How long can we carry Henderson up forward?

[Silvagnis]

Carlton beat the Cats with Henderson down, yet some think we can't win with him in the side.

Thank God we don't have to defend Koschitzke...

I can assure you playing a kid this badly out of form is not good for him.

He needs to go back to the 2s and kick some goals and take some grabs and come back confident. If he can't do that then he doesn't deserve to come back.

Playing the saints with the mass flood this week is even more a reason to give him a break as it will be a nightmare across half fwd this week.

Give the kid a chance to get some confidence.

We wouldn't want to play Henderson when he will have to come against that superstar defender in Dawson.

Grant is slighter than Henderson, yet he took 9 marks against St Kilda's defenders on Friday night.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

I disagree with the most of the people who cast votes, we need to give him the whole season in the first. He just need confidence and experience, he has a great attitude and I hope the MC stick with the kid. As for Waite he can still play in the serious alongside Hendo, Hendo and Waite in the forward line. It would help Hendo as well because Waite would take a lot of pressure off him.

Sorry mate, if he's not gonna earn his spot then out he goes. No use playing him for the sake of it and keeping someone who's worked really hard out because he's taking up that one extra spot. You perform, you play in the one's. You don't perform you play in the two's. Simple as that.

 

[Blue Bawls]

I can assure you playing a kid this badly out of form is not good for him.

He needs to go back to the 2s and kick some goals and take some grabs and come back confident. If he can't do that then he doesn't deserve to come back.

Playing the saints with the mass flood this week is even more a reason to give him a break as it will be a nightmare across half fwd this week.

Give the kid a chance to get some confidence.

As opposed to Collingwood's flood on Sunday? I kinda get what you're saying, but tall contested marking options break floods. Is he going to learn how to do that against paltry VFL teams or top eight AFL competition?

I was all for time in the twos and bringing in proven sweet hands Waite, but if we're ever going to complete our forward structure with a proper FF/CHF, this is the time (long-term development period, give the young'uns exposure to the real competition) to persevere with a potential talent in Hendo.

I guess that means we're tanking again!

 

[Jimthegreat]

I rest my case...

/face palm

And when you face palm do it hard. It'll might make you think a bit harder, Watch the game, Henderson has given us nothing and certainly can't play next week. White was ok forward. If Waite comes back we want flexibilty with him. Without White we are forced to play Waite at CHF. at least we can rotate them. Understand????????????????????? It's not that hard to work out the logic. KP forwards aren't exactly in abundance.

Anyone who thinks Henderson should play this week must be related to him.

 

[Blue Bawls]

And when you face palm do it hard. It'll might make you think a bit harder, Watch the game, Henderson has given us nothing and certainly can't play next week. White was ok forward. If Waite comes back we want flexibilty with him. Without White we are forced to play Waite at CHF. at least we can rotate them. Understand????????????????????? It's not that hard to work out the logic. KP forwards aren't exactly in abundance.

Anyone who thinks Henderson should play this week must be related to him.

Not really looking beyond next week are you...

 

[thylacine60]

Anyone who thinks Henderson should play this week must be related to him.

"You have a problem with that?"

 

[Blue Bawls]

"You have a problem with that?"

 

[NAUGHT5]

Not looking positive for Henderson so far!

IMO its looking fairly positive.

Hendo has been getting into good positions and looking dangerous at times, he's just been spilling marks and a few kicks have gone sideways.

You dont get drafted at 8 and rated so highly by your club if you cant take a mark and kick.
He obviously can, he is just lacking confidence.
A spell in the twos would do him good.
I think he'll be a fairly decent CHF for the CFC.

Look at Buddy. Struggled a bit early on but eventually something clicked.
Same with Riewoldt.
Not saying he will be as good as them, but i think the signs are positive.

 

[Sin City]

Would rather Waite comes in and plays as a rebounding defender this week. They'll use Fisher to try and run off the CHF and I think Hendo will have an important role to play in negating that run and not letting him go too far up the ground. Hope he stays in the team.

 

[Stamos]

Would rather Waite comes in and plays as a rebounding defender this week. They'll use Fisher to try and run off the CHF and I think Hendo will have an important role to play in negating that run and not letting him go too far up the ground. Hope he stays in the team.

Totally agree

 

[Jeremias]

Not looking positive for Henderson so far!

How many 20 year old key position forwards have outperformed him in recent seasons?

 

[Silvagnis]

How many 20 year old key position forwards have outperformed him in recent seasons?

That rising superstar Dawes who kicked just one goal and took just three marks against Carlton last year.

I'd be more worried if Henderson was into his fourth year like Brown and Reid who aren't tearing it up.

Or playing with a lack intensity in any of his hit outs this year.

This is Henderson's first season with Carlton who are rebuilding their forwardline, yet people expect matchwinning performances from Lachie.

Our slow ball movement didn't do our forwards any favours on Sunday.

 

[Bluebear]

I can assure you playing a kid this badly out of form is not good for him.

