Here's a question for you Hawthorn greatest team of all backers.

[Woodie99]

My bad... But I think the OP is referring to modern history.. I am assuming these 9 Grand Finals were in the early 1900's?

All good Yes the first 4 & 4 during WW2 were the others to be played elsewhere.

 

[And_ROOS]

To all the Geelong supporters in this thread attempting to re-write history.

I promise you that you're the only ones who think your 3 flags over 5 years (one of which was against an extremely poor interstate team) come close to Hawthorn's three-in-a-row. If you reckon Hawthorn have benefited from the era of expansion, just remember the advantages you guys picked up from father-son. Also, your win over the Saints in 2009 was by the skin of your teeth (and if we had goal-line technology that day it may have been a very different story). Collingwood were cooked in 2011.

Compare that to the clinical way in which Hawthorn dispatched Sydney, Freo and West Coast (and your mob in 2008). And the scary thing is that Hawthorn aren't finished.

At what point do you consider them superior? One more? Two more?

Hawthorn of 2013-15 beats Geelong of 2008 by 5 goals.

And Geelong of 07 touches up Hawthorn by at least 9 goals.

 

[SeaEagle]

In 2013 apparently the purple haze would overawe us.
In 2014 Sydney were $1.50 favourites and not many gave us a chance.
In 2015 the WC web and two trips to the animal farm at Subiaco to get the win in 32 degree heat which gave WC a significant advantage.

Maybe you should be looking at chokers like Darling Yeo Kennedy and Priddis who all wilted at the MCG![/QUOTE]
Or most of your side that wilted three weeks ago at Domain

 

[dipper86]

And Geelong of 07 touches up Hawthorn by at least 9 goals.

Geelong of 07 lost to Hawthorn by 4 points.
So on that note the Hawthorn side of 2013-14 and 15 would have beaten Geelong's 07 team by 16 goals....that was easy.

 

[Severe]

No home ground advantage, yet one team has played there once this season & the other a dozen times...

You knew what meant.

 

[Ugottabjokin]

If you had finished above us this thread wouldnt exist.

If you hadn't had such a piss easy fixture because you finished so low the previous year you wouldn't have been handed so many easy 4 point games and thus finished so high on the ladder,

Jeez Wet Toast Eagles or what.

 

[Ugottabjokin]

Its a shame that Geelong had to actually play good teams during our successful years. We could win 8 straight if we had opponents the quality of the Hawks had.

You mean good teams like the Hawks in 2008?

 

[beta_condition]

As a matter of fact ask yourself how you would have gone in that first final against us if it were at the g - instead of subi.

The Crowd has a bigger influence on the contest than the ground it self, how would you like every subi game having a 50/50 split?

 

[Ugottabjokin]

Here are the facts:

1. West coast finished higher on the ladder
2. West coast earnt a home final against hawthorn and won.
3. Coming into the grand final the Eagles were the higher ranked team
4. The Eagles are then forced to play on a ground in which they have played once that year.

On those facts you work out how fair it is. Either interstate teams must play more games at the mcg or the final must be played at a neutral ground.

Here are some more facts:

1. WCE had a much easier draw due to finishing so low on the ladder the previous year.
2. Playing so many lower ranker teams from the year before enabled them to win more games.
3. Not having as many higher ranked (harder) games meant they were fresher to play the harder teams.
4. You're obvious envy makes all us Hawks supporters smile.

 

[eldorado]

Geez if you ever want to explain to someone what cognitive dissonance is - show them this thread.

The same posters who will assert that west coast has a decided home ground advantage compared to vic clubs - will then go on and say they are at no disadvantage playing a granny at the g.

Talk about having your cake and eating it.

Either theres an advantage from playing at subi or there isnt. If there is an advantage to playing at subi - then not playing there negates that advantage - rendering it a disadvantage.

There really is no way out of that.

So...assuming we both know the grand final will always be at the g, and all interstate teams know this fact when they come into the league...with respect, what is the point of this apart from being a massive cop-out every time an interstate team loses to a Melbourne team?

It's just a perennial free hit... which will last forever. It will come out every time a Victorian team beats an interstate team in the GF (which has happened 5 times) but it will oddly forgotten when an interstate team beats a Victorian team (4 times)

 

[kranky al]

Uu

So...assuming we both know the grand final will always be at the g, and all interstate teams know this fact when they come into the league...with respect, what is the point of this apart from being a massive cop-out every time an interstate team loses to a Melbourne team?

It's just a perennial free hit... which will last forever. It will come out every time a Victorian team beats an interstate team in the GF (which has happened 5 times) but it will oddly forgotten when an interstate team beats a Victorian team (4 times)

I marvel at peoples ability to miss the point - over and over and over.

