Can Port win a premiership under Ken Hinkley?

[GastevsBeard]

Is there a bit of the Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

's about Ken Hinkley?

Acknowledging CS won a flag in his first season (albeit with Bombers list) - but they both share a similar history of

• constant top 4 finishes
• enviable ability to regenerate a list on the run

Now CS as we know managed to break through with another flag in 2022

If Ken can win it this year, will he convince Port supporters he is the right man for the job? & if he does, his CV all of a sudden looks like one of the most decorated in the afl

It is easy to say 'we need a new coach' but look at my mob barely 12 months after Dimma left. Players heading for the exits via trade / FA / retirement left right & centre. Be careful what you wish for Port fans

 

[Schulzenfest]

If Ken can win it this year, will he convince Port supporters he is the right man for the job? & if he does, his CV all of a sudden looks like one of the most decorated in the afl

Actually if he wins the flag this year he's still the least successful 12 season coach of all time. Every other coach who's coached 12 seasons has at least one flag and at least two Grand Finals.

 

[RCAB]

Actually if he wins the flag this year he's still the least successful 12 season coach of all time. Every other coach who's coached 12 seasons has at least one flag and at least two Grand Finals.

Which current AFL coach would make Port better now?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Which current AFL coach would make Port better now?

Chris Fagan, Craig McRae, Chris Scott, Damien Hardwick, Simon Goodwin, Alistair Clarkson, Ross Lyon, John Longmire, Adam Simpson, Luke Beveridge have all achieved more. Would also happily swap for Adam Kingsley or Sam Mitchell, who both look like extremely promising young coaches who have their teams playing with the right attitude.

 

[RCAB]

Chris Fagan, Craig McRae, Chris Scott, Damien Hardwick, Simon Goodwin, Alistair Clarkson, Ross Lyon, John Longmire, Adam Simpson, Luke Beveridge have all achieved more. Would also happily swap for Adam Kingsley or Sam Mitchell, who both look like extremely promising young coaches who have their teams playing with the right attitude.

I just asked you to pick one. Posted Fagan first. How would you rate Lions list? He hasn't won a flag, was top 4 not long ago now they've dropped out, with long periods in games where they do nothing. That's going to make Port better?

 

[LeoMessi]

Will lose to Giants or Cats week one and then get done by the Lions the week after.

Thread irrelevant

You think it will happen or you wish it will happen?

 

[Rotayjay]

Well, Squiggle is predicting a Port-Bulldogs grand final. That'd be interesting.

 

[Macca19]

I love the assumption that we will win a final to get into a prelim

 

[NetworkNerd]

You could line up at the MCC members at 2pm grand final day and get seats on level 2.

100K easily. People will always turn up to a GF

 

[Schulzenfest]

I just asked you to pick one. Posted Fagan first. How would you rate Lions list? He hasn't won a flag, was top 4 not long ago now they've dropped out, with long periods in games where they do nothing. That's going to make Port better?

Fagan has made a GF in 8 years, Hinkley hasn't made one in 12. What more do you need?

I'm not getting into the entirely subjective and unmeasurable 'how do you rate their list' argument, except to say that coaching and tactics heavily influences how people rate a list. A list with Jason Castagna, Jack Graham, Kamdyn McIntosh and Marlion Pickett in its best 22 won three premierships. Not one of those players would get a game for us.

How did you rate Collingwood's list at the end of 2021 when they finished 17th before Craig McRae came along?

 

[GastevsBeard]

Actually if he wins the flag this year he's still the least successful 12 season coach of all time. Every other coach who's coached 12 seasons has at least one flag and at least two Grand Finals.

& the vast majority of coaches never coach a premiership, or a decade of regular top 4 finishes

a lot of neutrals find the hate-boner for Ken completely irrational. Ask an Essendon fan how they would feel about having the decade of footy Port has had? Even if tomorrow Ken was to quit, he would leave the club / list in a very healthy shape

 

[Schulzenfest]

& the vast majority of coaches never coach a premiership

Which is why they get sacked and replaced with coaches who might be able to win one.

Can you name another coach who has been given 12 years worth of chances at the same club and never made a GF? Don't bother looking it up, there isn't one. There isn't even another one who's been given 10 years worth of chances, let alone 12. Ken broke that record about two and a half years ago.

a lot of neutrals find the hate-boner for Ken completely irrational. Ask an Essendon fan how they would feel about having the decade of footy Port has had?

