How has Dean Bailey escaped the axe?

[melbournemartin]

Garry has had to put up with it for much longer than Hird though.

I would be at all surprised if Melbourne went for Malthouse and I'm sure Malthouse would at least be tempted by the offer. He would have a field day with our superb group of youngsters.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

what exactly were the idiots in this thread expecting of Melbourne this year? top 8 easy? top 4?

Sounds like almost the bunch of you have very little idea about football and the time it takes to build a team, we won't turn into a great team overnight (or alternatively two seasons)

If anything else look at our drafting recently ... case in point pick 12 2010, Lucas Cook

Cook being able to contribute well to the team is undoutbedly at least 2 more years away, why did we draft him? because we felt that when he was going to start playing some good football we would be in a good position and would have developed a relatively strong team (top 6 imo)

How long did it take Geelong to build towards it's dynasty after their key drafts of 99 and 01?

How long did it take collingwood after 05? (5 years and they really are the exception)

How long did it take St Kilda to become a powerful team after it all started in 2000?

08 was the start of our 'rebuild' with Bailey, he has time on his side... he does need to lift the team from it's current slump however

 

[whelan=legend]

Anyone who says cutting Miller, Bruce, Robertson, McLean, Johnstone etc was a mistake is quite simply an absolute moron.

McDonald is the only player we cut that I would keep.

 

[doppleganger]

How long did it take Geelong to build towards it's dynasty after their key drafts of 99 and 01?

Geelong won 11 games in 2002 and in 2004 they played in a PF.

How long did it take collingwood after 05? (5 years and they really are the exception)

Collingwood played finals in 2006, and a PF in 2007.

How long did it take St Kilda to become a powerful team after it all started in 2000?

St.Kilda won 11 games in 2003 and in 2004 played in a PF.

08 was the start of our 'rebuild' with Bailey, he has time on his side... he does need to lift the team from it's current slump however

Basically those teams were playing in a PF after 3 or 4 years.

This is Bailey's 4th year...good luck making a PF

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I was talking about premierships and premiership contention not finals appearances, isn't that the goal of
footy clubs?

Geelong took 9 years since 99 to win a premiership

St Kilda took 7 years to become a legitimate threat

Collingwood 5

 

[MightyTiger]

Geelong won 11 games in 2002 and in 2004 they played in a PF.


Collingwood played finals in 2006, and a PF in 2007.


St.Kilda won 11 games in 2003 and in 2004 played in a PF.


Basically those teams were playing in a PF after 3 or 4 years.

This is Bailey's 4th year...good luck making a PF

What this guy said.

I'll use my own club as an example, Richmond came out and said that they expect to play in 3 finals series in 5 years, so 2 years as development 2010/2011 and from 2012 onwards we must make the finals, 2012 will be DH 3rd year into a major re-build that was much larger then Melbournes and without the top end draft picks that Melbourne had received for bottoming out.

After 4 years the expectations on Bailey is to only get a few wins?

Surely 4 years is ample time to turn over a list, develop that list and have a game-plan set in place that will stand up in finals.

The bar is set way way to low at Melbourne I think, to many front runners getting games because there is no pressure on Bailey to make the hard calls and drop certain players.

 

[MightyTiger]

I was talking about premierships and premiership contention not finals appearances, isn't that the goal of
footy clubs?

Geelong took 9 years since 99 to win a premiership

Saint Kilda took 7 years to become a legitimate threat

Collingwood 5

You have to start somewhere, winning a GF doesn't suddenly happen, it takes time and teams usually play in finals 2-3 times before they get to the big dance.

 

[R00StaR]

Some teams loaded up on the freebies more than others

 

[melbournemartin]

Anyone who says cutting Miller, Bruce, Robertson, McLean, Johnstone etc was a mistake is quite simply an absolute moron.

McDonald is the only player we cut that I would keep.

And people should remember that we traded McLean for the pick with which we got Jordan Gysberts, who is already a superior player.

 

[SupportMe]

I rate Melbourne and still think they'll make the 8 - which in itself is a solid improvement on last year. Yes, I do agree McDonald should have been given one more year at least and the Hawthorn loss was less than encouraging (some good patches of football though). However, West Coast are extremely hard to beat at home and losing Jamar, Trengove and Grimes in one fell swoop didn't bode well for the North match. In regards to Bailey's "nice guy persona" I seem to remember people criticising Mark Harvey a couple of seasons ago for being a bit of a soft touch towards his players and focused too heavily on youth. Last year showed that he was right in doing what he did and despite this season being injury plagued, they are on the right track. In time, Melbourne will be too.

 

[doppleganger]

I was talking about premierships and premiership contention not finals appearances, isn't that the goal of
footy clubs?