Firstly. Victorian teams will also beat interstate teams at their homes. This does not mean that interstate teams dont hold a home advantage.

Noone sits there every time a vic team beats an interstate team at their home and says - well thats it - theres no more advantage anymore in being the home team.

They dont say that because they would look like morons. You would be basing a premise on a very small statistical set that doesnt bear comparison with the larger statistical set- which clearly shows that home grounds have a huge advantage for interstate clubs.

Now extrapolate that back to your argument and see how silly it looks.

For another twenty points try and imagine how happy you would be if during the next iron ore boom wa build a 200000 seat stadium and with our cash we bribed our way into a 50 year deal where every gf was played here. How would you like to face us here every time we made the dance? Do you not feel we would gain an advantage?

How do you feel about paying a $3000 dollar air fare to watch your team play?

What if your team lost by a point - after your team finished top of the ladder and the dockers finished 6th but beat you?

 

[beta_condition]

What if your team lost by a point - after your team finished top of the ladder and the dockers finished 6th but beat you?

Lot of if's but's and a whole lot of sour grapes, do I think you would gain an advantage NO make it so the crowd is half and half and you lose that intimidation factor

 

[estibador]

Would Raf Nedal have won all those French Opens if they were played on grass.
No, but that does not diminish the achievement.

If every time he made a tournament final they switched the venue to let him play on his preferred surface while never giving his opponents the same opportunity, then yeah, it would diminish his achievements.

 

[eldorado]

Uu


I marvel at peoples ability to miss the point - over and over and over.

Firstly. Victorian teams will also beat interstate teams at their homes. This does not mean that interstate teams dont hold a home advantage.

Noone sits there every time a vic team beats an interstate team at their home and says - well thats it - theres no more advantage anymore in being the home team.

They dont say that because they would look like morons. You would be basing a premise on a very small statistical set that doesnt bear comparison with the larger statistical set- which clearly shows that home grounds have a huge advantage for interstate clubs.

Now extrapolate that back to your argument and see how silly it looks.

For another twenty points try and imagine how happy you would be if during the next iron ore boom wa build a 200000 seat stadium and with our cash we bribed our way into a 50 year deal where every gf was played here. How would you like to face us here every time we made the dance? Do you not feel we would gain an advantage?

How do you feel about paying a $3000 dollar air fare to watch your team play?

What if your team lost by a point - after your team finished top of the ladder and the dockers finished 6th but beat you?

I don't give a shit about all that stuff...we're suddenly talking about airfares now? "would Hawthorn have won without...high airfares?"

The thread was about Hawthorn winning at the MCG, and on that, my point stands.

 

[Sleutheren]

While I don't disagree that Hawthorn benefit from the mcg hosting the gf, professional teams should be able to prepare themselves accordingly to play on any deck.
Clarkson gave the eagles a big tip the week before regarding how best to prepare. They changed the dimensions of Waverley to replicate Domain and trained on it all week.
If your game plan doesn't hold up on a ground due to it's dimensions, then you have to adjust.
And the home crowd factor would not have been an influence as there were almost as many eagles fans there as hawks.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

And Geelong of 07 touches up Hawthorn by at least 9 goals.

Your team barely changed going into 2008 and we belted you in that GF.

The Hawks 2014/2015 model would have put 8 goals on the 2007/2008 Geelong team.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Geez if you ever want to explain to someone what cognitive dissonance is - show them this thread.

The same posters who will assert that west coast has a decided home ground advantage compared to vic clubs - will then go on and say they are at no disadvantage playing a granny at the g.

Talk about having your cake and eating it.

Either theres an advantage from playing at subi or there isnt. If there is an advantage to playing at subi - then not playing there negates that advantage - rendering it a disadvantage.

There really is no way out of that.

Having your cake and eating it. No no no.

The assertion was that West Coast were disadvantaged by playing on Hawthorn's home ground, and that contributed to their loss. The counter argument is that while not playing at home was a disadvantage, Hawthorn beat them so comprehensively that surely it's a moot point. Had it been a close loss then we could argue over such esoteric advantages. The exact same could be said about Sydney last year, and I would say it also holds true for Freo. To add to that, when we came up against an interstate side who played well enough to provide a tight contest in 2012, we lost.

There is no evidence to suggest that interstate teams struggle to win Grand Finals, or that they continually lose them by margins which could be attributed to a venue disadvantage.

I'm not saying it's fair that Hawthorn got to play at home, but there is no actual reason to change the rule. There is no suitable venue interstate to maintain the same home and away rules, and there is nothing you can point to except the performance of a team which clearly had bigger problems than the crowd (which was well represented with WC fans, as you know).