Essendon changed their coach four times over the past decade, so what relevance you think this has to why Port should have kept Hinkley for 12 seasons is a difficult one to figure out.

Ask any neutral football fan to choose between the following two options for their club for the next decade:

1) clean slate. Anything could happen. You could be dogshit the whole time. You could win a flag or two. Who knows?

2) You'll never fully bottom out, but you'll only win two finals over the entire decade and you'll never make a GF, let alone win one.

There are two types of football fans; football fans who would pick option 1, and ****ing losers.

Even if tomorrow Ken was to quit, he would leave the club / list in a very healthy shape

That's funny, because every other campaigner in this thread is defending him by saying he couldn't possibly be expected to achieve anything more with Port's mediocre list. So which is it?

 

[Back One Out]

If Ken Hinkley bottles another preliminary final or goes out in straight sets this September, what would be his legacy as coach after a decade at the helm?

Can you explain to me how a coach "bottles" a Prelim Final ? I get that people love to accuse opponents of being chokers. It's a really popular sledge which people are happy to use. It's overworn, in my opinion. Teams lose. Teams win. But surely if it does apply, then it's the actual players who should wear the choker criticism. (Not every player either, but the shrinking violets who actually let their teammates and coaches down.)

Anyway, why the negative take? Hinkley deserves credit for taking his team into multiple Prelim Finals. He has done a terrific job in recent years with four Top 4 appearances since COVID in 2020. Would another coach have done any better than Ken? I strongly doubt it...

Year.... W/L.......%........Pos... Finals
2024... 15-7.... 114.2... 2nd
2023... 17-6.... 112.8... 3rd... L L - -
2022... 10-12.. 110.7... 11th
2021... 17-5.... 126.3... 2nd...W - L -
2020... 14-3.... 136.4... 1st... W - L -
2019... 11-11… 105.4... 10th
2018... 12-10.. 107.6... 10th
2017... 14-8.... 129.7... 5th... L - - -
2016... 10-12.. 106.0... 10th
2015... 12-10.. 106.8... 9th
2014... 14-8.... 129.9... 5th... W W L -
2013... 12-10.. 102.5... 7th... W L - -


Apart from the deluded Port nuffs, does anyone seriously rate Port as a dominant premiership contender loaded with superior talent to their AFL rivals? Richmond, Geelong, Melbourne and Brisbane had them well covered in recent years. Even this year. Nobody has mentioned them in the same breath as Sydney, Brisbane, Carlton or Collingwood.

Yet here we are... Just one round out from the finals series and Kenny has done it again. He has coached Port to 15+ wins again and another possible flag assault from a top 4 position. He deserves people's praise for that. Not their scorn.


In my opinion, Port are massive over-achievers to get themselves consistently into the Top 4 and premiership calculations. It's got me f**ked why people always want to look for the negatives and be critical about such things instead of commending them for going close, but falling short.



Seriously, who have they got? A trio of midfield stars: Butters, Horne-Francis and Rozee (who was injured in April-May)
Houston is a star, but every team has someone like him rolling off half back.

Not a lot of support for their 3 midfield guns. There's Ollie Wines; William Drew; Miles Bergman... Their 3 big guns give them the midfield advantage over most of their rivals, but it's not a overwhelmingly dominant midfield group like Brisbane 2001-03, West Coast 2005-06, Geelong 2007-09, Collingwood 2010-11, etc...

They have a pair of average ruckmen. Sweet and Soldo are decent enough, but they're not exactly world-beaters

Who else?

They had to go chasing key defenders last October because they were so deficient in this area.
Aliir Aliir is good, but he has been inconsistent over the years.. Ratugolea and Zero-Thatchers are average at best.



What about their forward line? It's decent, but not great...

Charlie Dixon has failed to deliver when it counts. He has always been talked up as though he's one of the competition's superstar forwards, but let's be clear... Charlie is no Hogan/Curnow/Hawkins gun. He has had the ONE great season: 2021 when he kicked 48 goals and was probably a little bit lucky to be named All Australian CHF

Georgiades is pretty good, but had his share of injuries... Finlayson has shown he has legit star quality, but he's always injured. He's out for the season (same with Powell-Pepper.)

Todd Marshall isn't great. Pretty ordinary, really.

Willie Rioli is a mercurial goal sneak. He kicks some unbelievable goals. He has the talent to be one of the AFL's premier small forwards, but he has yet to really deliver on a consistent level. His 31 goals in 2023 was his best season tally.