You have to make and experience finals before can ever even think of winning premierships.

Geelong took 9 years since 99 to win a premiership

???

Geelong in 99 won 10 games
Geelong in 2000 played in the finals
Geelong in 2001 won 9 games


When were they ever an uncompetitive rabble like Melbourne???

St Kilda took 7 years to become a legitimate threat

???

In 2004 they were a kick away from a GF...losing a close PF by 6 points.
In 2005 they again lost in the PF after being in front @ 3 quarter time.

Collingwood 5

Collingwood won the wooden spoon in 1999....the club was a rabble....3 years later we almost won the 2002 premiership.

Collingwood had a couple of poor years 04-05, but have played finals in 02,03,06,07,08,09 and 10.

Collingwood and Geelong are clubs that didn't embrace losing like Melbourne, and all spent less time down the bottom and ultimately the winning culture paid off.

Funny that the one club who didn't win the flag was St.Kilda.....and they arguably had the most talented youngsters and all of the top draft picks......just like Melbourne!

 

[Swampfox]

How has Dean Bailey escaped the axe for so long.
Here are the historical end of year positions under Bailey's coaching.
Year EOY Ladder Pos.
2008 16
2009 16
2010 12
2011 9
Compare this with Essendon who sacked their coach
Year EOY Ladder Pos.
2008 12
2009 8
2010 14
2011 3
Now Harvey's peformance was arguabley better than Bailey's but his blood was still demanded by the supporters and board. They got what they wanted and a huge turnaround as a result. Are Melbourne so used to losing that they are going to put up with lack of results for years to come?

Your concerns , thoughts and best wishes towards our football club is very touching

Bailey has a contract and Melbourne will honor it till the seasons end

Along with every other poster on here Bailey,s KPI,s are unknown and pure speculation

Everyone at Melbourne knows we are 2 - 3 years away from Finals

 

[BarneyBent]

I don't get the angst over Melbourne's performances so far this year. As it stands, they've played some very good footy, they've played some very bad footy. They're half a win outside the top 8 as it stands, with plenty of room for improvement throughout the year.

They might be inconsistent, but they're a young team, that's to be expected. At least they've shown something.

 

[spudmaster]

I don't get the angst over Melbourne's performances so far this year. As it stands, they've played some very good footy, they've played some very bad footy. They're half a win outside the top 8 as it stands, with plenty of room for improvement throughout the year.

They might be inconsistent, but they're a young team, that's to be expected. At least they've shown something.

Agreed with this.
Scully has obviously not been able to get out onto the park yet, and they will look a better side when their two prized midfield draft picks, coupled with steady improvement from their number1 pick in Watts, all play and learn together each week as a group.

When they win they haven't been taking their foot off the gas and cruising which is a positive sign, but similarly when they lose, they tend to lose by a hefty margin as well.

They are showing signs of improvement.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

Garry has had to put up with it for much longer than Hird though.

I would be at all surprised if Melbourne went for Malthouse and I'm sure Malthouse would at least be tempted by the offer. He would have a field day with our superb group of youngsters.

what exactly were the idiots in this thread expecting of Melbourne this year? top 8 easy? top 4?

It's ironic to see 2 regular posters who are poles apart in where they think their list sits.

So are we to assume your list as as good the man coaching it?

 

[Ando727]

Everyone at Melbourne knows we are 2 - 3 years away from Finals

God, I would hope not! Imagine waiting another 3 years to play in a final...

Melbourne should be pushing for finals this year (we won't though). Making the finals next year is essential. I make no excuses for my club. We have been a rabble for too long. I think we do have a losing culture. We need a genuine master coach to change the feel of the whole playing group.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

You have to start somewhere, winning a GF doesn't suddenly happen, it takes time and teams usually play in finals 2-3 times before they get to the big dance.

I completely agree, and I would expect us to play finals next year.

It's all very well for people to say 'Bailey is in his 4th year rah rah rah, they should be playing finals rah rah'

But that basically ignores the context of the situation, we were coming from a LONG way back as a football club in regards to almost everything, that is just starting to turn around

Realistically Bailey's 10' was the first year of any real expectation of 'competitiveness' just due to the dire state of our list in 08 when he started

It's only 7 rounds in, he has time to turn it around and it will be tough... 8 wins will probably get him a new contract considering how injury hit we are atm

Any less and he should be gone.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

It's ironic to see 2 regular posters who are poles apart in where they think their list sits.

So are we to assume your list as as good the man coaching it?

Don't be daft, having a talented group of youngsters doesn't mean he expects them to automatically be a finals contender

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

You have to make and experience finals before can ever even think of winning premierships.


