Roast Hine lack of Drafting KPP since 2006

[TradeDraft]

Well look in the VFL we have only 2 Young KPP and They are N Brown and Jack Carter and they are Both Key Defenders and No KPF.

Since 2006 the KPP that Hine are:

• Cameron Wood - Massive Dissapointment
• Tobias Thoolen - Complete Dud
• Luke Casey-Leigh - Another Complete Dud
• Jack Carter - Jury Out

We need to look to Draft or Trade for some good young KPP who are not getting a go at there clubs

 

[Zahki]

Off the Dawes bandwagon already?

 

[smiddaz123]

A long term project tall was just what we were missing tonight, definitely.

 

[spartan-magpie]

davo, we're all unhappy abput the loss mate, but you dont need to make 101 negative threads...... we lost coz we played like a bunch of sissies - we dont need to be culling our list just yet, we still have 12 games to get some improvement into us...

 

[Invigoration]

Ever think we don't have young KPPs running around in the VFL because they are all in the AFL Dave? For **** sake.

We have a full spine of young and upcoming key position players, what do we achieve out of drafting more of them? Just leaves us with players that are stuck in the VFL. We have a 10 year spine at the moment, drafting more key position youngsters is just excess.

Brown
Reid
Wood
Cloke
Dawes/Anthony

Even now we can't fit them all into one team, why would we need more?

And this shit:

# Tobias Thoolen - Complete Dud - Pick 60 odd, no quality drafted after him

# Luke Casey-Leigh - Another Complete Dud - Rookie pick, didn't cut it

# Jack Carter - Jury Out - 4 games in the VFL and you are already listing him in these shitty threads

You tell us what blokes Hine should have drafted Dave.

 

[Invigoration]

A long term project tall was just what we were missing tonight, definitely.

****ing lol'd

 

[TradeDraft]

Off the Dawes bandwagon already?

No Way but I am close to getting off Woods One

 

[TradeDraft]

Ever think we don't have young KPPs running around in the VFL because they are all in the AFL Dave? For **** sake.

We have a full spine of young and upcoming key position players, what do we achieve out of drafting more of them? Just leaves us with players that are stuck in the VFL. We have a 10 year spine at the moment, drafting more key position youngsters is just excess.

Brown
Reid
Wood
Cloke
Dawes/Anthony

Even now we can't fit them all into one team, why would we need more?

What happens if they have Injury in the Spine Then?

 

[spartan-magpie]

No Way but I am close to getting off Woods One

you might wanna rephrase that davo

 

[TradeDraft]

so now it's Hines fault that we lost

Not At All but I think the KPP Depth is Poor and Come from people saying Dawes is Usless( I really Disagree) and I saying we have nothing else in the VFL

 

[Carpaccio]

Well look in the VFL we have only 2 Young KPP and They are N Brown and Jack Carter and they are Both Key Defenders and No KPF.

Since 2006 the KPP that Hine are:

• Cameron Wood - Massive Dissapointment
• Tobias Thoolen - Complete Dud
• Luke Casey-Leigh - Another Complete Dud
• Jack Carter - Jury Out

We need to look to Draft or Trade for some good young KPP who are not getting a go at there clubs

Are you ****ing on the level man?

We have had 1 first round draft pick in 07-09.

There certainly is not a plethora of young gun KPP just kicking around in the ressies at other clubs.

 

[Invigoration]

What happens if they have Injury in the Spine Then?

Well it's the same thing as saying what happens if you cop an injury in the ruck. You can't keep 4 quality ruckmen on your list just as backup for injury.
If you draft good young players in a position that is already filled, they simply becoming excess and all that ends up happening in they look for new opportunities.

If we lost a player from our spine, we'd be able to cover them easily. Lose a back and we have both Brown's in the VFL, Jack Carter and Keeffe.

Lose a forward and we are fine as well, I mean, right now our problem is excess key fowards, not a lack of. Dawes goes down and Anthony would slot straight in, and although he is constantly injury, Rusling is a key forward, so any other key position kids we draft are already going to be behind all those guys listed.
What's the point of having a full stock of blokes in the VFL when we have a full stock of youngsters filling roles in the ones already?

Tell me who you would have drafted instead of those blokes you listed though and tell me who they would push out of the current 22 or how they would currently make us a better team?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

A long term project tall was just what we were missing tonight, definitely.

Yep, LOLs aplenty there.

Well look in the VFL we have only 2 Young KPP and They are N Brown and Jack Carter and they are Both Key Defenders and No KPF.

Since 2006 the KPP that Hine are:

• Cameron Wood - Massive Dissapointment
• Tobias Thoolen - Complete Dud
• Luke Casey-Leigh - Another Complete Dud
• Jack Carter - Jury Out

We need to look to Draft or Trade for some good young KPP who are not getting a go at there clubs

Thoolen was a dud, but realistically we could only have gotten Zaharakis a year early there, who knows what might've happened had he not had his U18 season as Knights captain?

LCL also a dud, not sure what we missed out on there, but again we're talking about missing with rookie picks, that happens.