And you know him well enough to know this?
You are positive he drew no confidence from shutting Dawes down in the second half?
You know for a fact that being dropped won't crush him?
You know 0.

He needs to go back to the 2s and kick some goals and take some grabs and come back confident. If he can't do that then he doesn't deserve to come back.

So would you swap him for Josh Kennedy right now?
Oh.....wait......under your conditions Kennedy would have been banished forever.........oh well.

Playing the saints with the mass flood this week is even more a reason to give him a break as it will be a nightmare across half fwd this week.

Yeah......last thing we want is a big target across HF out the back of the zone to bring it to ground for the smalls to do their thing.

Give the kid a chance to get some confidence.

Right back at ya.
Was among our best in rounds 1-3, was good vs Crows, sacraficed his game vs Cats and had his surname been Riewoldt, would have got several frees for marking interference, and yes......had an average day vs Pies, which came after again, he got smashed in the opening minutes in a marking contest (no free kick - wrong coloured jumper) and struggled to move for 1-2 mins before coming off.

 

[Silvagnis]

I believe Hampson, Henderson, Waite and Warnock spent most of the summer in the rehab group to treat them with kid gloves.

Yet Casboult's fitness for playing AFL would be even further behind Henderson's.

How can anyone can start a poll that even considers dropping Henderson for Casboult or Wiggins is beyond me.

 

[Malifice]

How many 20 year old key position forwards have outperformed him in recent seasons?

In recent times (and I hate to say it) but Gumbleton looks the goods (leads well and clunks marks but fades from games) and Hurleys done pretty well as a young KPP.

Look, im not expecting him to tear it up or anything, and Im aware that he is devloping, but I do expect him to just perform a little more solidly than he has so far.

He hasnt worked out how to lead yet, and his contested marking isnt up to scratch.

Even putting those things aside, his kicking has been atrocious (a few lazy and unpressured kicks that went OOF, and missing targets far more often than not... especially in the backline), and his decison making is questionable.

Those last two faults in his game have nothing to do with being a devloping KPP. As a 20 year old proffesional football player, he should at least be able to make reasonable decisions, be able to measure his kicks and possess at least reasonable disposal of the footy.

Ratten has had to move him down back in the last two games (and fairly clearly due to the fact he wasnt offering anything up forward), and he hasnt exactly set the world alight down there either.

Im not saying he is a 'hack' or a 'spud' or any other such thing. And I dont think im being overly 'negative'.

Its just he needs time to develop (and its fair to say we all agree on this), and can do it just as well (perhaps even better without any pressure to perform) in the twos.

Im also of the opinion and you shouldnt be getting a game when you arent performing.

And in my opinion, he hasnt performed to the required standard in the past few weeks.

Im also of the opinion he is a little bit of a protected species in these parts. Any critisism of him (even when warranted IMO) leads to howls of traitor.

 

[blue_boys]

Gumbleton is a year older then Hendo and taken in the draft before him with a earlier pick. Yes Lachie didn't have the best game on sunday (but neither did most of the team).

I am not totally against giving him a spell in the twos but the criticism he gets on here and in the public is completely unfair. He only turned 20 in December last year and is playing CHF for a developing team. He isn't going to kick a bag of 4-5+ and he shouldn't be expected too. The more games we get into him the more and faster he learns and the sooner he will become a very good KP player for us. He was rated pretty much the best KP player in his draft and he needs time to develop his game and gain confidence at the highest level.

As J asked, what 20 year old KP forwards have out performed him in recent years? (Hurley has been alright, and will be a good player but every since the cabbie incident he looks to have lost confidence and isn't playing that well)

 

[Malifice]

Gumbleton is a year older then Hendo and taken in the draft before him with a earlier pick. Yes Lachie didn't have the best game on sunday (but neither did most of the team).

Im not really here to talk up Essendon players, but consider Gumbleton has also played less games than Hendo, and has had an injury interrupted start to his career.

I am not totally against giving him a spell in the twos but the criticism he gets on here and in the public is completely unfair. He only turned 20 in December last year and is playing CHF for a developing team. He isn't going to kick a bag of 4-5+ and he shouldn't be expected too.

I dont know about anyone else, but my critisisms werent directed at his goal output.

His disposals, marking, leading and decsion making look poor.

Id be happy if he was clunking a few marks, making sound decisions and execution with his disposal, and leading well.

These things he is not doing.

And dont give me the 'he has been acting as a decoy' argument.

The more games we get into him the more and faster he learns and the sooner he will become a very good KP player for us.

Why shouldnt he be getting those games and developing in the twos?

****s sake, we are happy devloping Casboult in the twos, and Yarran last year.

Why is Henderson such a protected species?

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Henderson is struggling.

I'm ok if the MC persist with him or drop him. Good cases for both sides in terms of development. I tend to think (guess) that he was shown up a little in the Pies game and he knows it, or would be aware of it. This should mean a rest or a spell in the 2s for his own sake.