It's up to the Port players to seize their chances this September. Hinkley & his assistants can help them, but they can't do it for them. Their good work is mostly done anyway. They prepared their players over summer. They devised a gameplan and structures. They've fine-tuned things throughout the season and they've put work each week into countering their opponents. But it's up up to the players to produce their best this September.

If they fall short, so be it... That won't make Kenny a failure. Premierships and Grand Final appareances are not gifted to anyone. Despite their historical success in the SANFL, it's not Port's divine right to play in Grand Finals. The odds are against them doing so this year. ($2.75 on Sportsbet, which translates to a 33% chance of reaching the GF.)

Hinkley probably won't be remembered fondly by the idiot Port fans, but I think he has done great job with the resources available to him.

 

[mattsk88]

Optimistic of you to think they would even make it to the Preliminary Final

 

[PCORF]

Optimistic of you to think they would even make it to the Preliminary Final

Also Port have lost 2 home preliminary finals in 2020 2021. Against Hawthorn in 2014 poor kicking for goal let them down.

 

[ibd77]

Can you explain to me how a coach "bottles" a Prelim Final ? I get that people love to accuse opponents of being "chokers"... It's a really popular sledge which people are happy to use... It's overworn, in my opinion... Teams lose. Teams win. But surely if it does apply, then it's the actual players who should wear it. (Not every player either, but the shrinking violets who actually let their teammates and coaches down )

Anyway, why the negative take? Hinkley deserves credit for taking his team into multiple Prelim Finals. He has done a terrific job in recent years with four Top 4 appearances since COVID in 2020. Would another coach have done any better than Ken? I strongly doubt it...

Year.... W/L.......%........Pos... Finals
2024... 15-7.... 114.2... 2nd
2023... 17-6.... 112.8... 3rd... L L - -
2022... 10-12.. 110.7... 11th
2021... 17-5.... 126.3... 2nd...W - L -
2020... 14-3.... 136.4... 1st... W - L -
2019... 11-11… 105.4... 10th
2018... 12-10.. 107.6... 10th
2017... 14-8.... 129.7... 5th... L - - -
2016... 10-12.. 106.0... 10th
2015... 12-10.. 106.8... 9th
2014... 14-8.... 129.9... 5th... W W L -
2013... 12-10.. 102.5... 7th... W L - -


Apart from the deluded Port nuffs, does anyone seriously rate Port as a dominant premiership contender loaded with superior talent to their AFL rivals? Richmond, Geelong, Melbourne and Brisbane had them well covered in recent years. Even this year.. Nobody has mentioned them in the same breath as Sydney, Brisbane, Carlton or Collingwood...

Yet here we are... Just one round out from the finals series and Kenny has done it again... He has coached Port to 15+ wins again and another possible flag assault from a top 4 position. He deserves people's credit for that. Not their scorn.


In my opinion, Port are massive over-achievers to get themselves consistently into the Top 4 and premiership calculations. It's got me f**ked why people always want to look for the negatives and be critical about such things instead of commending them for going close, but falling short.



Seriously, who have they got? A trio of midfield stars: Butters, Horne-Francis and Rozee (who was injured in April-May)
Houston is a star... But every team has someone like him rolling off half back.

Not a lot of support for their guns... Ollie Wines... William Drew... Miles Bergman... Their "big 3" gives them the midfield advantage over most of their rivals, but it's not a overwhelmingly dominant midfield group like Brisbane's 2001-03, West Coast 2005-06, Geelong 2007-09, Collingwood 2010-11, etc...

They have a pair of average ruckmen. Sweet and Soldo are decent enough, but they're not exactly world-beaters

Who else?

They had to go chasing key defenders last October because they were so deficient in this area.
Aliir Aliir is good, but he has been inconsistent over the years.. Ratugolea and Zero-Thatchers are average at best.



What about their forward line? It's decent, but not great...

Charlie Dixon has failed to deliver when it counts. He has always been talked up as though he's one of the competition's superstar forwards, but let's be clear... Charlie is no Hogan/Curnow/Hawkins gun. He has had the ONE great season: 2021 when he kicked 48 goals and was probably a little bit lucky to be named All Australian CHF

Georgiades is pretty good, but had his share of injuries... Finlayson has shown he has legit star quality, but he's always injured. He's out for the season (same with Powell-Pepper.)

Todd Marshall isn't great. Pretty ordinary, really.