Wood has been a disappointment but he was seen as filling a need we'd all been crying out about for what, 10 years? We had to try something and I refuse to have a whinge about the club trying something with that pick. Would have been nice if we'd drafted Wood instead of Egan in 2004, but we can't change the past.

 

[knightwheelrqr]

Well look in the VFL we have only 2 Young KPP and They are N Brown and Jack Carter and they are Both Key Defenders and No KPF.

Since 2006 the KPP that Hine are:

• Cameron Wood - Massive Dissapointment
• Tobias Thoolen - Complete Dud
• Luke Casey-Leigh - Another Complete Dud
• Jack Carter - Jury Out

We need to look to Draft or Trade for some good young KPP who are not getting a go at there clubs

KPFs = Travis Cloke, Jack Anthony, Chris Dawes and Leigh Brown. 4 is fine. 4-5 is in the right range.

KPBs = Simon Prestigiacomo, Nathan Brown, Ben Reid, Lachlan Keeffe, Jack Carter. *read forward*

Rucks = Darren Jolly, Josh Fraser, Cameron Wood, Shae McNamara *once of the strongest ruck divisions in the league..*


Would like to see more kicking specialists introduced into the side to be honest because I see our smaller forward debth getting low with Leon and Medhurst not young, then Didak playing mostly midfield now. Even another medium forward would be nice in the Steve Johnson, Ryan O'Keefe type mold to compliment our current bigs who will continue to develop.

In terms of KPFs Cloke, Dawes and JA is a reasonable core going forward..

From 2012 we will do the KPP injection like we did when we got Dawes, Reid and Brown all in the one draft class.

 

[kevind]

Well it's the same thing as saying what happens if you cop an injury in the ruck. You can't keep 4 quality ruckmen on your list just as backup for injury.
If you draft good young players in a position that is already filled, they simply becoming excess and all that ends up happening in they look for new opportunities.

If we lost a player from our spine, we'd be able to cover them easily. Lose a back and we have both Brown's in the VFL, Jack Carter and Keeffe.

Lose a forward and we are fine as well, I mean, right now our problem is excess key fowards, not a lack of. Dawes goes down and Anthony would slot straight in, and although he is constantly injury, Rusling is a key forward, so any other key position kids we draft are already going to be behind all those guys listed.
What's the point of having a full stock of blokes in the VFL when we have a full stock of youngsters filling roles in the ones already?

Tell me who you would have drafted instead of those blokes you listed though and tell me who they would push out of the current 22 or how they would currently make us a better team?

You having a laugh.

I would give you 1000-1 on any of those highlighted players becoming quality AFL players.

As for Dawes and Anthony, they both have major problems in their games. Anthony is not a key forward and Dawes struggles to mark overhead.

Talk about Collingwood supporters overrating their players!!!!!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I would give you 1000-1 on any of those highlighted players becoming quality AFL players.

Right-oh, what's the maximum bet you'll take @ 1000-1 on Nathan Brown becoming a quality AFL player? Name your liability.

 

[kevind]

Right-oh, what's the maximum bet you'll take @ 1000-1 on Nathan Brown becoming a quality AFL player? Name your liability.

That depends on your definition of 'quality' ,n'est pas ?

I would suggest that quality would be in the top 5 KDs in the AFL. All subjective, really.ATM, he would be struggling to be in the top 5 in the VFL.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I'd say there are more than 5 quality KPDs in the league. At any rate, in another thread you said N Brown is a 50/50 chance to "make it" at AFL level, in which case 1000-1 is just a modicum over the odds.

 

[Invigoration]

You having a laugh.

I would give you 1000-1 on any of those highlighted players becoming quality AFL players.

As for Dawes and Anthony, they both have major problems in their games. Anthony is not a key forward and Dawes struggles to mark overhead.

Talk about Collingwood supporters overrating their players!!!!!

I'll gladly take the odds on Nathan Brown. Give me 10k on it please.

Leigh Brown has nearly 200 AFL games, he is already a proven AFL quality. I'm obviously not saying he is the future, but if we had an injury he could easily come in and cover, just as he did for 23 odd games last year.

Keefe is tracking okay and I've only seen Carter twice, so I can't really comment.

Anthony kicked 50 goals last year, Dawes has played quite well this year.

You completely missed the point though, I'm not overrating those guys at all, I'm just saying we have young blokes already filling those key positions spots at AFL level. Who are you suggesting we should have drafted instead that would be completely without deficiencies and would be much better for our team currently?
Everyone was saying it should have been Tippett last year, and now look how he is tracking.

It was exactly as Smiddaz said, a long term KPP was exactly what we needed tonight... right

Unrealistic expectations, there wouldn't be many key talls that are tracking significantly better than our lot since '06, so why are people so quick to write off our guys?

 

[kevind]

I'd say there are more than 5 quality KPDs in the league. At any rate, in another thread you said N Brown is a 50/50 chance to "make it" at AFL level, in which case 1000-1 is just a modicum over the odds.

