has others to do that work, we are all appreciating the ability Jordan has as an attacking first grade footballer.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

The drainage at Aurora and surface quality is excellent overall. I'd be highly surprised if it was in poor condition. Ground is the best in the AFL in my humble opinion.

The players think so too.

From what I've been told, the recovery on legs in particular is about a day less than playing on the car park that is Etihad.

 

[Davo-27]

Just another of our players doing his role for the team. Lewis has been sacrificing his own game for a few years doing exactly this, but only getting his work wnen his opponent is Judd, is someone similar. I have read many criticize Lewy in the past when in fact he has just been doing his job. Now the club has others to do that work, we are all appreciating the ability Jordan has as an attacking first grade footballer.

only time i was a bit worried about Lewis' form was after he coped that wack against the Bulldogs i think, that knocked him out, he went into his shell a bit for a season or 2, but has been an amazing player for us as more a link player and an enforcer of sorts in the midfield, i will always respect and admire him for his courageous and hard hitting work for the team......

Simpkin has been surprisingly really good recently, provides a link in our push forward and also can chip in with a few running goals, i believe he got 2 against adelaide?.......anyways he has been decent and will only go out if the coaches believe Sewell holds more importance in a game....