Willie Rioli is a mercurial goal sneak. He kicks some unbelievable goals. He has the talent to be one of the AFL's premier small forwards, but he has yet to really deliver on a consistent level. His 31 goals in 2023 was his best season tally.



It's up to the Port players to seize their chances this September. Hinkley & his assistants can help them, but they can't do it for them. Their good work is mostly done anyway. They prepared their players over summer. They devised a gameplan and structures. They've fine-tuned things throughout the season and they've put work each week into countering their opponents. But it's up up to the players to produce their best this September.

If they fall short, so be it... That won't make Kenny a failure. Premierships and Grand Final appareances are not gifted to anyone. Despite their historical success in the SANFL, it's not Port's divine right to play in Grand Finals. The odds are against them doing so this year. ($2.75 on Sportsbet, which translates to a 33% chance of reaching the GF.)

Hinkley probably won't be remembered fondly by the idiot Port fans, but I think he has done great job with the resources available to him.

You are effectively saying that Ken is a great coach but only has average players at his disposal.

You are forgetting to mention that he turned over this list 3 times to the current iteration and still cant get an Grand Final appearance or even win an sudden death final since 2014. He keeps stating that the list has been the best that there has ever been.

He cant blame our recruiters because they have done exactly what was asked of them.

Comparing playing list to playing list is a very subjective matter when it comes to success. Just look at Collingwood as exhibit A. Their playing list is probably over rated consider their finishing positions for the last three years. They won a flag last year based on team principles, first with flashes of brilliance from players, second. But then look at them this year and its a whole different story.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

If they do, it’ll be Ken’s doing

If they win the flag, it’ll be everybody but Ken’s doing

 

[Drunk_off_R0zee]

I think we'll at least make it this year, dunno, just a vibe. It's about time we win it all anyway

 

[Puddy]

Seems to coach better when under pressure.

 

[RCAB]

Fagan has made a GF in 8 years, Hinkley hasn't made one in 12. What more do you need?

You don't see how you're splitting hairs here?

I'm not getting into the entirely subjective and unmeasurable 'how do you rate their list' argument, except to say that coaching and tactics heavily influences how people rate a list.

Stop gaslighting. You do this constantly and the main reason you've criticised Ken.

How did you rate Collingwood's list at the end of 2021 when they finished 17th before Craig McRae came along?

So we're off Fagan from this post, you'd take McCrae?

 

[RCAB]

Essendon changed their coach four times over the past decade,

I wouldn't use Essendon in a comparison for a model of administration.

 

[GastevsBeard]

That's funny, because every other campaigner in this thread is defending him by saying he couldn't possibly be expected to achieve anything more with Port's mediocre list. So which is it?

I would say Port have a strong list - not sure if it is premiers worthy. The only seasons I thought you were a genuine shot were 2014 when Ken bottled lightning, and 2020 where frankly the prelim against Richmond could have gone either way

All I am saying is if Ken is unceremoniously marched out & you bottle the next senior coach appointment, don't cry foul if blokes like Butters suddenly get "home sick". Seems pretty clear the players are behind the coach

 

[Schulzenfest]

You don't see how you're splitting hairs here?

No, I don't see how comparing the record of one coach who has made a GF in 8 seasons as coach to another coach who has not made a GF in 12 seasons as coach (again, the one and only coach in AFL history to have ever coached 10 years without making one, let alone 12) is splitting hairs. Fagan has been around four less years and still has a better record. That's not splitting hairs. That's a very significant difference.

Stop gaslighting. You do this constantly and the main reason you've criticised Ken.

What does this even mean lol

So we're off Fagan from this post, you'd take McCrae?

I'd take Fagan or McRae or anyone else from the twelve blokes I listed, yes.

 

[Dan26]

Yet here we are... Just one round out from the finals series and Kenny has done it again... He has coached Port to 15+ wins again and another possible flag assault from a top 4 position. He deserves people's credit for that. Not their scorn.

Exactly.

This thread proves to me that the human brain of most people don’t really understand numbers. It’s as if people don’t understand that only 1 team out of 18 wins the premiership.

If Port are one of the 17 teams that don’t win the premiership (or 16 teams that don’t make Grand Final) this is normal, and expected.

The same fools calling for Hinkley head would be the same fools claiming Brisbane underachieved if they don’t win the premiership. How about we just award three premierships every year to give to the three-or-so teams who are good enough to win it.

The average human brain does not understand numbers and the unlikelyhood of certain events happening

 

[OhhhhhCyril]

On the assumption they are going to make a prelim this year?