???

Geelong in 99 won 10 games
Geelong in 2000 played in the finals
Geelong in 2001 won 9 games


When were they ever an uncompetitive rabble like Melbourne???


???

In 2004 they were a kick away from a GF...losing a close PF by 6 points.
In 2005 they again lost in the PF after being in front @ 3 quarter time.




Collingwood won the wooden spoon in 1999....the club was a rabble....3 years later we almost won the 2002 premiership.

Collingwood had a couple of poor years 04-05, but have played finals in 02,03,06,07,08,09 and 10.

Collingwood and Geelong are clubs that didn't embrace losing like Melbourne, and all spent less time down the bottom and ultimately the winning culture paid off.

Funny that the one club who didn't win the flag was St.Kilda.....and they arguably had the most talented youngsters and all of the top draft picks......just like Melbourne!

None of those clubs came from as far back as Melbourne realistically, even the Saints

I wasn't using them as a 'carbon copy' example Collingwood and Geelong especially have remained competitive for long periods without having to go through the draft

I'll say it again Bailey's real coaching tenure started in 2010, we make finals next year and all is going to the Admin and FD's plan

No doubt you need to think of finals before premierships, let me get one point through I wasn't labeling those years as years of failure, I was labeling those years in which teams got key personnel

Geelong 99 and 01 was something like Chapman, Ling, Enright, Bartel, Ablett, Johnson, Corey, Kelly ... no one can doubt that was a bumper period for them

Saints 00, 01, 02 brought Ball, Riewoldt, Kosi, Goddard

Magpies 05 (even 04 and 06 as key drafts) brought them Cloke, Maxwell (elevated), Pendlebury, Thomas, Reid, Brown, Dawes, Goldsack


For me Melbourne's key years will end up being 08 and 09

 

[doppleganger]

None of those clubs came from as far back as Melbourne realistically, even the Saints

Pull the other one mate.

Collingwood late 90s were a rabble on-field and off-field.

St.Kilda fell apart after sacking Stan Alves.....Watson and Blight were terrible coaching appointments and they only won 2 games in 2000.

Carlton was torn apart by draft penalties, came from way further back than Melbourne...yet Pagan was sacked after 'winning' consecutive spoons.

What is with this poor old Melbourne bullshit??

The club opted to trade/delist/forcefully retire anybody over the age of 26 or so that could actually play football.

This gifted Bailey a charmed run of 3 seasons where he had no expectation to win a game of football. Melbourne's only thinking being that a great junior player must become a great senior player.....and if we are sh1t and stockpile them we must become a force.

Some clubs have a desire to win and be successful....then there is Melbourne.

 

[Beth]

I've always been under the impression that Bailey is a junior's type coach, the specialist brought in to develop the kids to a point where he will hand them over to a more hard nosed experienced figure. In which case I think he is doing his job just fine as a few of kids at Melbourne do look pretty good, they go up and down the way you expect kids to.

On the other hand if he is expected to get them to a flag?...well I'd be chatting to Mick M right about now if I was Jim Stynes.

 

[tap_my_scott]

I guess Melbourne believes that the young players will automatically become good after a few years in the system and automatically turn them into a good team, regardless of the coach.

Wrong.

This will be Baileys last year, and next season Roos or Malthooue will be in charge.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Bailey must be held responsible for the way his boys just fell apart after quarter time. He couldn't respond with onfield changes and obviously couldn't get it in their heads either.

I'm not entirely convinced by the 'Malthouse or Roos would make the most of the young talent' argument either.

Looking increasingly to me like the young talent just isn't what its made out to be.

Watts certainly isn't.

 

[HFF]

Melbourne's performances are heading in the right direction under Bailey. Maybe not as fast as a lot of fans would like, but it's getting there. Sacking him now would be extremely counterproductive.

I agree with this.

The time is not right to part with Bailey.

The problem is, (coming out of contract) is that a one year extension would be a rubbish offer so they need to back him in and sign him for another 2 years, then make a decision as to where they are at. A one year deal will put far too much pressure on club and particularly coach.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Bailey must be held responsible for the way his boys just fell apart after quarter time. He couldn't respond with onfield changes and obviously couldn't get it in their heads either.

I'm not entirely convinced by the 'Malthouse or Roos would make the most of the young talent' argument either.

Looking increasingly to me like the young talent just isn't what its made out to be.

Watts certainly isn't.

I was half going to agree with you until that part. Watts has taken time but he's certainly much better than the last 2 years and he is showing signs of developing in to the forward we want him to be. You just threw that in there as if it was going to back up your point, yet it's completely wrong.

Nothing wrong with the kids - it's the coach and some of the senior players that need to lift.