No excuses, get better, see you next year.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Its a shame that Geelong had to actually play good teams during our successful years. We could win 8 straight if we had opponents the quality of the Hawks had.

lol, I love the narrative from cats/swans fans whereby they claim the hawks "aren't that good" because they're so much better than everyone else

 

[W.C. Fry]

Here are some more facts:

1. WCE had a much easier draw due to finishing so low on the ladder the previous year.
2. Playing so many lower ranker teams from the year before enabled them to win more games.
3. Not having as many higher ranked (harder) games meant they were fresher to play the harder teams.
4. You're obvious envy makes all us Hawks supporters smile.

I dont believe half the crap on this thread but this is just false. Sure your draw was harder on paper when it was made... but the truth is you had an easy draw. Only played 1 top 8 side twice and got the bye in Carlton twice.

We played 3 top 8 sides twice.

http://m.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-p...2014-premiership/story-e6frf3e3-1227516241041

Hawks had the easiest draw out of all finalists.

 

[walhawk]

If every time he made a tournament final they switched the venue to let him play on his preferred surface while never giving his opponents the same opportunity, then yeah, it would diminish his achievements.

Well that has never happened in footy. We all know where the GF is played, just like we all know the FO is on clay.
WA teams want to have their cake and eat it too.
They want a skinny ground that gives them H & A advantage over visiting team, but the cost of that is that their game play gets exposed on the MCG.
Interesting that the new stadium will still be long and skinny - not as extreme as Subi, but still with a home ground advantage (and therefore a MCG disadvantage).

 

[tige19]

Sad sad thread

 

[kranky al]

Having your cake and eating it. No no no.

The assertion was that West Coast were disadvantaged by playing on Hawthorn's home ground, and that contributed to their loss. The counter argument is that while not playing at home was a disadvantage, Hawthorn beat them so comprehensively that surely it's a moot point. Had it been a close loss then we could argue over such esoteric advantages. The exact same could be said about Sydney last year, and I would say it also holds true for Freo. To add to that, when we came up against an interstate side who played well enough to provide a tight contest in 2012, we lost.

There is no evidence to suggest that interstate teams struggle to win Grand Finals, or that they continually lose them by margins which could be attributed to a venue disadvantage.

I'm not saying it's fair that Hawthorn got to play at home, but there is no actual reason to change the rule. There is no suitable venue interstate to maintain the same home and away rules, and there is nothing you can point to except the performance of a team which clearly had bigger problems than the crowd (which was well represented with WC fans, as you know).

No excuses, get better, see you next year.

If you had read the thread i have stipulated on several occasions that this match wasnt one id consider affected. Hawthorn would have won that game anywhere. I dont know how many times i can say this. Im bored of saying this.

Its like you are all viewing this with a macro lens. Dial down the magnification and look at the bigger picture.

 

[kidkenobi]

So...assuming we both know the grand final will always be at the g, and all interstate teams know this fact when they come into the league...with respect, what is the point of this apart from being a massive cop-out every time an interstate team loses to a Melbourne team?

It's just a perennial free hit... which will last forever. It will come out every time a Victorian team beats an interstate team in the GF (which has happened 5 times) but it will oddly forgotten when an interstate team beats a Victorian team (4 times)

It doesn't make the point any less valid though does it?

 

[pacman]

hahaha yes everyone will remember a qualifying final.

 

[Fabes]

Uu


I marvel at peoples ability to miss the point - over and over and over.

Firstly. Victorian teams will also beat interstate teams at their homes. This does not mean that interstate teams dont hold a home advantage.

Noone sits there every time a vic team beats an interstate team at their home and says - well thats it - theres no more advantage anymore in being the home team.

They dont say that because they would look like morons. You would be basing a premise on a very small statistical set that doesnt bear comparison with the larger statistical set- which clearly shows that home grounds have a huge advantage for interstate clubs.

Now extrapolate that back to your argument and see how silly it looks.

For another twenty points try and imagine how happy you would be if during the next iron ore boom wa build a 200000 seat stadium and with our cash we bribed our way into a 50 year deal where every gf was played here. How would you like to face us here every time we made the dance? Do you not feel we would gain an advantage?

How do you feel about paying a $3000 dollar air fare to watch your team play?

What if your team lost by a point - after your team finished top of the ladder and the dockers finished 6th but beat you?

Lol. All those words you typed up and still it doesn't make sense. A grand final has a 50-50 split of supporters you numpty. Why don't you just type "I'm an idiot" instead of wasting your time on drivel?