Whether he plays this week should be 50/50 given his output over the year. All depends on his personality type and how he would respond to each scenario. The MC will be thinking of ongoing development/2011 when making a decision given this is a development year as a whole.

I'll be saying the same with Setanta if he has a couple of bad games. We need both to develop further if we want to challenge in 2011+.

Def a fair thread/debate and those denying he might need a rest are deluded!

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

I dont know about anyone else, but my critisisms werent directed at his goal output.

His disposals, marking, leading and decsion making look poor.

Id be happy if he was clunking a few marks, making sound decisions and execution with his disposal, and leading well.

It's a tough gig on here if you try and make an open but fair comment on a Carlton player which has negative connotations. Just kicking off the post ensures a number of posters on here start with the opposite view by default.

Then the thread degenerates away from the core topic and ends up on discussions about Gumbleton even though it was provided as a minor supporting argument and nothing to do with the key point of the thread. Rinse and repeat these type of minors arguments and you have the thread derailed and frustrating.

Sorry for derailing the thread lol! Back on topic!

Blind freddy can see Hendo is struggling! But we also have faith in him for the future whether he has a spell or not!

 

[thylacine60]

Some insightful, balanced stuff there, Dustin. Well done.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Im not really here to talk up Essendon players, but consider Gumbleton has also played less games than Hendo, and has had an injury interrupted start to his career.



I dont know about anyone else, but my critisisms werent directed at his goal output.

His disposals, marking, leading and decsion making look poor.

Id be happy if he was clunking a few marks, making sound decisions and execution with his disposal, and leading well.

These things he is not doing.

And dont give me the 'he has been acting as a decoy' argument.



Why shouldnt he be getting those games and developing in the twos?

****s sake, we are happy devloping Casboult in the twos, and Yarran last year.

Why is Henderson such a protected species?

I say the seconds has been instrumental in players development over the years, I remember players such as Koutoufides, Fevola, Ohailpin, Christou learning the game in the seconds and not being a permanent fixture in the seniors until they have earn't their spot or retained their spot after rehearsing for what is required at the senior level. Also dont forget how players such as Russell, Dal Santo and Milne have turned it around after having an opportunity to take their medicine in the seconds and rehearsing specific roles or area's of concern before being promoted again.

Probably thousands of better examples but these are just the ones that come straight to mind.

The club should not being trying to protect Henderson because of the trade situation if thats what they are doing, they should be trying to fast track his development to the level we require him to play.

 

[mac25]

And you know him well enough to know this?
You are positive he drew no confidence from shutting Dawes down in the second half?
You know for a fact that being dropped won't crush him?
You know 0.

So would you swap him for Josh Kennedy right now?
Oh.....wait......under your conditions Kennedy would have been banished forever.........oh well.

Yeah......last thing we want is a big target across HF out the back of the zone to bring it to ground for the smalls to do their thing.

Right back at ya.
Was among our best in rounds 1-3, was good vs Crows, sacraficed his game vs Cats and had his surname been Riewoldt, would have got several frees for marking interference, and yes......had an average day vs Pies, which came after again, he got smashed in the opening minutes in a marking contest (no free kick - wrong coloured jumper) and struggled to move for 1-2 mins before coming off.

l would suggest Henderson would have gained very little confidence from his stint in defence last week, as to be very honest he was ordinary down back also, at least one sub-standard kicking error, getting caught in tackles when he had the handball option, looked slow at times, signs of a player down on form and confidence.

l am certainly of the belief he has some talent and he will improve over the next two years, but he is simply not ready for what is being demanded of him, the only thing that will save him this week, is the lack of viable alternatives to play as a key forward.

 

[Malifice]

It's a tough gig on here if you try and make an open but fair comment on a Carlton player which has negative connotations. Just kicking off the post ensures a number of posters on here start with the opposite view by default.

I actually dont blame the 'positive' posters for being overly defensive and protective os cretain players at certain times.

I lay the blame more at the feet of idiots like SOSOSOSOS, DBLUES etc (and the other negative posters) who regurgitate the same negative crap over and over again.

It creates an atmosphere where youre either with us or against us.

I was quite touchy and overly hostile myself with all the constant critisisms directed at JR a while back. Perhaps too touchy in hindsight. I just got so sick to death of all the constant bagging of the kid, that I came to forgive his mistakes quickly, and instead just tried to focus on his good points. Any critisism of him was met with anger. Even some of the justifed critisisms.

Every player is open to critisism, as long as its both fair, balanced, proportionate and (importantly) warranted.

Henderson is (in my opinion, and for reasons I have outlined) struggling. And I dont have a problem with struggling players getting demoted to the twos.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Good points Mal.

Think yours is the first case of writer lisp I've seen on here...critisisms

 

[thylacine60]

Good points Mal.

Think yours is the first case of writer lisp I've seen on here...critisisms

wacist!