Making it is a long way from quality. Lots of players make it but are not quality. eg. Many players in our 2002/2003 GF sides 'made it' but were not quality. I tend to think that N Brown will make it, certainly not confident of that though, but I doubt he will become a top 5 KD in the AFL.

 

[Rohan25]

You having a laugh.

[youtube]rXp96Um-TAs&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[kevind]

It was exactly as Smiddaz said, a long term KPP was exactly what we needed tonight... right

Unrealistic expectations, there wouldn't be many key talls that are tracking significantly better than our lot since '06, so why are people so quick to write off our guys?

Off the top of my head- At Essendon,Hurley, Gumbleton, Pears and throw in Ryder who is capable as a KP or ruckman. Riewoldt at Richmond. Jesse White at the Swans. Grant at the Dogs. Podsiadly, the guy who plays CHB at North, forget his name for the moment. There are possibly more, but it is probably irrelevant to our situation or my argument, unless it were a debate about recruiting.

Certainly we haven't had a lot of early draft picks to get our hands on KPs, but IMO we have a huge problem looming concerning KPs when Presti goes.

Throwing up names like Keefe, McNamara and Rusling is extremely wishful thinking.

Out of Dawes, Reid and N Brown, I think Reid is the most likely to make it. Dawes, I think will struggle due to his deficiency overhead and N Brown is anyone's guess. JA is simply not big enough to play KF successfully.

Beyond these 3 , there is absolutely no one in sight.

 

[Paddywhackers]

We need to recruit KPP in the upcoing draft. If there is a way to get a high pick through trades without losing anything great, than so be it. It is a concern. Presti... umbelievable how good that guy has been for us. Was very good again tonight.

I guess Presti did take a while as a defender, so that is food for thought.

 

[Darkdayz]

we really need to stop picking up these athletic utility type players Mick and Hine seem to love. Honesty pick someone up who, i dont know can read the bloody play and take a mark. I mean seriously, look at the pod, not overly athletic, not super tall, super strong, but oh yeah has a FOOTY brain. Barlow "footy brain", Rusty"footy brain". you cant have 40 odd running machines out there you really need a few with some ball reading skills, one touch skills, can mark above shoulders, can KICK [big one here lady and gents].

sigh rant over

 

[Invigoration]

Off the top of my head- At Essendon,Hurley, Gumbleton, Pears and throw in Ryder who is capable as a KP or ruckman. Riewoldt at Richmond. Jesse White at the Swans. Grant at the Dogs. Podsiadly, the guy who plays CHB at North, forget his name for the moment. There are possibly more, but it is probably irrelevant to our situation or my argument, unless it were a debate about recruiting.

Certainly we haven't had a lot of early draft picks to get our hands on KPs, but IMO we have a huge problem looming concerning KPs when Presti goes.

Throwing up names like Keefe, McNamara and Rusling is extremely wishful thinking.

Out of Dawes, Reid and N Brown, I think Reid is the most likely to make it. Dawes, I think will struggle due to his deficiency overhead and N Brown is anyone's guess. JA is simply not big enough to play KF successfully.

Beyond these 3 , there is absolutely no one in sight.

Here I was thinking we couldn't just magically draft players that went before the picks we had
Name blokes we should have and COULD have taken that would be in our team now (while realising how easy it all is in hindsight ofc).

So scratch Pears, Gumby and Hurley, all who we obviously couldn't have drafted.

Riewoldt has been ridiculously maligned and is continually flamed for his lack of performance to date. Wouldn't be any different if he was playing for us.

Jesse White continually gets dropped from a lesser Sydney Swans line up and has kicked less than half the goals JA did in one year, in his whole career.

Grant who couldn't get a game until 5 weeks ago, considered largely disappointing until recently. Still extremely skinny and no better performed than any of our talls.

Podsiadly... seriously? The guy was overlooked by 16 clubs for 10 years, be realistic.

I never named McNamara, and I listed the other two as depth and potential back up. Like I said though, you are missing the point. If we had drafted any more KPPs recently with high picks, they'd be stuck in the VFL. We have high pick talls playing in the AFL now, just because they aren't up to your expectations doesn't mean they aren't the answer.
What would be the good of having Jesse White now or Jarryd Grant, neither are any better performed than the guys we are currently playing.

It's the same thing as saying that after Wood we have no quality ruckmen coming through, well ****, obviously. If we had a quality young ruckman, he wouldn't be in the VFL, he'd be playing AFL. You can only have so many of one type on the list though.

Reid and Brown will both be fine, nothing to suggest they won't be completely solid and competent players. Very few KPD 21 year olds are doing as well as them now.
Cloke is a quality CHF, position filled. Hopefully one of Dawes and Anthony come on, again, very few 21 year old KPFs are outperforming them at this stage. Certainly very, very few that were taken after them in the draft.

The other guys are speculative and depth for a reason, there is only 4 KP spots in an AFL team, why would you have an excess of that sort?
Humour me the AFL teams that have depth in these positions that we should be aspiring too.